Security Systems

Hi Everyone,

Just been thinking about surviving a crisis and surviving in general really and I started to wonder about home security systems. In the event of SitX I'm sure as we all know that many people will turn to looting and robbing, basically stealing off each other in order to survive.

Well that got me thinking about home defence and home security systems, it makes perfect sense that if you could see an attacker coming towards you that you'll be able to defend yourself better.

Whats everyones take on home CCTV cameras, PIR sensors, burglar alarms? etc Do you all think they would be effective and help in SitX or not really be of much use?

Personally, I think that in the event of SitX a well put together security/home defence system could maybe mean the difference between life and death, more so if you own land and it needs protecting.

Apart from actual electronic systems what other means can one use to physically secure their premises?

[edit on 3/9/08 by Death_Kron]

[edit on 3/9/08 by Death_Kron]

The best way to beat an intruder is to think like one and work out all the feasible ways someone could break in to your property...

A most basic tripwire alarm system is to use a spring-jaw clothes peg, 2 brass thumbtacks pushed into each 'face' of the jaws and wired to a 9v battery and an old style camera flash-bulb or electronic personal attack alarm

Tie one end of the tripline to a secure oblect and the other to a small square of plastic thats held between the peg-jaws...when tripped, the plastic is pulled out allowing the circuit to complete and fires the camera flash (which will night-blind an intruder after dark if positioned directly ahead of the route of intrusion) and/or deafen the intruder with the attack alarm

A physical deterrent would be to bury 'nail boards' under the surface of the topsoil below any windows/drainpipes...take small planks of wood and drive 4" nails through it at 2" spacings...then flip the board over and file down the nail points till needle sharp

the wider the spacings of the nails, the greater the surface-pressure of a human foot on each nail and the better chance of it going through the sole of the shoe and causing injury...if you smear the nails in excrement or rotten meat any puncture wound inflicted will cause addittional septic infections

Another option if you own your property would be to create 'dead-fall' hatches in the floors at ground level behind the doors and windows..this would reqire a bit of carpentry, cut out the floorboards as wide as the window/door opening and make into a sturdy removable hatch...when TSHTF remove the trapdoors and anyone bursting in will plummet through the hole and at least break a leg

Stick clear vinyl film over window panes, or remove the glass panes and replace the putty beads with silicone bathroom sealant to hold the glass in place if anyone attempts access by smashing the window to open the window locks

And lastly, if you are wanting to create a water-cache on the property, either bury dustbin sized containers, or dig pits to the same volume as heavy-duty plastic 'garden waste' bags, around an area of possible intrusion (say a funnel-point in a back-garden) and fill with water to ground level...anyone straying off a designated path through the water-pits will fall into them...plus you have many gallons of water stored in case of the supply being turned off

..and there plenty more devious ideas where those came from

reply to post by Death_Kron


Great thread to start there Death_Kron.

I was too thinking about this and the problem I had was.
Just say 2 people tried to break in to your house and were stopped by good security system. Would those 2 people go away and say, there must be something worth alot to be protected so well, and then they may come back maybe more organized and in greater numbers ??

I have this problem as I am ready to Bug out, but depending on sitx I may have to stay put at home for a while, so the security issue does give me a headache.
A good CCTV system may give you a heads up on whats going on but any looter may go for the camera's etc unless they are well hidden.

What would be your plan, just say someone got through your first security layer ?

reply to post by citizen smith


Ah Citizen Smith. I am liking the very ideas that you have passed on.

You have given me something to really think about.
Any other ideas ? please post them or if you want to discuss them in private, feel free to U2U me.

Colec156

Originally posted by citizen smith
The best way to beat an intruder is to think like one and work out all the feasible ways someone could break in to your property...

A most basic tripwire alarm system is to use a spring-jaw clothes peg, 2 brass thumbtacks pushed into each 'face' of the jaws and wired to a 9v battery and an old style camera flash-bulb or electronic personal attack alarm

Tie one end of the tripline to a secure oblect and the other to a small square of plastic thats held between the peg-jaws...when tripped, the plastic is pulled out allowing the circuit to complete and fires the camera flash (which will night-blind an intruder after dark if positioned directly ahead of the route of intrusion) and/or deafen the intruder with the attack alarm

A physical deterrent would be to bury 'nail boards' under the surface of the topsoil below any windows/drainpipes...take small planks of wood and drive 4" nails through it at 2" spacings...then flip the board over and file down the nail points till needle sharp

the wider the spacings of the nails, the greater the surface-pressure of a human foot on each nail and the better chance of it going through the sole of the shoe and causing injury...if you smear the nails in excrement or rotten meat any puncture wound inflicted will cause addittional septic infections

Another option if you own your property would be to create 'dead-fall' hatches in the floors at ground level behind the doors and windows..this would reqire a bit of carpentry, cut out the floorboards as wide as the window/door opening and make into a sturdy removable hatch...when TSHTF remove the trapdoors and anyone bursting in will plummet through the hole and at least break a leg

Stick clear vinyl film over window panes, or remove the glass panes and replace the putty beads with silicone bathroom sealant to hold the glass in place if anyone attempts access by smashing the window to open the window locks

And lastly, if you are wanting to create a water-cache on the property, either bury dustbin sized containers, or dig pits to the same volume as heavy-duty plastic 'garden waste' bags, around an area of possible intrusion (say a funnel-point in a back-garden) and fill with water to ground level...anyone straying off a designated path through the water-pits will fall into them...plus you have many gallons of water stored in case of the supply being turned off

..and there plenty more devious ideas where those came from

Great post! You sure your not Agent Smith from the Matrix ?

I love the idea regarding the trip wire with the camera, very clever but yet simple at the same time.

Are you or was you a soldier? Because the nail boards where exactly the same thing the Vietcong used against american troops during the vietnam war, something I'v never thought of using for home defence however.

Regarding the windows, well I'v heard of window break sensor that will trip an alarm system if someone attempts to smash them, the high frequency waves when smashing the window are detected by the alarm control unit.

Is there any possible way to "rig" a window so that if someone did attempt to break into or smash it that they would injure themselves?

The water-cache idea is another great one, I love it! You have plenty of water stored if needed and anyone attempting to breach the perimeter of your property is going to get wet. Maybe possible to have a permanent circuit flowing throught these bins, intruder gets wet but also electrocuted?

Keeps the ideas flowing buddy, very interesting! Your either a soldier or a terrorist!

Originally posted by colec156
reply to post by Death_Kron

 

Great thread to start there Death_Kron.

I was too thinking about this and the problem I had was.
Just say 2 people tried to break in to your house and were stopped by good security system. Would those 2 people go away and say, there must be something worth alot to be protected so well, and then they may come back maybe more organized and in greater numbers ??

I have this problem as I am ready to Bug out, but depending on sitx I may have to stay put at home for a while, so the security issue does give me a headache.
A good CCTV system may give you a heads up on whats going on but any looter may go for the camera's etc unless they are well hidden.

What would be your plan, just say someone got through your first security layer ?

Good thinking, your probably right that if a couple of people attempted to break into a property but encoutered a great security system then in all likelyhood there going to come back with more people and equipment (Weapons!) to resume their attempt.

However, I think that if their attempt resulted in enough harm or pain then they would be dissuaded from attempting again, although they might want to have another go in revenge

In terms of Sit X though I think as long as it was good enough to dissuade the casual attempt then you would be okay.

Good point again in that a looter might actually try to steal your cameras! That would actually be quite funny

My plan, ultimately, is to not let anyone through the first layer by ensuring that its sufficiently effective and efficient, however in the event that they did breach it I think its best to have a back up plan i.e. have a second layer off security and even a third layer.

Lets say the first layer deals with physical security, security systems, the outside perimeter, then maybe second layer depends on internal obstacles, distractions, booby-traps, the third and probably final layer depends on self defence techniques, weapon skills, intelligence and overall the will to overcome all odds!

Thats how I would like to look at it anyways, in a layered approach.

Proper planning and preparation prevents pi** poor performance!

The best kind of defences would be either solely passive such as the water pits or nail boards or rely on physical mechanics such as spring powered gin-type traps, with electrically dependant systems as the last layer...electrical power will be a scare resource if the grid goes down and batteries won't last forever.

Rather than try keep out an intruder from the start, the best system should make it very difficult to leave once inside (hence why barbed wire topped security fences face inwards...to make it more difficult to escape than to get in)

A CO2, or even better, Halon, fire-extinguisher can be put to very good use as an asphyxiant in a confined space such as a partitioned hallway or tunnel access point where any attackers are held in a bottleneck...this has the advantage of stopping those wearing gas-masks as there will simply be no air to breathe

Originally posted by Death_Kron
Keeps the ideas flowing buddy, very interesting!

You're welcome...

Your either a soldier or a terrorist!

I'm neither...i'm just a small-time melon-farmer

Originally posted by citizen smith

I'm neither...i'm just a small-time melon-farmer

I can vouch for that..At least I hope those were melons you were concealing..

Long time no see.Those corporate slavedrivers keeping you busy?

In a post apocalyptic world I would do as citizen smith suggests with the trip system but then react to intrusion with an ADS (Area Denial System) this would include a buried and hardened misting system set to fill the air at the access points leading to my retreat with fuel. When the air reached the proper saturation I would then activate the cloud of fuel air with a pop up flash bang that is electrically ignites. The system could be activated dozens of times if properly constructed and make an affordable area denial system.

Something like this can be hidden before x-day and if it is noticed by onlookers it would be appear as just a sprinkler system if properly constructed.

[edit on 9/3/2008 by UFOTECH]

Originally posted by UFOTECH
In a post apocalyptic world I would do as citizen smith suggests with the trip system but then react to intrusion with an ADS (Area Denial System) this would include a buried and hardened misting system set to fill the air at the access points leading to my retreat with fuel. When the air reached the proper saturation I would then activate the cloud of fuel air with a pop up flash bang that is electrically ignites. The system could be activated dozens of times if properly constructed and make an affordable area denial system.

Something like this can be hidden before x-day and if it is noticed by onlookers it would be appear as just a sprinkler system if properly constructed.

What you're describing is a crude FAE device...and not a good idea for many reasons!

I find medium to large canines with bad attitudes has always been the best deterrent. As a matter of fact, I was awakened by my 90lb lab at 0500 the other morning going ballistic. Looking out the side window of the house by the fence entrance. They almost cornered a possum the other nite so I figured it was that. Until I went out later that morning to find the fence latch undone. The large hook and eyelet kept them out though. They don't require electricity or batteries. Dogs are always on duty.
They take territorial matters very high on the priority list.

[edit on 9/3/2008 by jpm1602]

reply to post by citizen smith


In open areas like pathways into the retreat now inside of a closed spaced. The idea is to deny access to an area by armed assailants not blow up the retreat itself.

reply to post by jpm1602


Good point regarding the dogs, as you said they don't need batteries or electricity, are always on guard and they protect their own territory very well.

I know I wouldn't fancy breaking into a home/premises where theres 4 dobermans roaming around!

The only way I really know how to defeat guards is toss them some meat laced with Strychnine? However, that takes time and effort and definately something the casual looter/idiot wouldn't do in SitX.

Even kept indoors, with the windows opened or closed. They can hear and smell things with such accuity it would give plenty of warning time. I watched in amazement as my bessengee/corgi mix took one turn in the backyard and keyed on a possum with nose madly sniffing a possum in about 3 seconds.

Remember that Deputy Marshal Arthur Roderick shot the Weaver's dog Striker when the dog alerted and ran out to see what stranger he was smelling. Sammy Weaver did not know that the dog was alerting on a sniper waiting in the woods so when he saw his dog killed he actually turned to run back to the house before Deputy Marshal William Degan shot him twice in the back.

The Weaver's friend Kevin Harris who had gone out with Sammy to see what the dog was alerting on saw Sammy get shot in the back by the camouflaged Deputy Marshal turned and fired from the hip firing a shot that killed Deputy Degan dead and that is how the whole stand off started.

The lesson of course is that a dog will alert you of intruders but how will you know what they are alerting on or why. If you are drawn out by your alerting dog and there are guys in Gilly suits laying in wait you might have some real trouble. This is where a more silent alarm comes in handy and cameras that let you decide on your course of action based on better information than a barking dog.

If you have the means to generate your own power for a 'survival IT system' such as a laptop and battery-bank charging you could use webcams as a basic cctv system and most cams are small enough to be concealed in objects overlooking areas of interest without them being spotted.

If you have a guard dog you could even extend the idea to include a wireless-cam/mic mounted on the dog's collar and send the dog to investigate whilst you watch/listen from a protected post to determine any threat

the one method that's not been mentioned here are caltrops



If you have access to an arc-welder it would be relatively easy to make up whole batches of them and then scatter all around any area that you think anyone would approach by foot/wheel

Also, if your property has a driveway, drive 4" nails half-way into the tarmac all over the place and then you have an instant tyre-shredding defense against vehicle-borne assault.

Another point is that with these methods how would you make sure you don't become victim to your own defences?

One idea would be to spray-paint your driveway nails/caltrops/etc with a UV sensitive paint that doesn't show up under normal lighting conditions, but would be easily visible if you carried a portable UV blacklight to illuminate the safe path through the defences

All some very interesting ideas. I am really into mechanical/passive devices such as the caltrops. I could see rigging a number of traps as an effective method of deterring or severely injuring an intruder. However, I see many of these things coming about after the fact out of necessity.

My primary defense, however, will be my Mossberg 590A 12 guage shotgun and my Sig Sauer P229 in S&W.40 loaded with Federal Hydro-Shocks +P.

If SitX ever went down there will likely be a ridiculous amount of chaos requiring a shelter-in-place strategy; at least initially. I have built something of a saferoom in the basement of my house for my wife and child to retreat to which will provide shelter, protection, food, water and other necessities for up to 2 weeks.

I have also developed a plan with friends and a neighbor that we have dubbed "Fortress". We have arranged for everyone to convene at my house in the event of social breakdown. Under this plan we will have 5 adult males, 3 adult females and 2 children. There is safety in numbers and would withstand a much better chance of defending our ground.

We have stockpiled and rotate 30 five-gallon carbouys of water and have 60 days of dried provisions for 10 people. Each of the guys have their own weapons, ammo and BOB in the event that S.I.P. is not possible and we are required to move quickly.

If we are going to throw ideas out there, I guess I can come up with one:

I suppose a basic trip line set to alert you to someones aproach would be a good step one. You hear/see/whatever the alert your trip wire has started sending and you and yours grab your secret weapons: canned hair spray.

Take those suckers, tie them up in a rag which is partially soaked in something flamable and throw. Unlike a molotav cocktail, the hairspray cans will not explode right away. They will land, burn long enough to distract some very unlucky attention and then explode...

...violently.

If nothing else, a series of incredibly loud explosion and large fireball would send most running with no intentions to return. Since you are at your home, you can easily stockpile these cheap deterants.

"Don't try to rob that house...they throw grenades at you!"

edit to add: maybe I should add a nice little "Even though its a cool idea for a zombie movie, I am not advocating doing this unless it is a true do or die type SitX experience"

[edit on 9/9/0808 by spines]

*self-censored post as I don't want to break the T&C's*

[edit on 9-9-2008 by citizen smith]