It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

4 th generation thermonuclear hydrogen devices

page: 8
0
<< 5  6  7    9 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 08:27 AM
link   
reply to post by jfj123
 


Well I do not know about the seven states of matter.
However, that seems much like a trite and trivial point to discuss, and inquire as to what is the purpose of baiting the post with that unnecessary and superfluous sidetrack.
I have posted about the EMP previously in this thread.
Yes conventional demolition charges were detonated in the top of the building and probably from there travelling downwards at equal to the speed of gravity fall which is equal to approximately negative thirty two feet per second per second. Feel free to correct me on the precise speed, I look forward to that. Discounting air resistance of course.
The FGNW was not in the top of the building, yes I observe the "gravity collapse" begins at the top. I would estimate that the FGNW was detonated about and between two to four seconds after the top of the WTC begins the "gravity induced collapse".
As passionate as you are in your replies, and passion is the immediate and direct result of emotions, it is apparent that passion fuels and rules your reason.
Passion that fuels and rules reason is in the case of an investigation the difference between Morgan Freeman and Brad Pitt in the movie "SEVEN"
In fact Morgan tells Brad "It is pathetic to see a man ruled by his emotions."
The difference between man and animals is not feelings, it is the capacity contained in the cerebral cortex to reason.




posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 08:43 AM
link   

Originally posted by fmcanarney
reply to post by jfj123
 


Well I do not know about the seven states of matter.
However, that seems much like a trite and trivial point to discuss, and inquire as to what is the purpose of baiting the post with that unnecessary and superfluous sidetrack.

My point is that with this whole cut and paste posting, you don't even know what's accurate or not. That's not trivial if you ask me.


Yes conventional demolition charges were detonated in the top of the building and probably from there travelling downwards at equal to the speed of gravity fall which is equal to approximately negative thirty two feet per second per second.

1. Can you provide evidence that conventional demolitions were used?
2. If conventional demolitions were strong enough to detonate the top of the building, why wouldn't they be strong enough to continue on down the rest of the building which would completely eliminate the need for a nuke.


As passionate as you are in your replies, and passion is the immediate and direct result of emotions, it is apparent that passion fuels and rules your reason.

Actually you would be incorrect. My background and common sense fuels my reasoning skills



Passion that fuels and rules reason is in the case of an investigation the difference between Morgan Freeman and Brad Pitt in the movie "SEVEN"
In fact Morgan tells Brad "It is pathetic to see a man ruled by his emotions."
The difference between man and animals is not feelings, it is the capacity contained in the cerebral cortex to reason.


You may want to consider your own words



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 09:19 AM
link   
reply to post by jfj123
 


Actuually jfj123 There are more that seven states of matter. Your reference to their being seven states of matter is as incorrect as my reference to four states of matter.
Four states of matter is "common knowledge" and seven states of matter is "highly technical and "uncommon knowledge"
I will bet you next months paycheck that there are several more states of matter than seven, as you have not visited each and every planet in the solar system, have not travelled to distant stars, or other universes.

In my common experience there are four states of matter. In your uncommon experience there are seven states of matter, and I venture to ask just how many of these seven have you seen or experienced?

I have seen and experiences all four of those I attest to.
Prove via links, photos, descriptions, analysis and other empirical data the existence of the extraordinary three above and beyond the common four.

In fact you delight yourself and begin your own thread dealing with all known and suspected "states of matter" and leave that off this thread of FGNW.

Conventional cutting charges. ie C4, thernate and thermite were use according to my reasoning only on the outer shell steels.

Thermate and thermite burn through horizontally placed steels very well.
vertical columns present a much more difficult proposition as in vertical applications the cutting takes longer and is not as efficient.
C4 as a cutting charge or a more advanced RDX, PETN, or PETN would result in multiple explosions some of which were reported by firemen and other eyewitnesses.

Study the COUPLING of FGNW to the WTC.

The core columns were 14 x 14 inches thick.
thermate and thermite would take too long to cut them.
C4 would gbe questionable to cut them.
Energized neutrons and temperature from FGNW will vaporize them.
Which of the three, if you were in charge of the disintegration of WTC would you logically and rationally choose.

I have considered my own comments for well over fifteen years, jfj123, and am able to accurately discern both in myself and others the difference between "reason and passion", "feelings and thoughts", or "intellect and emotion". In other words I do not administer medicine to others that I have not already taken and digested.



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 10:19 AM
link   
FGNW post state of the art information.



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 10:23 AM
link   

Originally posted by fmcanarney
reply to post by jfj123
 


Actuually jfj123 There are more that seven states of matter. Your reference to their being seven states of matter is as incorrect as my reference to four states of matter.
Four states of matter is "common knowledge" and seven states of matter is "highly technical and "uncommon knowledge"
I will bet you next months paycheck that there are several more states of matter than seven, as you have not visited each and every planet in the solar system, have not travelled to distant stars, or other universes.

I can only post the 7 that us earthlings are aware of.
I'll tell you what, I'll take your bet. Let me know once you've traveled everywhere in the entire universe and the other infinite number of universes and let me know what you find then we can add to the total. When do you think you'll have an answer?


In my common experience there are four states of matter. In your uncommon experience there are seven states of matter, and I venture to ask just how many of these seven have you seen or experienced?

So because you nor I have directly experienced those states of matter, they do not exist or matter? I've never been to Australia so I guess Australia is either irrelevant or doesn't exist???


I have seen and experiences all four of those I attest to.
Prove via links, photos, descriptions, analysis and other empirical data the existence of the extraordinary three above and beyond the common four.

I can provide you with evidence of their existence. Here you go.


A quark-gluon plasma (QGP) is a phase of quantum chromodynamics (QCD) which exists at extremely high temperature and/or density. This phase consists of (almost) free quarks and gluons, which are the basic building blocks of matter. Experiments at CERN's Super Proton Synchrotron (SPS) first tried to create the QGP in the 1980s and 1990s: the results led CERN to announce the discovery of a "new state of matter"[1] in 2000. Currently, experiments at Brookhaven National Laboratory's Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider (RHIC) are continuing this effort[2]. Three new experiments running on CERN's Large Hadron Collider (LHC), ALICE[3], ATLAS and CMS, will continue studying properties of QGP.



A Bose–Einstein condensate (BEC) is a state of matter of bosons confined in an external potential and cooled to temperatures very near to absolute zero (0 K, −273.15 °C, or −459 °F ). Under such supercooled conditions, a large fraction of the atoms collapse into the lowest quantum state of the external potential, at which point quantum effects become apparent on a macroscopic scale.

This state of matter was first predicted by Satyendra Nath Bose in 1925. Bose submitted a paper to the Zeitschrift für Physik but was turned down by the peer review. Bose then took his work to Einstein who recognized its merit and had it published under the names Bose and Einstein, hence the hyphen.

Seventy years later, the first gaseous condensate was produced by Eric Cornell and Carl Wieman in 1995 at the University of Colorado at Boulder NIST-JILA lab, using a gas of rubidium atoms cooled to 170 nanokelvin (nK)[1] (1.7×10−7 K). Eric Cornell, Carl Wieman and Wolfgang Ketterle at MIT were awarded the 2001 Nobel Prize in Physics in Stockholm, Sweden



A fermionic condensate is a superfluid phase formed by fermionic particles at low temperatures. It is closely related to the Bose-Einstein condensate, a superfluid phase formed by bosonic atoms under similar conditions. Unlike the Bose-Einstein condensates, fermionic condensates are formed using fermions instead of bosons. The earliest recognized fermionic condensate described the state of electrons in a superconductor; the physics of other examples including recent work with fermionic atoms is analogous. The first atomic fermionic condensate was created by Deborah S. Jin in 2003. A chiral condensate is an example of a fermionic condensate that appears in theories of massless fermions with chiral symmetry breaking.



In fact you delight yourself and begin your own thread dealing with all known and suspected "states of matter" and leave that off this thread of FGNW.

These states are fairly common knowledge and nothing special.


Conventional cutting charges. ie C4, thernate and thermite were use according to my reasoning only on the outer shell steels.

What evidence do you have showing this?


I have considered my own comments for well over fifteen years, jfj123, and am able to accurately discern both in myself and others the difference between "reason and passion", ".

You're making an assumption that you know me, my personality and educational background. Please don't tell me how I feel about something as it would be only a VERY uneducated guess on your part and thus pointless. Ultimately, you only know YOU and that is assuming you are very self aware. Psychologists with years of training cannot instantly analyze someone so I find it outrageously improbable that you can.


[edit on 1-9-2008 by jfj123]



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 10:32 AM
link   

Originally posted by fmcanarney
reply to post by jfj123
 

The core columns were 14 x 14 inches thick.
thermate and thermite would take too long to cut them.
C4 would gbe questionable to cut them.
Energized neutrons and temperature from FGNW will vaporize them.
Which of the three, if you were in charge of the disintegration of WTC would you logically and rationally choose.


That's a good point

How were 'spires' of core columns and outer walls still standing after the collapses if they were, in fact, melted down from below?
Remember that the base of those columns would have been closest to the hypothesised device.

You'll probably lead me to the 'angled cuts' but please, thermonuclear destruction is not as surgical as that.



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 10:38 AM
link   

Originally posted by jfj123
I've never been to Australia so I guess Australia is either irrelevant or doesn't exist???


Geez
We know we're laid back, easy going etc but 'irrelevant' is just a trifle below the belt



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 10:47 AM
link   

Originally posted by Pilgrum

Originally posted by jfj123
I've never been to Australia so I guess Australia is either irrelevant or doesn't exist???


Geez
We know we're laid back, easy going etc but 'irrelevant' is just a trifle below the belt


Easy mate, just an example

Truth is I'd love to goto Australia.
For starters, bush doesn't run things there



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 11:10 AM
link   
jfj123
Post evidence that convetional demolitions were used at the top of the building.
Firemen report sequential explosions.
Audio/visual evidence when two firemen are on a payphone documents multiple detonations.
Demolition squibs, direct and inferred as one observable evidence of demolitions is seen in multip0le WTC collapse videos.

I define the "top of the building" as from floor twenty five upwards.

I evidence blast and pressure wave from FGNW as causing 22 plus tons of steel to be parabolically ejected from the WTC buildings.

I evidence no human remains found as resulting from vaporization produced by FGNW.

I evidence molten steel 100 days as caused by neutronic excitation of steel to temperatures in excess of 7,000 degrees.

The FGNW event lasted one second. Its consequences, hot steel lasted three plus months.

The pulverization of concrete is the result of neutron, blast, shock wave, heat and overpressure in combination but primairly neutron excitation of water in the concrete.

Same as with disappearance of victims whose remains were not found.

Ablating steel leaving vapor trails on parabolic trajectory to earth.

Just the parabolic shape of the dust and debris in the collapse is a good indication of and comparable to an underground FGNW detonation.

The parabolic shape and color of the ejecta and dust rules out a gravity collapse and rules out a purely controlled demolition collapse.

I predict that the Government spin masters will in the near future admit that WTC complex was wired for demolition during construction out of fear that if it was ever suspected of not being able to remain erect that they would intentionally demolish the building so it would not fall like a tree in an uncontrolled direction.
Once they do that, it will effectively shut down an honest investigation into WTC/911 because they will have gutted a majority of truth seekers by giving them a smattering of truth disguised as the ultimate reason.
The use of the word "collapse" in the NIST report is disingenuous at least and an outright lie at most.
The ultimate and primary reason for the total destruction, demolition,
decimation, disintegration of WTC complex is my purpose and goal of my lines of inquiry.
The most reasonable and plausible explaination in a primary sense of WTC1-2 is FGNW in basement.
Secondary is CD in the top.
Tertiary is the airplane/missle/laser/or whatever it was at the top of the
towers.
IMO spinning the planes/missle/whatever as the primary cause is like taking aspirin to treat a broken finger.
In that respect, lets suppose you fracture your tibia. Lets suppose it is a compound fracture.
The initial diagnostic impression in the ER by an MD is:
Primary diagnosis "compound fracture of femur"
Secondary diagnoses "torn skin", "loss of blood", "pain" and "swelling".
Tertiary diagnosis "potential infection."
I would be remiss in my duties as the MD in this instance if I did not properly treat the primary diagnosis of fracture of the femur, and only treated the secondary and tertiary diagnoses by sewing up the skin, transfusion of blood, antiinflammatory and pain meds and antibiotics.
But instead if I treat the primary diagnosis only the remainder will recover on their own
So I compare the injury that WTC1&2 sustained as a result of the planes as a bullet wound in the thigh muscle only, one in each leg, of a grown man. Bearing in mind that the towers were rigid and muscle is not. Those particular injuries if properly treated will not result in loss of that mans life, or destruction of WTC1-2. However, if more injury is sustained in the legs, like stabbing with a knife or other insults, and the bones in both legs are completely destroyed commencing from the feet upwards, and this destructive force sent a shock wave/blast wave through the man from toe to head then he will colllapse and die. The initial bullet holes in each thigh, plane holes in each tower, are inconsequential to and inadequate to explain the disintegration of WTC1-2 or of the man.



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 11:34 AM
link   

Originally posted by Pilgrum

Originally posted by fmcanarney
reply to post by jfj123
 

The core columns were 14 x 14 inches thick.
thermate and thermite would take too long to cut them.
C4 would gbe questionable to cut them.
Energized neutrons and temperature from FGNW will vaporize them.
Which of the three, if you were in charge of the disintegration of WTC would you logically and rationally choose.


That's a good point

How were 'spires' of core columns and outer walls still standing after the collapses if they were, in fact, melted down from below?
The hypothesized FGNW in in the basement in the center of the core.
The FGNW was a directed, focused, munition and would have vaporized a spherical shape with the center of the explosion on a plane dividing the bottom of WTC and the bedrock. However more resistance would be given by the bedrock so the vaporization would have been more elliptical from the surface of the bedrock upwards. Actually half of a sphere in the bedrock and elliptical shape up and into the WTC tower. My estimation would be that the bedrock sphere would have dimensions of sixty feet wide at the surface of the bedrock and thirty feet in depth into the bedrock. That the elliptical vaporization up and into the tower would be thirty to forty feet in diameter at the intersection of the base of the tower and the bedrock, elliptically giong upwards to perhaps three to three hundred feet.

Remember that the base of those columns would have been closest to the hypothesised device.

This proposed diagram of vaporization destruction, half of a sphere in the bedrock and elliptical up and into the tower would not reach the outer walls and outer support columns.


You'll probably lead me to the 'angled cuts' but please, thermonuclear destruction is not as surgical as that.

Since I am of the opinion that controlled demolitions were only part of the dog and pony show disguising the FGNW, i really have no interest in angle cut columns. My focus is on a primary diagnosis that rules out secondary, tertiary and quaternary... superfluous causes.




posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 11:34 AM
link   
reply to post by fmcanarney
 


I'm still waiting for you to post evidence of your hypothesis.



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 11:57 AM
link   
That is fantastic jfj123.
did you look at the crater link
did you look at the squid evidence
did you investigate the molten steel
did you read the link to metal analysis from WTC
did you look into the link for burned cars blocks from WTC
did you look at the parabolic cloud shape in videos
did you consider the ejection of heavy steel from sides of buildings
did you see the seismographic evidence of a 2.xx event preceeding WTC
evidence of cd in top = squids
evidence of FGNW = crater in bedrock
evidence of FGNW = evection of steel in parabola
evidence of FGNW neutron induced heat = molten metal/steel
evidence of FGNW neutron activity on water = concrete pulverized
evidence of FGNW on water in humans = no victim bodies found
evidence of FGNW on steel = decontamination procedures prior to disposal
evidence of FGNW effect on steel = analysis of steel for isotopes
evidence of FGNW = pyroclastic dust cloud
evidence of FGNW effect on water = vaporization of 250,000 gallons on each roof of each tower.
evidence of conversation with closed mind = need for glass bellybutton



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 11:59 AM
link   

Originally posted by fmcanarney
This proposed diagram of vaporization destruction, half of a sphere in the bedrock and elliptical up and into the tower would not reach the outer walls and outer support columns.


But I was particularly referring to the core columns that remained standing remarkably undamaged, not even bent. The core appears to have snapped apart at the welded joints which isn't all that surprising considering the lateral stabilisation of the floors attached to the outer walls was stripped away by the collapse.



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 12:43 PM
link   
Here is evidence of heat and perhaps neutron activity up to seven blocks from WTC.



A reported 1400 vehicles were damaged on 9/11. [Reference] These vehicles had peculiar patterns of damage and some were as far away as FDR Drive (about 7 blocks from the WTC, along the East River). Vehicles had missing door handles for example, windows blown out, window frames deformed, melted engine blocks, steel-belted tires with only the steel belts left, and vehicle front ends destroyed with little or no effect on the back end of the vehicles. What could have caused such extraordinary damage? Portions of cars burned while paper nearby did not.


drjudywood.com...



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 01:08 PM
link   
Both of the government-sponsored engineering studies of the Twin Towers' "collapses" -- FEMA's and NIST's -- are highly misleading about the core structures. Neither Report discloses dimensions for core columns -- dimensions that are clearly evident in the architectural drawings. Both Reports use a variety of techniques seemingly designed to minimize the strength of the cores or to conceal their structural role entirely.
FEMA, in its explanation of the collapses, stated:
As the floors collapsed, this left tall freestanding portions of the exterior wall and possibly central core columns. As the unsupported height of these freestanding exterior wall elements increased, they buckled at the bolted column splice connections, and also collapsed.
The blueprints show that FEMA's report was inaccurate in stating that core columns were "freestanding" when in fact large horizontal beams cross-connected the core columns in a three-dimensional matrix of steel.
The NIST report into the collapses has also been proven inaccurate by the blueprints as it has implied that the only the corner columns were "massive" and that the core columns decreased in size in the higher stories when, in fact, the sixteen columns on the long faces of the cores shared the same dimensions for most of each Tower's height.
The buildings more or less fell into their own footprints, which is something that normally takes weeks of expert planning when a building is intentionally demolished and there are only a few companies on the planet that can do it.
Within each trade tower there were 47 steel columns at the core and 240 perimeter steel beams. 287 steel-columns in total. According to the official story, random spread out fires on different floors caused all these columns to totally collapse at the same time and at a free fall speed, with no resistance from undamaged parts of the structure.




posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 01:14 PM
link   
Pilgrum,

your reference to core columns snapping at bolted joints fails to identify that each of those joints was also welded.

the break at bolted joints does not include the fact that the core columns were also stabilized by horizontal beams between the core columns themselves, and horizontal attached at each floor to the outer columns.

the break at bolted joints also is nearly word for word from the official reports.

Show me the nearly thousands of joints via photograph of these breaks at the connection points of bolted steel beams

[edit on 1-9-2008 by fmcanarney]



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 02:48 PM
link   
I omitted witness accounts depicting explosions at the level of the buildings immediately below the impact area and from there down to the 20 th floor.
sub level evplosions and explosions far below the impact area:

Stationary engineer who worked in world trade center one described tremendous damage in the basement of the building more consistent in nature and timing with a bomb than with damage from jet fuel: "'There was nothing there but rubble . . . We're talking about a 50 ton hydraulic press—gone!'. . . They then went to the parking garage, but found that it was also gone. Then on the B level, they found that a steel-and-concrete fire door, which weighed about 300 pounds, was wrinkled up 'like a piece of aluminum foil.' Having seen similar things after the terrorist attack in 1993, [he] was convinced that a bomb had gone off."

Firefighter said "this, huge incredible force of wind and debris actually came UP the stairs, knocked my helmet off, knocked me to the ground"

Firefighter stated "my lieutenant said he looked down at the first floor, and he could see the first floor of the south tower like exploding out"

Firefighter said "I was distracted by a large explosion from the south tower and it seemed like fire was shooting out a couple of hundred feet in each direction, then all of a sudden the top of the tower started coming down in a pancake . . . It appeared somewhere below [the area where the plane had hit]. Maybe twenty floors below the impact area of the plane" (pages 3 & 4)

CBS News reporter stated "All of a sudden I heard a roar and I saw one of the towers blow ... I saw from street level as though it exploded up, a giant rolling ball of flame...". (same reporter stated "I hear simultaneously this roar and see what appears to be a gigantic fireball rising up at ground level . . . I remember seeing this giant ball of fire come out of the earth as I heard this roar" (pages 119 & 239))

An eyewitness reported a large explosion at ground level right before the collapse of the North Tower

A janitor witnessed explosions in the sub-basement A carpenter witnessed explosions in the sub-basement A Port Authority Police Department officer, who was intimately familiar with the World Trade Center from his years of police duties patrolling there, described how the hallway began to shudder as a "terrible deafening roar" swept over him, then a giant fireball exploded in the street seconds before the south tower collapsed

A WTC survivor said "We get to the 8th floor. Big Explosion. Blew us back into the eighth floor." Another survivor experienced an explosion in the mezzanine of the tower Another survivor experienced an explosion in the lobby World trade center employee stated "the bottom of our building was blown out"

Paramedic "heard ground level explosions" (page 29)
MSNBC reporter stated "I heard a second explosion ... And then a fire marshal came in and said we had to leave, because if there was a third explosion this building might not last". The same reporter stated that the force of the explosion overturned cars and set them on fire
Paramedic said “Shortly before the first tower came down, I remember feeling the ground shaking. I heard a terrible noise, and then debris just started flying everywhere. People started running" (pages 5 & 6) (why was there ground shaking before the collapse?)

Same paramedic stated "by the time the debris settled from the first collapse we started to walk back east towards west street and few minutes later – really don’t remember the time frames because we were so busy in trying to account for who was in the staging area and who wasn’t we basically had the same thing the ground shook again and we heard another terrible noise and the next think we knew the second tower was coming down and again we were running for our lives . . . . ." (pages 6 & 7)(why did the ground shake before the start of the "terrible noise" of the collapse?)

911proof.com...



[edit on 1-9-2008 by fmcanarney]



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 02:58 PM
link   
reply to post by Pilgrum
 



find an original copy of blueprint of the dimensions and materials used in the core columns, because the core was predominately concrete.
dur to the fact that no matter how rigid steel is it will still flex to the point of twisting permanently and disfigurement so they used mostly concrete



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 04:44 PM
link   

Originally posted by fmcanarney

because the core was predominately concrete.



You just lost all credibility.

This is false. Go check a troofer website:

911research.wtc7.net...

The core structures, like the perimeter wall structures, were 100 percent steel-framed.



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 04:51 PM
link   



new topics

top topics



 
0
<< 5  6  7    9 >>

log in

join