Economy in Recession? More Liberal Lies?

Originally posted by Elfworkz
reply to post by jfj123

 

I thought the topic was are we in a recession or just lies?

­A recession is a prolonged period of time when a nation's economy is slowing down, or contracting. Such a slow-down is characterized by a number of different trends, including:

People buying less stuff - I'm sorry but a trip to any place selling consumables will prove this wrong.

I guess you haven't heard about all the businesses going under?

I typically use Walmart as my standard observation.

Try using the entire industry as an observation. Using only one retail chain is not a good indicator.

Decrease in factory production - Too a degree due to some layoffs but not that factories are completely shutting down. When Ford or Chevy goes under we can talk.

You're kidding right? There have been quiet a lot of plants shutting down and MASSIVE layoffs in the car industry. You need to look into this a bit more before making statements like this.

Growing unemployment - I'm not a analysis I can only base it on what I see. Looks to me not too bad. I could be wrong. I see no shortage of jobs in the Sunday paper.

It's not growing unemployment, its MASSIVE unemployment.

Slump in personal income - Hmm, I dont see it.

Consider yourself VERY lucky because most people do see it.

I eat really good so does my family. My kids babysit and get paid well over what I think they should.

Consider yourself lucky and be thankful. Most people are not in your position but it doesn't mean everything is ok, it just means you're ok. Good for you but the world doesn't end at your front porch.

An unhealthy stock market - True my stocks suck but its a market flux. It will come back unless we see a depression like 1929.

Just a quick note
Detroit, Michigan
Unemployment is at 15%
Poverty is at 33%

We may or may not be heading to another depression but right now? Nope sorry. When you go to walmart and its closed or your wondering how your going to feed your family I think its safe to say we have an issue.

Again, don't use walmart as your world marker. Some businesses are doing ok and walmart is one of them but many other industries are in extremely poor shape. As example:
Auto industry
Housing industry
Construction industry
If you don't believe me, check the quarterly profits for each for the past 2 years.

But just an hour ago I was in a overcrowded place watching people spend money while watching moderately over weight people driving a grocery car that look perfectly normal to me. If it comes due to credit cards and living beyond there means then they get what they deserve.

Then they get what they deserve??? Are you serious???
I've seen married couples with kids and good jobs living modestly but both lost their jobs and have taken less paying jobs but they're being forced to live off credit cards to feed their families. It's fairly common. It can happen to anyone including you so you should have compassion for those who have been responsible but have fallen on hard times and you should be thankful for what you have instead of taking it for granted and assume that everyone is just as lucky as you.

Housing is no different except for the people who bought into the lies because they cannot read a contract or understand the difference between fixed and viarable is.

That's just a small part of the story. You should try reading a bit more. Forclosures are expected to be up by 25-40% next year and do you honestly think they're all related to bad mortgages?

Not trying to be mean its the truth. If anyone dooms america it will be those people who cannot manage there finances.

Actually it's your understanding of the truth. Unfortunately, it's not accurate. You really need to learn about what you're speaking of before posting. Sorry to sound rude but what you're saying is simply uninformed.

reply to post by jfj123


Negative you are using your own opinions like I am. I dont rely on what the news tells me or the papers just my own eyes. I am fortunate because I saved and was educated. I will give you some people were not allowed the same but how is it my fault? It's not.

I have done my research it my own prospective and offering only my opinion from what I see. I do not like it Detroit and I promise you I will never even consider it.

It's amazing to me that people choose to close their eyes to what is around them then blame everything/everyone else for there problems.

I go to work, pay my bills and save what I can. I dont have a hummer or live beyond my means which is the REAL problem with this ecomony.

Factories lay off have done this for many years. People move on and get new jobs. I was layed off, instead of collecting a tiny check and saying poor me I got another job. We live within our means and my kids eat, momma is happy you need nothing more.

Originally posted by ethann
I think it is fair to call an economy in a downward spiral a recession even if it does not agree with the official criteria used to declare one.
Borrowing money to pospone an official recession is nothing to cheer about.
The long term outlook look does not look promising.
I would disagree that we are in a deep recession but we are in one.
In July income was down and so was spending after being adjusted for inflation according to the Commerce Department.

Nothing personal, but your line of reasoning is foolish.

It would be like a person going on a diet and gaining 3 pounds, and then saying, "Well, I'm losing weight because I gained 10 pounds last month."

No, it's not fair to say the economy is in a recession when in fact it is growing.

And I'd be curious to see where you're getting your data that July income and spending were down. Do you have a source?

O, I read a book once at it said if you really want to know whats happening in the stock market for a business you only need to go as far as to visit that business and see how well they are doing.

When I look around I see no gloom and doom.

Can it be just my city?

Originally posted by Elfworkz
O, I read a book once at it said if you really want to know whats happening in the stock market for a business you only need to go as far as to visit that business and see how well they are doing.

When I look around I see no gloom and doom.

Can it be just my city?

No, it's not just your city.

The only gloom and doom is the propaganda being spouted by liberals and Dems to make the economy look worse than it is. They did the same thing in 2004.

I am still at a loss as to why anyone who believes the Economy is in the #er they are "Liberals" ....

Seriously. Me a Liberal? Bigunit a Liberal? Really?

I find it ironic that I consider many neocon stooges like yourself jaime, to be Liberals.

reply to post by mybigunit


Actually with China is that they have plenty of surplus money, with surplus money you can invest in other nations economies, you can buy American debt and an dig into the America sell out.

The more countries like China the Emirates, Saudi own of America the more they are able to influence through lobbying the policies in this nation.

So much for national security.


[edit on 1-9-2008 by marg6043]

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
I am still at a loss as to why anyone who believes the Economy is in the #er they are "Liberals" ....

Seriously. Me a Liberal? Bigunit a Liberal? Really?

I find it ironic that I consider many neocon stooges like yourself jaime, to be Liberals.

No, I said it is the liberals and Dems who are spreading false propaganda about the economic data. If you also are spreading false information, and are not a liberal or a Democrat, you would be an exception.

Would you care to provide any data to support the claim that we are in a recession?

Originally posted by Rockpuck
I am still at a loss as to why anyone who believes the Economy is in the #er they are "Liberals" ....

Seriously. Me a Liberal? Bigunit a Liberal? Really?

I find it ironic that I consider many neocon stooges like yourself jaime, to be Liberals.

Correct if you dont agree with big government and the lies and rhetoric they spout you are a liberal or anti american. This is what the neo cons spout. Im a libertarian but not a liberal there is a difference Jamie. Neo Con talking points....

reply to post by Rockpuck


Yup big government, big corporations, and the cronyism come first. Working class peons come second. This is the new fascist states of America. Wait till Obama gets elected. Then we can have the communism states of America. Or under McCain we can continue the fascist states of America. the ole 2 party crime family.

reply to post by Rockpuck


The Op opener have not clue as why our government will not call the downfall of America economy right with financial institutions failing as now been bailed out by fake money to avoid the markets collapse as a recession.

Is because we are on election year, on election year the word recession is tabu, dirty and no to be use in any circumstances.

But as soon elections are over we may see the word recession coming back to bite every body butt one way or another.

I am still laughing as the liberal tagging by the OP opener when statistics do not match his views.

I think he actually promoting party lines.

America has been sold one piece at a time.

[edit on 1-9-2008 by marg6043]

Originally posted by southern_Guardian
Republicans deny theres a coming recession when a financial and housing crises is starring them in the face.
www.economist.com...

Republicans deny the existence of global warming despite the evidence pointed out by the worlds lead scientists.
thetyee.ca...

Republicans still believe the Iraq war was justified.

Its very easy to deny the facts, but that doesnt mean you can escape them.

Enough said.


[edit on 1-9-2008 by southern_Guardian]

NEO-Conservatives, people who's political standing and social beliefs originated from the FAR Left. Republicans don't exist really anymore. Even the people calling themselves "conservative" on this thread flat out stated "no one pays anyone back anymore", and "a weak dollar is a good thing", they say that becuase they are not conservative. Conservatives like myself, don't fight undeclared wars, don't stand in the way of the free market, don't believe in central economic planning, and we *gasp*, Save our money, invest it wisely, and never go upside down on anything.

The neo-conservatives on this board and many others, tout being pro-life, but cheer on wars that kill thousands. They'll shun "tax and spend" liberals, yet they'll spend more by half, while decreasing revenues. They'll decry making government bigger, but they believe creating the Department of Homeland Security was "the right thing to do". The Dollar falls 10% against the Euro in a single year. Oil goes from $20 a barrel to $110 in less than a decade, and every Friday evening, after the markets shutdown for the weekend, another bank goes insolvent.

Sadly, neither candidate can do anything about it, presidents are not in charge of the economy, nor should they be. Nothing on earth is more powerful than market forces, no matter how the government and Central bank try to regulate it, no matter what "measures" they take, No matter how many "stimulus" packages you have. The market will have it's correction, and this one has been a long time coming.

[edit on 1-9-2008 by aravoth]

Originally posted by Rockpuck
We sold our selves out, but it was the pricks like Jamie here who don't give a rats arse what happens to the individual American so long as the corporations make money, the politicians make money and the Gov tells all us peons "it's all fine, nothing to see here".

Of course, I'm a prick for posting a dozen or so sets of economic data dispelling the myth that the U.S. is in a recession. Sure. And I'm sure thought your buddies that told you that Santa Claus wasn't real were pricks too.

I have no idea why YOU aren't happy with YOUR own financial situation, but I will bet anything that it probably has more to do with CHOICES you made in your life and not anything big bad businesses or government officials did.

Just a thought.

Oh, and here's another thought.

If you're not happy with your financial situation, perhaps you could find a more productive use of your time than spending hours on an internet forum whining about how your life is less than it should be and it's all somebody else's fault.

reply to post by Rockpuck


"We sold our selves out, but it was the pricks like Jamie here who don't give a rats arse what happens to the individual American so long as the corporations make money, the politicians make money and the Gov tells all us peons "it's all fine, nothing to see here".

Rockpunk what makes you think Jamie has anything against individual americans? Simply stating a fact where you are reaching for something to justify your why you cant make the payment on the Lexus or take that yearly trip. 10 years from now anyone can speculate where we will be but I bet you a dollar I wont be working for the Chinese.

You might be though

reply to post by jamie83


Damn you beat me too it!

Took the words right out of my mouth!

reply to post by Elfworkz


First off

the economy might be bad right now

but why the instant doom and gloom [size=10] BS

about

"derrrr you might be working for china, derr"

Look. China is still behind us.

They are growing, yes.
But so are we.

All the economy needs is a few shots here and there, some topical ointment, a new president that doesnt promise the SAME, and we're back on track, where we were before 2001...

But they are where we were 40 yeras ago.
That gives us a head start

NOW

Thanks to Bush Co. we owe them, what? 18 billion?
Because we gave our money to corporations and to Iraq...

So...how does that equate to WORKING for the Chinese?

The Chinese govt has enough people on their hands that they cant even take care of properly over there.

Have your opinions, fine, but stop the bull crap doom and gloom that Rush Limbaugh touts to try to destroy Obama because of his approach to forieng relations that says we can work with other governments to make the WORLD a better place for ALL

instead of making YOUR HOUSE a better place for YOU while others continue to suffer and starve

I'm an American, and the unprecedented GREED we've seen from anti-obama folk this election is simply staggering, and it makes me ashamed that these same people wave the same flag that i take pride in.



[edit on 9/1/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

reply to post by mybigunit
I totally agree. The money printed now has no basis in anything of value. The only way to start anew is to burst the bubble. And that is going to hurt.

reply to post by Elfworkz


The fact that business is up for wal mart is a sign of hard times. People are trying to save money instead of buying quality goods.

Business is also booming for ebay and thrift stores as well. Business for pawn shops has doubled the past year.

Business may be up for home depot because people are trying to tackle problems for themselves instead of paying someone else to do it.
I personally have five close friends and relatives of all careers looking for work and not finding any.

My husband is looking for a job because he is a mechanic and the work has dissappearred.

And we live in an affluent area.

As for pizza deliveries, delivery folks and wait staff at restaurants have reported a 20% drop in tips. This is assanine however, as if you can't afford to tip you shouldn't be eating out.

Soup kitchens and food banks are having trouble keeping up with demand, and are giving less and less food to individuals.

So some businesses doing well IS a sign of hard times.

reply to post by nixie_nox


Thanks for bringing that issue, here is some news on the subject.

Darden Restaurants cuts profit forecast as diners stay home

CHICAGO — Darden Restaurants (DRI) warned that its quarterly profit will come in below Wall Street estimates and cut its forecast for the full year Tuesday, sending its shares down more than 12%.
Traffic at Darden's chains — which include Red Lobster, Olive Garden and LongHorn Steakhouse — was worse than expected. "People were not in the restaurants in the volume we were anticipating," said spokesman Rich Jeffers.

Casual dining restaurants — the moderately priced, sit-down chains run by Darden and rivals such as Brinker International (EAT) and DineEquity (DIN)— have been hammered by the weak economy and high gas prices. Darden is broadly seen as one of the group's top performers.

.

www.usatoday.com...

Interesting to hear that in a nation that its citizens loves dining out they are starting to eat at home more.

More woes to the economy.