It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Biden calls paying higher taxes a patriotic act

page: 1
1
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 09:48 AM
link   
news.yahoo.com...


WASHINGTON - Democratic vice presidential candidate Joe Biden said Thursday that paying more in taxes is the patriotic thing to do for wealthier Americans. In a new TV ad that repeats widely debunked claims about the Democratic tax plan, the Republican campaign calls Obama's tax increases "painful."

Under the economic plan proposed by Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama, people earning more than $250,000 a year would pay more in taxes while those earning less — the vast majority of American taxpayers — would receive a tax cut.

Although Republican John McCain claims that Obama would raise taxes, the independent Tax Policy Center and other groups conclude that four out of five U.S. households would receive tax cuts under Obama's proposals.




This is not a bash-Biden thread. This should be a discussion on a policy set forth by Joe Biden on whether paying higher taxes makes you a patriot. On the opposite end of the spectrum, does paying no taxes make you less of a patriot?

My opinion is that it is more patriotic to create jobs, support your family, and use that money for economic purposes, than to hand it over to the government. The question should be "Is my hard earned money better in my pocket or in the government coffers."



 


Edit of thread title to accurately reflect the news story. Also added an appropriate snippet from the article that better reflects the nature of the piece.

[edit on 18-9-2008 by SkepticOverlord]




posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 10:21 AM
link   
Being Patriotic comes in different forms. Personally I don't think paying or not paying taxes makes any person patriotic. Patriotic is when you do something for your country cause you want to not because it is a law. Warren Buffet feels that Obama should increase taxes on the rich because people like him pay too little. Why should he have to wait for government to pass a law to pay more? Instead he should be patriotic an ante up to fund a program for a year or donate to the National debt without being mandated to do it. Or maybe he should volunteer his time to set up the government budget in an effort to reduce spending and pay off the National debt ASAP. Now that I would consider to be patriotic.



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 10:44 AM
link   

Originally posted by RRconservative
This should be a discussion on a policy set forth by Joe Biden on whether paying higher taxes makes you a patriot. On the opposite end of the spectrum, does paying no taxes make you less of a patriot?


Paying taxes isn't the ONLY way to be patriotic, but yes, it is one way. To put one's hand in their own pocket and give back to the country that has made a wealthy person's wealth possible, is a very patriotic thing to do, especially when the country is in NEED of help. I dare say that it's a lot more meaningful than putting one's hand on their heart while singing a song.

Conversely, paying taxes doesn't necessarily make a person a patriot.

I think you might be reading too much into what Biden said. Especially if you are interpreting it to mean that paying taxes is the only way to show patriotism and that not paying taxes means you aren't a patriot.



The question should be "Is my hard earned money better in my pocket or in the government coffers."


If you make over $250,000 a year, which is the group whose taxes would rise, most likely, you're not producing anything. You're most likely managing someone else's funds, pushing some sort of paper, or watching your income flow in while you're on your yacht in the Caribbean. In other words, it's hardly "hard-earned".

I would say YOUR hard-earned money is better off in your pocket providing for yourself and your family. But I would guess, under Obama's plan, your taxes would actually go down.


Correct me if I'm wrong.



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 10:52 AM
link   
I would gladly pay more taxes to fix the roads, bridges, transportation system, education and HEALTH CARE rather than pay for wars, bribes in the way of foreign aid and boondoggle projects, kickbacks to war profiteers and corporate welfare/subsidies.

Helping the American infrastructure is patriotic.

[edit on 18-9-2008 by whaaa]



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 11:02 AM
link   
Paying our FAIR share of taxes is patriotic.

Paying higher taxes just because a politician wants more money to play with is not patriotic. It's just being a doormat for the government.

Therefore, i disagree with the statement 'pay HIGHER taxes to be patriotic'.

I say, cut waste in spending and my fair share of taxes - which I'm already paying - shouldn't be higher. A PATRIOTIC politician would understand that and do that for us.



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 11:29 AM
link   
reply to post by RRconservative
 


Has corporate tax breaks really created new jobs in the past 8 years? Have our families' dollar gone as far in the past 8 years? Has the trickle effect really shown itself to work in the past 8 years (or ever
)?

The idea that giving tax breaks will give corporations more money, which will lead to higher pay wages for lower level workers and lower prices is completely baloney. It is time for the wealthy in this country to step up and be patriotic. To be fair and honest. Practice ethical business - that includes the fraud that has been occurring in sub-prime mortgages and payment of employees.

Executive pay raises are rising faster than inflation, while the lower class is stuck with Clinton era wages.

Something has to give, and when it does, this economy will fix itself. As long as the greed is allowed to continue with the wealthy, the middle class and below will suffer, and so will the economy.

reply to post by FlyersFan
 


I disagree, but we always do.



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 11:36 AM
link   
I see no one took the time to read the article:


Under the economic plan proposed by Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama, people earning more than $250,000 a year would pay more in taxes while those earning less — the vast majority of American taxpayers — would receive a tax cut.

Although Republican John McCain claims that Obama would raise taxes, the independent Tax Policy Center and other groups conclude that four out of five U.S. households would receive tax cuts under Obama's proposals.


Nice hit piece.



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 11:37 AM
link   
Biden can say things about taxes that don't sit well with some, but he does make sense. What doesn't make sense is the policy of the past 8 years (thank you Dubyah) where the govt spent like crazy thus wasting any potential internal revenue for many years going forward. I would like to be patriotic and actually pay more taxes, but it pains me greatly to realize that my family is in fact paying for the mistakes and crimes of the Republican clique.



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 11:37 AM
link   
reply to post by intrepid
 


Just look at the thread title:

"Joe Biden policy...pay higher taxes to be patriotic"

Obviously set up in a negative way to make it seem ridiculous. When put it context, it makes sense and isn't a stretch.

However, if you were to call him/her out for this, they'd just claim that you are being biased.



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 11:44 AM
link   
reply to post by Sublime620
 


It's only in context if the OP and/or everyone else here makes over $250,000/yr. That's the demographic that Biden is addressing.



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 11:48 AM
link   

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
To put one's hand in their own pocket and give back to the country that has made a wealthy person's wealth possible, is a very patriotic thing to do, especially when the country is in NEED of help.



Since when have I ever given to my government? I've given to people and charities but never to the government. See, the government has this great scheme in place called the IRS and the IRS who is tasked with receiving what we all give has no shortage of armed soldiers to come murder you should you miss a tithing. Consequently the government that spends all of what we give shares the same luxury.

I have never given a cent to them. The just take.

You'd be okay if the Red Cross came and kicked in your door and held a gun to your head because you didn't give? What's the difference between the government doing it and any other thug doing it? The government owns the jails. Fewer things are more evil than a government with the power to steal at will and is willing and able to murder just to collect.



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 11:48 AM
link   
So let me get this right: The Patriotic thing to do is give MORE money to the fed reserve and do your part in the bailout of these swindlers who have lost BILLIONS of dollars?

What a load of complete and utter BS!!!

The patriotic thing to do would be to go up to DC and tar and feather all these jackasses who have stolen our future.

The patriotic thing to do would be to stage another "Boston Tea Party"

The patriotic thing to do would be to whipe out nearly ALL taxes from the books.


Boy the Dems sure don't want to get into the white house do they?



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 11:53 AM
link   
reply to post by intrepid
 


I make 30K a year or less. Not being wealthy doesn't make theft right. Even if lord government were to directly take money from somebody making $250K and hand me the cash I would still object. It is wrong to use threats of force and imprisonment to gain ones property. That's extortion and theft.



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 12:12 PM
link   
reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 

That's sort of my thought as well. Biden apparently thinks of himself as some sort of Robin Hood. Who here honestly believes that raising taxes on the rich will improve their lives? You know what the government will do with more money? It will grow bigger and want more taxes.

If you've paid attention to local politics any at all I'm sure you've seen local city councils vote to give a large corporate a tax break so it will move to their town. Why? Because it creates jobs. When has increasing taxes ever created more jobs? Never! Sure it helps to pay for more welfare, but is that what we want? A welfare state?

For some reason people lose their sense of logic when it comes to national politics and the common sense that prevails in local community decisions goes out the window.


What did Donald Trump say last night on Larry King about this?


Well, I'll tell you, the people that create the jobs and the people that really create a lot of things in the country, they're going to be taxed into oblivion. And I'm not even sure when you look really at his tax, I think everybody's going to be taxed a lot more. So I like the fact that taxes won't be raised under McCain.
www.cnn.com...


Donald Trump is now endorsing McCain. Any surprise there?

Democrats, please continue raising taxes and then scratch your heads when all the jobs are outsourced overseas and major companies move to off shore accounts in the Cayman islands. I guess we'll wait until all the car factories in the U.S. shut down and move to Mexico before we change anything.

[edit on 18-9-2008 by dbates]



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 12:15 PM
link   
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 




Paying taxes isn't the ONLY way to be patriotic, but yes, it is one way. To put one's hand in their own pocket and give back to the country that has made a wealthy person's wealth possible, is a very patriotic thing to do, especially when the country is in NEED of help.


Yes, to put one's hand in their own pocket and give back IS patriotic, but not when it is forced and when it will be wasted.

The way to give back is to give DIRECTLY to those hurting so that the money isn't being squandered on red tape.

There is nothing 'patriotic' about the government requiring you to pay more money.

Jemison



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 12:26 PM
link   
reply to post by RRconservative
 


Perhaps we will be enlightened by the reaction of the Hollywood elite as to the identities of the true patriots residing there.

Day by day, this election campaign becomes funner and funner.



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 12:28 PM
link   
reply to post by Jemison
 


Oh, perhaps I misunderstood.

So it is good to tax the poor at the same ratio as the rich? Because that's what we are discussing here.

Should the poor pay 3,000 out of their 14,000 salary because the upper class doesn't want to shell out a few extra dollars? Greed is the issue here.

The trickle down effect is a failure. It always has been. It doesn't work. The money doesn't trickle down. Case in point: If the money would trickle down anyway, then why would the upper class mind just avoiding the middle man and paying the money straight to the government?

The idea of the trickle down effect is that corporations will prosper so they will pass the money down (instead of lining their own pockets :lol
. So instead of taking the scenic route to getting money to the work force, why not have the upper class pay that amount directly, and that way we don't have to trust that they won't just pocket the cash - hint: They will pocket the cash if you let them.


Democrats, please continue raising taxes and then scratch your heads when all the jobs are outsourced overseas and major companies move to off shore accounts in the Cayman islands. I guess we'll wait until all the car factories in the U.S. shut down and move to Mexico before we change anything.


Funny. The conservatives have been in just as much control over policy (if not more) over the democrats for the past 16 years. How is it that you can place any blame directly on them?

1992-2000
Executive Branch - Liberal
Congress - Conservative

2000-2004
Executive Branch - Conservative
Congress - Conservative

2004-2008
Executive Branch - Conservative
Congress - Liberal (barely)

Quit passing the buck. Blaming everything on liberals is not going to work here.

[edit on 18-9-2008 by Sublime620]



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 12:34 PM
link   
reply to post by Sublime620
 



So it is good to tax the poor at the same ratio as the rich? Because that's what we are discussing here.


No. That is what you want to talk about. The thread is whether paying taxes is patriotic or not. Some people are using that as an excuse to bring in Bush tax plan.

Do you think it is patriotic? I yet to see you go either way.



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 12:39 PM
link   
Our tax dollars are being misappropriated (stolen) at an alarming rate now. This is not about "left/right", it's about filling up the coffers again so more of 'them' can loot the American taxpayer through no-bid government contracts, manufactured wars, kickbacks, bribes, etc.....

"Democrats" and "Republicans" are just acting out a script, and behind the scenes they're all getting filthy rich off the braindead masses. I'm amazed that people are still buying into this false left/right paradigm!

Peace



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 12:43 PM
link   

Originally posted by dbates
Who here honestly believes that raising taxes on the rich will improve their lives?


Not everyone thinks in terms of "What will this do for ME"? I think more in terms of what it will do for my country and the people in my country who have been taken for granted and taken advantage of.

That's the problem here is everyone who opposes this is thinking in terms of themselves. It's a pretty selfish way to look at it if you ask me.

Our country is in trouble and I don't mean the economic bailouts. For years, the government of BushCo has protected the corporations, given them tax cuts so they can have the million-dollar bonuses and the CEOs can afford their yachts, while stepping all over the backs of the regular guy.

The taxes from the middle class have gone to pay for a useless, illegal and immoral war, while the big wigs in the corporations sit back and rake in the money.

The cost of living has gone up and up and up, but the salary of the regular guy has barely moved. The big lending giants go crazy finding ways to lend money to people who can't afford it and then when it all goes to hell like a house of cards, they cry to the government to bail them out and Bush DOES IT!!! They screw up royally and then the government puts a bandaid on it and uses US to make it all better.

We didn't just wake up in this shape one day. The Bush economic policies are what got us here. We have to do something different to get out of this hell-hole that the last 8 years have put us in.

You can blame it on high taxes, but the fact is Bush has given tax cuts to the wealthy and spent more of OUR money than ever! Who thinks that's a good idea?

And now, here we are. This is what we have to deal with. We have to get out of it somehow. We're not starting with a level field. Bush has got us in a deep hole.



For some reason people lose their sense of logic when it comes to national politics and the common sense that prevails in local community decisions goes out the window.


I couldn't agree more.



Donald Trump is now endorsing McCain. Any surprise there?


Of course it's no surprise. He thinks like you apparently do. "What will this do for me"? He doesn't want to pay more taxes. No matter what happens to the economy, no matter how many starve, lose their jobs, their homes, he's going to be fine. No matter how many children are without health care and starving on the street, good old Donald Trump is going to be just dandy and if he's not, he can file for bankruptcy and recover.

He picks the person who is most in line with his best interest. The person who will "take care" of him. Of course he's going to pick McCain!



Democrats, please continue raising taxes and then scratch your heads when all the jobs are outsourced overseas and major companies move to off shore accounts in the Cayman islands. I guess we'll wait until all the car factories in the U.S. shut down and move to Mexico before we change anything.


You can hardly blame Democrats for outsourcing jobs! But I'm not surprised you made this about blaming the Democrats. You always do.



new topics

top topics



 
1
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join