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Biden calls paying higher taxes a patriotic act

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posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 08:30 PM
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reply to post by mabus325
 


Oh well. Then he didn't file for an enormous tax break like the others who did donate.

Who cares? Do you actually have a point or are you just throwing a bunch of crap to see what sticks?




posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 08:33 PM
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reply to post by Sublime620
 


I have stated my point. Democrats are hypocrites. They love to be generous with other people's money.

If Biden wants people to pay higher taxes, he should be the first to pay them; If he wants good Catholics to take care of people, he should set an example.

Any other questions?



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 08:40 PM
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reply to post by mabus325
 


The only thing you've accomplished is slinging mud. I'm sure there are plenty of conservative newspapers or radio shows that you can call in and get a pat on the back for.

Here? No. You're not going to convince me, or anyone else with a brain, that he's a bad guy because he doesn't donate to charity for a tax break and public relations.



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 11:28 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

If you make over $250,000 a year, which is the group whose taxes would rise, most likely, you're not producing anything. You're most likely managing someone else's funds, pushing some sort of paper, or watching your income flow in while you're on your yacht in the Caribbean. In other words, it's hardly "hard-earned".


Who are you honestly to judge what is "hard earned"? Forget the fact that you just threw small business owners under the bus. Busting your ass in school, etc, working hard to get to that point, is where all that hard work comes from. So in that instance, I would say it is hard earned, all political bias aside.

Furthermore, what this does is punish the rich for being rich. For young college students who aspire to make money, an obama administration is scary thought. Instead of punishing people for leading successful lives (I think it is called the American Dream) we should promote such idealisms. With lots of hard work, and plenty of determination, you to can achieve such aspirations of making money.




[edit on 18-9-2008 by West Coast]



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 11:44 PM
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Originally posted by West Coast

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

If you make over $250,000 a year, which is the group whose taxes would rise, most likely, you're not producing anything. You're most likely managing someone else's funds, pushing some sort of paper, or watching your income flow in while you're on your yacht in the Caribbean. In other words, it's hardly "hard-earned".


Who are you honestly to judge what is "hard earned"? Forget the fact that you just threw small business owners under the bus. Busting your ass in school, etc, working hard to get to that point, is where all that hard work comes from. So in that instance, I would say it is hard earned, all political bias aside.

Furthermore, what this does is punish the rich for being rich. For young college students who aspire to make money, an obama administration is scary thought. Instead of punishing people for leading successful lives (I think it is called the American Dream) we should promote such idealisms. With lots of hard work, and plenty of determination, you to can achieve such aspirations of making money.




[edit on 18-9-2008 by West Coast]


West Coast I totally agree. Benevolent Heritic, good luck buying a yacht on 250k. Its not that much money.

I think if Joe Biden wants to be patriotic maybe he should find ways to make the government smaller and quit redistributing my wealth (or the lack there of). The government is ridiculously large and expensive. Here where I live the biggest building is for the city and county government. It is 7 stories high full of government. It is insanity. I dont understand why government has to have a hand in every area of our lives. I would like to see the government shrink to half its size in the next five years. Yeah like that is going to happen. Could you imagine how much money could go to the national debt or how much money could go into the economy if the EXPENSE of government was cut in half?

[edit on 18-9-2008 by justsomeboreddude]



posted on Sep, 19 2008 @ 12:25 AM
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Originally posted by justsomeboreddude

West Coast I totally agree. Benevolent Heritic, good luck buying a yacht on 250k. Its not that much money.


Yes, just to add, 250K is upper middle class income level.



posted on Sep, 19 2008 @ 12:36 AM
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Originally posted by West Coast

Originally posted by justsomeboreddude

West Coast I totally agree. Benevolent Heritic, good luck buying a yacht on 250k. Its not that much money.


Yes, just to add, 250K is upper middle class income level.



Exactly. Under Obama and Bidens plan why should you even strive to be successful? So you can be a better patriot and let them redistribute it and waste it? I think if they raise taxes much more I am just going to check out and go on welfare. I can eat, live in a decent neighborhood and get free medical care for my family while I sit on my butt and watch Jerry Springer all day. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

There is something wrong when a communist country like China is more business friendly and capitalistic then the good ole USA. Instead of going on welfare I would like to pack up my stuff and go over there and have a little fun being a corporate capitalist pig that creates jobs and a better life for people.

I can sell my stuff through those evil greedy bastards at WalMart who found a better way to purchase, distribute, and manufacture their products to the point that they kicked the living crap out of their competition. They enable me to provide a better life for my family on less money, and they created a bunch of wealth for their investors. They are just awful. Corporate pigs.

[edit on 19-9-2008 by justsomeboreddude]



posted on Sep, 19 2008 @ 01:10 AM
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I will just repeat what I said in another thread, as I feel this needs to be said.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I've recently decided, as a former hardcore Obama supporter, to drop support for Obama and Biden. He was one of the men responsible for the creation of the Patriot Act, He voted many times to fund the farce that is Bush's War on Terror(which I like to call the "War on Terra") and I'm willing to bet that he has a very good idea as to what he is funding. Barack Obama, as a man who is said to be qualified to teach Constitutional law, has broken the Constitution by allowing the president power to spy on all of us. He voted for the Patriot Act, and ratified the second version, he voted YES on the new FISA amendments that allow pretty much blanket surveillance on all of us, which is illegal under the Constitution...These amendments infringe or eliminate Habeas Corpus, the 1st amendment, the 4th the 10th, the 14th, and a few others which I will not get into here. Biden and Obama betrayed me. Simple as that. Many here on this board know how much of a supporter I was, but I just can't drink that kool-aid anymore than I can chug McPalins'. I cannot tell you how hurt I felt, like breaking up with someone you really care for, to realize that the man "Making history" is doing so because the history was planned from the start. McCain is the overt evil guy in this lights, camera, action, made-for-TV-Drama, and Obama is the evil with a warm smile and message of hope he didn't intend on keeping to in the first place. And no I'm not an RP supporter either. Just a tired young American who is tired of being lied to. I am 24 years old, I grew up thinking this country was a great land of opportunity with a proud history of heroism, generosity, and with Liberty and Justice for all... I just don't know anymore...And I want that feeling back, I want to get back together with my girl, the beautiful United States of America...The country that took me in as a political refugee, and turned me into an American patriot, willing to bleed for her, so that my blood may give color and meaning to the words of the of the Constitution that have faded with the erosion of time.


To me this issue is no different. Those taxes are going to China, they are going to bailouts...And it is all under their watch. There is no difference between these parties...I thought at first that Obama could be a shinning light from within the Democratic party, like Kucinich..But this just isn't the case. I urge and challenge other people, like myself, who supported Obama through all the other accusations and charges to look into this...And realize that we are being taken advantage of.

Voting records are very telling.



posted on Sep, 19 2008 @ 01:34 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Ha Ha Ha....

You think that the equivalent of 250,000 dollars a year would lead to sitting on your yacht in the Caribbean?

Maybe the mississippi river on a 20 ft. fishing boat for a week a year.

Please, understand that in many areas of the country, $250,000 a year is not a lot. Not if you have a mortgage in Santa Barbara, and had 2 or 3 kids.

And MANY people who make that kind of dough are "producing" or actually "working" (which is what I think you meant) jobs, BH. What do you think of tenured professors, or Joe Biden, or federal firefighters who work peak season, or oil riggers, or the many THOUSANDS of jobs that create that sort of income? Lets not forget small business owners, where this kind of profits means two or three employees, and all your own labor.

This, of course, is not to mention all of the jobs that pay 150,000 dollars a year, where two professionals/business owners/dentists who get married would find themselves heavily penalized.

Of course not. These people all have yachts, right?

The fact is, YOU may think that this is a lot of money, but I think it is a reward of hard labor, and long studies.

Sure, some scum-bags slip through the cracks; However, I choose to champion success, not despise the lucky.

Remember, I will GLADLY send you the tax records to show that I made a 1/30th of the income of Biden over the last 10 years, but donated 3 (!!!!!!) times as much to charity!

I have never bragged about this, and never will.
It is a pittance; hence the point.

This is all about being able to screw those that many feel reaped rewards they did not deserve.

Long Live Capitalism!!!



posted on Sep, 19 2008 @ 02:09 AM
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Originally posted by West Coast

Originally posted by justsomeboreddude

West Coast I totally agree. Benevolent Heritic, good luck buying a yacht on 250k. Its not that much money.


Yes, just to add, 250K is upper middle class income level.



People who make ~250K are in the top 5% of the income bracket how is that in the upper middle class? The term middle class is definitional, stating that those in the middle range of the income class. 90% of Americans make $100,000 or less. By definition middle class would be the 40-80K income range.
I agree that 250k probably doesnt buy what it used to but this is a result of inflation and stagnant wage growth. But if you feel like 250k is not very much money imagine how the bottom 90% making under $100,000 feel.



posted on Sep, 19 2008 @ 03:23 AM
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Is it patriotic to pay taxes? My concern is with income taxes.

We need to ask ourselves this question first.

What are taxes?

What are taxes when the government can practically print money? Where did this new found billions of dollars for bailouts come from? There were no congressional appropriation for these bailouts. This money was pulled out of someones bunghole.

The next question is...

The permanent income tax system was started in 1913, exactly how did the USA operate before 1913?

The USA expanded from 13 colonies to a coast to coast nation. The USA successfully fought wars against the superpowers at the time, Great Britain and Spain along with other powers like Mexico. The USA was able to drive the Native Americans from their lands and take out pirates that were raiding the sea lanes. The USA was able to become an industrial giant. The USA was able to fight through, overcome, and rebuild from a Civil War that devastated the country.

If technology were equalized, the USA of 1912 and the USA of present would be almost the same in terms of raw power. Oh wait the USA of 1912 didn't have super high debt.

My thoughts on income taxes is that they are not a way to fund government and carry society.

Income taxes are nothing but a form of control. The government got along fine without them and now the government is bloated and is seemingly everywhere.

Income taxes are the partner of inflation. It isn't a coincidence that the 16th amendment and the Federal Reserve was started about the same exact time.

Whats the point of me paying money that I had to work for when the government can just pull the same money out of thin air?

What is the point of taxes when the government purposefully devalues the currency anyways?

Whats the point of American corporations paying some of the highest tax rates in the world only to just pass it along . Not only am I paying my own income taxes but I am paying the income taxes of oil companies when I buy gas in order to go to work. No wonder the government promotes an environment that makes oil more expensive.

Maybe bigger questions should be asked to our esteemed politicians.

Is it patriotic to grant someone the benefits of some bailout or welfare scheme at the expense of the American people?

Is it patriotic to expand the government power and size by rampant spending an borrowing that further devalues the currency?

Income taxes are not patriotic, they are a fraud.



posted on Sep, 19 2008 @ 04:58 AM
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True patriots refuse to pay the tyrannic income tax.

Sadly there are too few real patriots left in the USA to make any sort of stand... it is therefore best to just pay the blood tithe quietly.



posted on Sep, 19 2008 @ 05:20 AM
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Originally posted by Sublime620
reply to post by centurion1211
 


Waste and greed?

All you have done is show that you have no fundamental understanding of the subject.


If you don't think, excuse me know, that much of our tax money is wasted by greedy politicians, then you are the one demonstrating your incompetance here.

Fundemental truth: Bigger (tax funded) government is not the answer to all problems.



posted on Sep, 19 2008 @ 05:51 AM
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Originally posted by mabus325
Biden now has justified higher taxes by making it a duty — as a Catholic:
“Catholic social doctrine as I was taught it ....


The church he goes to is just around the corner from my house.
We go to mass there on occassion.

I have NEVER heard the priest there (or in any Mass in Delaware) tell people anything even close to what Biden is claiming. Never.



posted on Sep, 19 2008 @ 07:05 AM
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He was actually saying wealthy Americans should pay more of their share and in essence this would also tie in with rolling back the Bush Tax cuts which really cut slack on people making millions of dollars in proportion to average Americans, I mean I'm no rocket science but you can't cut taxes and also spend haphazardly in a trillions of dollar deficit situation and there is a War and security to be worried about, where is the money going to come from? you can't have your cake and eat it, I think a lot of people need at least econ 101, also the thread title is misleading I noticed Fox News attempted to spin what Biden said and then generalize his statement, trickle down economics is not proving to create more jobs for the most part, if there are profits the ceos and other high paid executives get the money and keep it for themselves as bonuses, raises and incentives, hell a lot of companies not only do not hire more people they barely give employees bonuses if at all, also this whole bailout and government subsidized housing solution is not going to help taxpayers, it is once again going to put money in the pockets of the Wall Street firms and Bankers as profits again, it really is proxy theft of the Treasury endorsed by the government, the average American has been screwed and duped once again.



[edit on 19-9-2008 by phinubian]



posted on Sep, 19 2008 @ 07:14 AM
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reply to post by phinubian
 


Do you think people who advocate paying higher taxes should first pay higher taxes?



posted on Sep, 19 2008 @ 07:45 AM
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I sure do, but remember Joe Biden released his net worth and tax statements, it is around $150,000, in some place a trailer in a trailer park would be worth more, this is nowhere near the 250,000 a year or millions and up tax tiers and breaks given by the Bush Tax cut , so I guess he would if he was rich and so would I, but me I'm not rich so I don't sympathize with multi millionaire objections to pay more or their share, nor with republicans who continually tow this line for some reason when in a lot of circumstance many of them are not rich themselves but insist on using the (speaking of the democrats) "they will raise taxes" slogan instead of focusing on who they will raise taxes on, the wealthy and millionaire execs, wall street firms and greedy business that no matter how much they make will never increase the payroll headcount but yet keep the profits for themselves.



posted on Sep, 19 2008 @ 07:47 AM
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Originally posted by justsomeboreddude
Benevolent Heritic, good luck buying a yacht on 250k. Its not that much money.


This proves my point. $250K is "not that much money".
No, not if you buy a house in Santa Barbara! Who is it again that says poor people should live within their means? Ugh!


If you make $227,000 to $600K a year, with Obama, your taxes would go up $12. That's TWELVE DOLLARS!
Forgive me if I can't muster up any sympathy.

Source

$250K isn't that much money...
That's a good one!



posted on Sep, 19 2008 @ 08:31 AM
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Originally posted by iamcamouflage

Originally posted by West Coast

Originally posted by justsomeboreddude

West Coast I totally agree. Benevolent Heritic, good luck buying a yacht on 250k. Its not that much money.


Yes, just to add, 250K is upper middle class income level.



People who make ~250K are in the top 5% of the income bracket how is that in the upper middle class? The term middle class is definitional, stating that those in the middle range of the income class. 90% of Americans make $100,000 or less. By definition middle class would be the 40-80K income range.
I agree that 250k probably doesnt buy what it used to but this is a result of inflation and stagnant wage growth. But if you feel like 250k is not very much money imagine how the bottom 90% making under $100,000 feel.


Well whoever said increasing the taxes on people making more that 250k would make the lives of the bottom 90% better. Higher taxes on the "rich", doesnt necessarily map to better quality lives for the folks on the bottom. Why dont we make the tax system fair and we all pay the exact same amount because we get the exact same services offered. Well actually "rich" people should pay less because they use less government services. Where other than taxes do you pay more for the same thing that everyone else is getting, or actually you pay more to get less.



posted on Sep, 19 2008 @ 08:35 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by justsomeboreddude
Benevolent Heritic, good luck buying a yacht on 250k. Its not that much money.


This proves my point. $250K is "not that much money".
No, not if you buy a house in Santa Barbara! Who is it again that says poor people should live within their means? Ugh!



If you make $227,000 to $600K a year, with Obama, your taxes would go up $12. That's TWELVE DOLLARS!
Forgive me if I can't muster up any sympathy.

Source

$250K isn't that much money...
That's a good one!


Because its $12 on top of the 10s of thousands I already pay. Enough is enough. Obama people always like to use that $12 number but look how far it shifts the more you make. Plus the fact that it is just $12 more dollars the government can piss away. It is not like they spend it real wisely. I would rather have the $12 in my pocket and by groceries for someone who needs them. I can do that with no administrative overhead.




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