Flag wavers,trolls and skeptics:The price ATS pays for fame.

I have been here for awhile and noticed that while ATS attracts alot of good folks we also see our fair share of Flag Wavers,Trolls and Skeptics,When some people see where I post online I get usual "so,you are one of those crazy conspiracy belivers?" or "you hang out with those kooks?" I have posted on everything from The Lennon Shooting to the fact that the NWO is looking to kill of half of the population of the planet and have been called paraniod,america hater and all the bs lables people like to put on us.I just chalk it up to the nature of the sites I visit and the herd like mentality that is out there now.

Hate to tell you, but with the exception of trolls the other two groups are more than welcome here at ATS. That's what makes this website a cut above the others because it actually encourages polite dissent. To deny ignorance you need both points of view. If you only got backslaps for every post you make, where would be the fun and the learning? And you've used labels yourself in describing three generic types of members. Labels are unavoidable. But you should embrace the diversity here, not resent it. As long as it is polite, measured, and well argued, I actually appreciate a differing perspective.

I've only been here a short time. But I have noticed something here that really disturbs me.

I see skeptics who will do anything to claim something is false or a hoax. And then I see people who do the same thing in reverse and no amount of info convinces them something is false.

And I notice that these 2 groups of people seemingly argue back and forth and the people in the middle actually trying to make sense of things are stuck. I'll see a good post made and it all but gets ignored.

It's like the skeptics say something easily false, and then the believer posts something easily false and they just go at each other and ignore anything in between.

Maybe I'm being dumb, but I can't help but wonder if this is by design to skirt the issues and take attention away.

Originally posted by badmedia

Maybe I'm being dumb, but I can't help but wonder if this is by design to skirt the issues and take attention away.

I believe it's simply the nature of 'belief'. When one has certain amount of belief in something they can and often will be blind to other possibilities. The same can be said about non-belief, it's more of a convictions thing.

Some people are stubborn, some are open minded. Often the stubborn ones, are the ones that are the loudest.

reply to post by Willard856
Oh,that kind of reasoned debate I don't mind but,lately it seems the site has gotten some of the more bellicose of the Flag Wavers and Skeptics the types that are not here to debate just to argue it makes having a reasonable discussion hard.

reply to post by mike dangerously


You my friend sound like a perfect candidate for the Debate Forum. Check it out. It's quite active.

reply to post by mike dangerously


Technically speaking conspiracy theorists are "skeptics" in their own right. You essentially are praising ATS for having the a bunch of people who fit the profile of those you hate with the simple exception being "Well, most of them agree with what I believe so clearly they're OK!" You can be a conspiratorial believer, yet still have some faith left in our government just like you can be a skeptic & a flag waver while saying our government sucks from top to bottom. I'd also say that what you consider "flag waving" is, truth be told, probably the last best hope this nation has against the NWO. When all is said and done, it will be the huge outcry from the truck driving, Copenhagen dipping, good old boy rednecks & heartland of America patriots who put their foot down and say "Like hell I'll sit around and let some piece of Euro trash foreign government entity tell me how to live!" and the revolution will begin. It will NOT be the supposedly "enlightened" liberal mindset that merely questions everything while doing nothing that prevents the NWO from engulfing America.

The thing you fear is the same thing the NWO fears. I wish I could get people who complain about the so-called "flag wavers" to see that.

Originally posted by mike dangerously
I have been here for a while and noticed that while ATS attracts a lot of good folks, we also see our fair share of Flag Wavers, Trolls and Skeptics ... I just chalk it up to the nature of the sites I visit and the herd-like mentality that is out there now.

Flag wavers and trolls are 2 different varieties of sheeple. By 'skeptics', I think you're referring to "conspiracy theory" skeptics ... and, moreover, referring to PROVEN conspiracy theory premises -- that these skeptics are skeptical of.

Originally posted by Willard856
with exception of trolls the other two groups are ... welcome here at ATS. That's what makes this website a cut above the others because it actually encourages polite dissent. To deny ignorance you need both points of view. ... As long as it is polite, measured, and well argued, I actually appreciate a differing perspective.

yada yada yada. It's not that easy, is it? Does Bush/NWO need to promote terrorism to wage genocide for you to know peace is superior?

However, the OP is referring to debate that is from flag wavers, trolls and skeptics of proven conspiracy theories ... such as Kennedy not being killed by a lone nut ...such as WTC/911 being the result of, "The Project of a New American Century" plutocratic sociopathic murderers EXACTLY being Cheney, Halliburton, City of London.

By definition, 'flag-wavers' only value their own flag -- rarely do they wave a flag that includes all the nations of the world, isn't that true? Such 'nationalism' creates more warfare. It's time for peace and harmony ... which is Truth -- war is unnatural, it is the manipulation of sheeple by oligarchy motivated by greed and bloodlust -- ALWAYS. Flag-waving promotes the sheeple myth of "mine is bigger than yours", and it's worth dying for. Which is myth and fairy tale and mind control and social engineering.

Originally posted by badmedia
something here ...really disturbs me.

It's like the skeptics say something easily false, and then the believer posts something easily false and they just go at each other and ignore anything in between.

Maybe I'm being dumb, but I can't help but wonder if this is by design to skirt the issues and take attention away.

This might be another name for "mine is bigger than yours" pissing contests. I think the OP and you and I may be in agreement about those who research & document their posts, as opposed to those who only take potshots, and don't know how to use google on the ATS site or in the general web to LEARN something that's worth posting.

There are a few cointelpro agents on ATS, and a few neo-Nazis from time to time, and a few hardcore trouble-makers who seem to have traded grey-matter for concrete because they have no ability to love or share or exercise compassion and understanding ...

...or, who worship money and 'theories of scarcity' as an excuse to bully and murder and rob innocent people, wave flags, and are trolls in deed.


[edit on 28-8-2008 by counterterrorist]

Originally posted by counterterrorist

Originally posted by mike dangerously
I have been here for a while and noticed that while ATS attracts a lot of good folks, we also see our fair share of Flag Wavers, Trolls and Skeptics ... I just chalk it up to the nature of the sites I visit and the herd-like mentality that is out there now.

Flag wavers and trolls are 2 different varieties of sheeple. By 'skeptics', I think you're referring to "conspiracy theory" skeptics ... and, moreover, referring to PROVEN conspiracy theory premises -- that these skeptics are skeptical of.

Originally posted by Willard856
with exception of trolls the other two groups are ... welcome here at ATS. That's what makes this website a cut above the others because it actually encourages polite dissent. To deny ignorance you need both points of view. ... As long as it is polite, measured, and well argued, I actually appreciate a differing perspective.

yada yada yada. It's not that easy, is it? Does Bush/NWO need to promote terrorism to wage genocide for you to know peace is superior?

However, the OP is referring to debate that is from flag wavers, trolls and skeptics of proven conspiracy theories ... such as Kennedy not being killed by a lone nut ...such as WTC/911 being the result of, "The Project of a New American Century" plutocratic sociopathic murderers EXACTLY being Cheney, Halliburton, City of London.

By definition, 'flag-wavers' only value their own flag -- rarely do they wave a flag that includes all the nations of the world, isn't that true? Such 'nationalism' creates more warfare. It's time for peace and harmony ... which is Truth -- war is unnatural, it is the manipulation of sheeple by oligarchy motivated by greed and bloodlust -- ALWAYS. Flag-waving promotes the sheeple myth of "mine is bigger than yours", and it's worth dying for. Which is myth and fairy tale and mind control and social engineering.

Originally posted by badmedia
something here ...really disturbs me.

It's like the skeptics say something easily false, and then the believer posts something easily false and they just go at each other and ignore anything in between.

Maybe I'm being dumb, but I can't help but wonder if this is by design to skirt the issues and take attention away.

This might be another name for "mine is bigger than yours" pissing contests. I think the OP and you and I may be in agreement about those who research & document their posts, as opposed to those who only take potshots, and don't know how to use google on the ATS site or in the general web to LEARN something that's worth posting.

There are a few cointelpro agents on ATS, and a few neo-Nazis from time to time, and a few hardcore trouble-makers who seem to have traded grey-matter for concrete because they have no ability to love or share or exercise compassion and understanding ...

...or, who worship money and 'theories of scarcity' as an excuse to bully and murder and rob innocent people, wave flags, and are trolls in deed.


[edit on 28-8-2008 by counterterrorist]

When someone takes the time to research as you have said CT no problem,it's when some one just disreguards the data and uses broad generalisations that brings the conversation down and leads to nothing being done.Alot of it is the "Im right and everyone is wrong" POV.