Liberalism.

Right, first off i apologise if this has been posted anywhere else. Secondly i should explain something about myself. I'm quite young, 20 years old, from the east of England and will shortly be going to University in the United Kingdom to study Classics. I consider myself liberal, i am an atheist and (in the U.K) i believe in the separation of church and state. I am also in favour of the European project. Furthermore, i'm a secularist.

Right, my point is after reading quite a few posts on here is i'm worried. Worried by the intolerance shown toward liberals in general - we seem to be equated as something near to satan worshipers by a vocal section of posters here. I'm interested as to why this is?

Furthermore, why are those who show 'liberal beliefs' stigmatised in American society and by the right wing press - surely this hatred is counter productive?

Thank you for your time.


Oh and i'm a first time poster, but a long time reader :-)

[edit on 4-9-2008 by Venit]

reply to post by Venit

In my country, where I was born (EU), the liberals are ruined everything. They're supported pedophilia, young criminals, criminal and killer minorities in the name of liberalism. They tried to destroy my country's cultural heritage, they tried to give more rights to the minorities, while they wanted to push the natives into the background. They're supporting drugs, supporting anything which are against christian or any other moral values. Honestly, do you believe that any liberals have moral values? Do you believe that NORMAL people are going to tolerate these morons? Think again.

Liberalism = Globalism, lies, delusions, thieving, killing and destruction of cultural traits and country's past.



[edit on 4-9-2008 by Sheridan]

I know "liberal" and "conservative" have different definitions over there but right now girlfriend is at work at a university and is being harassed by "liberal" who have surrounded her desk and continue to belittle her. So....... there's the "liberal" tolerance at work I guess.

Liberalism is a strawman for conservatives to beat up on and is used to marginalize dissenting opinions. In my opinion the ostrasization of liberals tactic is a refuge for the lazy that can't be bothered with discussion or debate because they feel themselves unfalliable. When I complain about neocons most people know what I am talking about. As a general rule I try not to lump all conservatives into a single group because I do hold some conservative values such as smaller government and lower taxes. At least those are what I have been swayed to believe are conservative only values.

reply to post by Venit


I think one of your own said it best:

Winston Churchill:

Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has not heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains.

So no need to worry, you're doing the right (I mean left!) thing at this stage of your life. We'll be waiting for you in 10 years.

Becker


[edit on 4-9-2008 by Becker44]

[edit on 4-9-2008 by Becker44]

Sheridan,
First off you say 'in the name of liberalism', that should give you a clue that these people probably weren't actual liberals. Liberals don't go around oppressing people. Secondly you're equating Christian beliefs with morality? Surely standard morality isn't one belief system's set of rules?

Also you ask me whether i belief that liberals have moral values? Well i'm a liberal, and i 'believe' that life shouldn't be destroyed, and i have respect for my fellow human beings.

I understand that your views on this political philosophy have been changed by the dictatorship in your country, but surely you can understand if you looked into it that liberalism isn't about hurting people, it's about equality.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


The problem is that it goes both ways. I have been harassed for my "liberal" beliefs by conservatives. So what if I believe that civilization has advanced far enough that we should be looking out for each other and not for number one? That is not something to harass me about. On the flipside, the people that share my beliefs should not be harassing someone else just because they don't feel the same way.

Society needs to go back a few years and parents need to be raising their kids properly. This is where I believe the large breakdown to be. Lack of proper parenting. Some might blame the liberals among us for this, but I know plenty of conservatives that have kids that need a good swift boot from behind.

Thank you for your replies.
I'm aware of Churchill's quote, but elements of British Conservatism such as restricting immigration and somewhat ingrained homophobia and xenophobia are things that i dislike and cannot see myself 'growing out of' my repulsion at them.

Originally posted by Sheridan
reply to post by Venit

 

In my country, where I was born (EU), the liberals are ruined everything. They're supported pedophilia, young criminals, criminal and killer minorities in the name of liberalism. They tried to destroy my country's cultural heritage, they tried to give more rights to the minorities, while they wanted to push the natives into the background. They're supporting drugs, supporting anything which are against christian or any other moral values. Honestly, do you believe that any liberals have moral values? Do you believe that NORMAL people are going to tolerate these morons? Think again.

Liberalism = Globalism, lies, delusions, thieving, killing and destruction of cultural traits and country's past.



[edit on 4-9-2008 by Sheridan]

Heavens to Betsy! I can't believe my mom supports all of that. I will have to ask her about next time I call her. What country is EU? If you mean European Union, that has been around since 1993 making you 15 years old or younger.

[edit on 9/4/08 by stikkinikki]

Originally posted by Venit
Sheridan,
First off you say 'in the name of liberalism', that should give you a clue that these people probably weren't actual liberals. Liberals don't go around oppressing people. Secondly you're equating Christian beliefs with morality? Surely standard morality isn't one belief system's set of rules?

Also you ask me whether i belief that liberals have moral values? Well i'm a liberal, and i 'believe' that life shouldn't be destroyed, and i have respect for my fellow human beings.

I understand that your views on this political philosophy have been changed by the dictatorship in your country, but surely you can understand if you looked into it that liberalism isn't about hurting people, it's about equality.

Sorry. My native country is a christian state and we had no problems until the liberals not arrived into the picture. Christianity is not supporting pedophiles, liberals do. Christianity is not supporting drugs, liberals do. Christianity is kept my country intact in the last thousand years, liberals ruined it within eight years.

Liberalism is equal with Jewish world view. Conservative peoples are also not equal with liberals. I'm a conservative. I'm from a Count family and we're always keeping the moral values in front of our eyes. But the liberals are able to do nothing, just ruin everything what is in their way. See the countries of Europe. Where liberals were in control, those countries fallen to bankruptcy within two years. Why? Because they're thieves, nothing more.

reply to post by stikkinikki

My native country is Hungary and the Jewish liberals, called SZDSZ ruined it. My country was the leading state in the eastern EU block. Since the liberals are dictated, they've ruined Hungary withing few years. They've tried to destroy our culture, our past. They even tried to banish our national hymn to give a job for a Jewish composer to make another one, something what the Jews better like (I need to mentioned that my native home is a Christian state.). They advertised gay parades with little boys, they wanted to make pedophilia to legal, they wanted to make drugs to legal, they sold most of the Hungarian business and there were many, many things what they did. Oh, and the best is, when the Hungarians wanted to ban them two years ago, they called in the Israeli Defense Forces illegally to defend their position. So, do I need to love them after this? I highly doubt it. Liberalism is equal with traitors and liars. They're the destroyer of the worlds.

[edit on 4-9-2008 by Sheridan]

reply to post by Venit


The term liberal has been held hostage and bastardized to mean Big Government.

In reality the real definition of "liberal" or a "Classical Liberal" as Jefferson and most people across Europe once new it, used to symbolize smaller government which by its definition allows for TRUE freedom; to do or associate with whom you see fit, without the Government taking the fruits of your labor or telling you how to do business, and with whom to do it with.


As you can see, quite a change in the original definition of the term, "liberal" as it now is known.

[edit on 4-9-2008 by Gateway]

reply to post by Sheridan


I'm sorry but i could not disagree more. To be honest i find it offensive that you accuse liberalism of supporting drug abuse and paedophilia.

Furthermore, could you please explain how you think that liberalism is 'a Jewish world view'? I believe that it is conservatism (American at least) that is supportive of Israeli expansion.

Originally posted by Sheridan
reply to post by stikkinikki

 

My native country is Hungary and the Jewish liberals, called SZDSZ ruined it. My country was the leading state in the eastern EU block. Since the liberals are dictated, they've ruined Hungary withing few years. They've tried to destroy our culture, our past. They even tried to banish our national hymn to give a job for a Jewish composer to make another one, something what the Jews better like (I need to mentioned that my native home is a Christian state.). They advertised gay parades with little boys, they wanted to make pedophilia to legal, they wanted to make drugs to legal, they sold most of the Hungarian business and there were many, many things what they did. Oh, and the best is, when the Hungarians wanted to ban them two years ago, they called in the Israeli Defense Forces illegally to defend their position. So, do I need to love them after this? I highly doubt it. Liberalism is equal with traitors and liars. They're the destroyer of the worlds.

[edit on 4-9-2008 by Sheridan]

Sounds like your country is messed up. I don't stand for any of that BS you label me with. I can't think of any worlds, much less one, that I have destroyed. So were you born in Hungary or were you born in the EU?

reply to post by Gateway


Indeed. I agree with you there. I have no wish to see an intrusive governmental system, or as a British tabloid would term it a 'nanny state'.

Originally posted by Venit
reply to post by Sheridan

 

I'm sorry but i could not disagree more. To be honest i find it offensive that you accuse liberalism of supporting drug abuse and paedophilia.

Furthermore, could you please explain how you think that liberalism is 'a Jewish world view'? I believe that it is conservatism (American at least) that is supportive of Israeli expansion.

You find it offensive, but in Hungary, that's the truth. Go there, ask some Hungarians and they'll give you the same answer. Liberalism is yes, a Jewish world view. Ask the Hungarians, whose are still living there. They can tell you about this more. That's sure they'll tell you the same, what I did. Hungarians are turned to anti-liberals in the last years, because they ruined a prosperous and beautiful country.

Liberals are always supporting Israel. You may consider them as the beach head for Jewish expansion. In Hungary, the liberals are built up around 500000 homes and reserve it for Jews for that case if Israel is going to be destroyed. They're not giving those homes homeless Hungarians until that time. No. Those flats are waiting for moron Israelis, whose maybe arrives. But as I know my country and it's citizens, the Jews and their liberal ideals will be banished first from my country, then before they would have a chance to move in. It's never the best if they're messing with the Hungarians.

Liberalism is destroying cultures, regardless what you believes. Go to Hungary and experience few things about the real liberalism. Then we may talk about it again.

Originally posted by Sheridan
Sorry. My native country is a christian state and we had no problems until the liberals not arrived into the picture.

Christian State....Vatican City? There was a country without any problems? Why was I not informed of this place?

Originally posted by Sheridan
Christianity is not supporting pedophiles, liberals do. Christianity is not supporting drugs, liberals do. Christianity is kept my country intact in the last thousand years, liberals ruined it within eight years.

I find it incredibly hard to believe that liberals or conservatives would ever condone paedophilia. Do you have anything to back this incendiary accusation up?

Originally posted by Sheridan
Liberalism is equal with Jewish world view. Conservative peoples are also not equal with liberals. I'm a conservative.

Wow, I think you may find that many Jewish people also count themselves among conservatives. I also find it a bit disturbing that you find that you are not equal to liberal people, i.e that you are superior. I may be reading too much into this, but I always thought that the meek shall inherit the Earth.

reply to post by round_eyed_dog

Hungary is a christian state since 1001. Read some history.

And it's maybe hard to believe, but go to Hungary, be there for two weeks, see what is going on there and then you will see what liberalism is all about. Oh, and what resistance is all about. Hungarians are not giving their country that easy.

And Liberal Jews never were conservatives. They're just playing that they're. You know another phrase for them... Zionist. That's what the liberals are really are.



[edit on 4-9-2008 by Sheridan]

Originally posted by Venit
reply to post by Gateway

 

Indeed. I agree with you there. I have no wish to see an intrusive governmental system, or as a British tabloid would term it a 'nanny state'.

There is nothing wrong with the term "liberal", if we use it in the original meaning and all nations move away from large government. It is an oxymoron to think having a larger government will yield more freedoms, when clearly it is the opposite.

Originally posted by Gateway

There is nothing wrong with the term "liberal", if we use it in the original meaning and all nations move away from large government. It is an oxymoron to think having a larger government will yield more freedoms, when clearly it is the opposite.

The military industrial complex of corporations keeps stoking the fires that lead to increasing sales of weapons that are used to take freedoms away more often than granting the freedom that they claim.

The MIC drive governments to become larger and drive the need for increasing taxes ever higher. Then everyone else wants their fair share of the pie so government and taxes grow yet even higher.