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How fast is Gravity?

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posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 11:05 PM
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Ok check this out.

You are in the world of star trek and you have a matter transporter capable of transporting an entire star.

You go to the star and transport it from one galaxy to another, billions of light years away.

The star previously was the gravity source that held 9 planets in orbit around it. The farthest planet around this star is 10 light hours away.

So if gravity acts instantly then does the planet instantly start flying off into space or does it take 10 light hours to happen?

Every scientist I have asked this question to has said it would take 10 hours for the planet to change its direction because nothing can travel faster than light. They also said gravity is a wave form and must obey the laws of physics.

I feel that gravity is faster than light. It is simply such a weak force that it can not be measured unless you do an experiment such as the star trek transporter experiment.




posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 11:24 PM
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That is a very interesting thought experiment, and if it were possible to perform would definitely prove the speed of gravity. I guess we'll have to wait until that day comes, though!

We'd also have to find a dead solar system so we don't kill off some species of bacteria that could evolve in to an intelligent species.

I think if the Higgs Boson is the cause of gravity it would definitely have to confine to the laws of physics and travel at the speed of light, since it is theorized to be the cause behind the mass of quarks and leptons. We just have to wait and see, though.

[edit on 24-8-2008 by OnionCloud]



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 02:11 AM
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reply to post by robwerden
 

Why do you 'feel' gravity is faster than light? Especially when experts have suggested otherwise.



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 02:18 AM
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Here's some interesting articles by Tom Van Flandern on the speed of gravity.
The Speed of Gravity - What the Experiments Say
The Speed of Gravity - Repeal the Speed Limit

And finally a exchange between Van Flandern and S. Kopeikin regarding the 2002 Jupiter quasar appulse and the assumptions regarding the speed of gravity.
Van Flandern is controversial, but I can see his point in this issue.
Meaning of the "speed of gravity"



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 02:22 AM
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Isnt that a really open question, yes on earth its 9.8 m/s but it depends what planet your on, no?

but in outer space, where its a vacuum...gravity doesnt exist....am i wrong?



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 02:32 AM
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considering gravitational drag (which implies that gravity indeed operates at a speed), electrodynamic forces, and the variable speeds of light (yes i believe light changes speeds), "gravity" operates at around 2x10^10 c. More likely above this number than below.

Edit: Check out Squizs' comment because i just realized that the site that i paraphrased is in his comment.


[edit on 8/25/2008 by JPhish]



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 02:41 AM
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I like to imagine that all matter in the universe is tethered together. I think they still consider gravity to be a constant, atleast thats the only way physics equations are held together. Not sure about quantum physics though.



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 04:36 AM
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Isnt that a really open question, yes on earth its 9.8 m/s but it depends what planet your on, no? but in outer space, where its a vacuum...gravity doesnt exist....am i wrong?


you really believe gravity doesn't exist in space......



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 06:36 AM
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I believe that the speed of gravity is instant or in realtime. If G = c then why doesn't light escape a black hole ? We already know that processes can happen faster than light (see here: www.telegraph.co.uk.../earth/2008/08/13/scispooky113.xml) so who says gravity isn't one of these effects ? Maybe gravity is somehow related to Einstein's 'Spooky effect' ?



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 06:41 AM
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Gravitation is an effect not somthing that can be measured with speed.

One thing I would like to know is, if gravity is a constant, which would be affected by mass. Does Distance affect gravity?



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 07:40 AM
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Originally posted by alundaio
Gravitation is an effect not somthing that can be measured with speed.

One thing I would like to know is, if gravity is a constant, which would be affected by mass. Does Distance affect gravity?


Yes, this is basic Newtonian laws.

Gravity is proportional to mass and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between the centers of two bodies (masses).

Gravity acts on an object at the speed of light, as has already been stated in this thread.

You can't have an area of the universe with no gravity, for that to happen the distance between the two bodies would have to be infinite, which isn't possible. The gravitational effect can be very very small, to the point where its effect is neglible, but it can never be zero.

-

zsrgt



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 05:27 PM
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Thinking in terms of Tesla's Dynamic Theory of Gravity, DTG to
those in the know, I have no ideas since this was withheld from
the public on purpose by Tesla and now in some vault in Los Alamos.

Intel clearance can get access to atomic bomb documents but
nothing from Tesla.

The ether pressure is a push instead of a gravity pull but I never
figured out that math proposal.

Earth is a giant conductor in space and a lot of mechanical force
formulas have electrical counterparts with charges instead of
acceleration or gravity being involved.

Perhaps gravity travels as fact as its voltage or gravity potential
and slows down as the inverse square law.
Until far away it have no gravity influence.
Thus having no influence over far away objects, which is what we observe.
Or seem to observe.

Tesla said we could move planets so it must be by voltage.
Imagine Tesla going to move earth with his Tower on Long Island.
He would have needed another tower to do that.



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 05:28 PM
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reply to post by OnionCloud
 


OnionCloud, I read your response and now my head hurts. I hate to admit it, but you are WAY over my head with this stuff. Is there any way you could dumb it all down so that a high school level physics student could understand? I appreciate your help and I am sure that there are others that understood what the heck you just said.



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 05:31 PM
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Originally posted by robwerden
Ok check this out.

You are in the world of star trek and you have a matter transporter capable of transporting an entire star.

You go to the star and transport it from one galaxy to another, billions of light years away.

The star previously was the gravity source that held 9 planets in orbit around it. The farthest planet around this star is 10 light hours away.

So if gravity acts instantly then does the planet instantly start flying off into space or does it take 10 light hours to happen?

Every scientist I have asked this question to has said it would take 10 hours for the planet to change its direction because nothing can travel faster than light. They also said gravity is a wave form and must obey the laws of physics.

I feel that gravity is faster than light. It is simply such a weak force that it can not be measured unless you do an experiment such as the star trek transporter experiment.


This is a much better analogy than the one I use. I hope you don’t mind if I start using it in my line of questioning? Thanks!



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 05:42 PM
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Originally posted by TeslaandLyne
Perhaps gravity travels as fact as its voltage or gravity potential
and slows down as the inverse square law.
Until far away it have no gravity influence.
Thus having no influence over far away objects, which is what we observe.
Or seem to observe.


Variable speed gravity? You may be on to something. If there was a way you could prove this you might win a Nobel prize. When I read this it occurred to me that your idea (if true) could help close the gap between Newtonian & Quantum Physics. It seems to me that it would explain why quantum particles behave so differently.



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 06:16 PM
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Worth a try:

F = ma = m Mr-2

a = Mr-2

a = dv/dt, dv = adt assume gravity travels as fast as its Force influence.

dv = Mr-2 dt, dr/dt dv = Mr-2 dr, vdv = Mr-2 dr, v+2 = 2 Mr-1

v = (2M/r)+(1/2)

Velocity of gravity from mass M at distance r is the square root
of two times the mass m divided by the distance r.


Might have left out some constance and made an assumption or two
but looks like the velocity attained by any influence is diminished
by the square root of the inverse on the distance.

So it must depend on the criteria or working hypothesis.



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 07:18 PM
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Ugh, just ruined a large post by accidentally clicking away... here's the super short answer version.

G does not equal c, first 'G' is the symbol for earth's gravitational constant, second gravity itself is a property of matter and does not 'exist' without it. It is dependent upon the mass and distance between the objects in question.

This is why black holes can capture light. The speed of light is finite and the photons carrying the energy can be bent or captured. Black holes are very, very massive and also very dense. Which means the mass is concentrated in a small space, instead of being spread out over an immense area.

The matter transportation question can be looked at like this. If you're standing on a water bed and someone else jumps on, you will immediately begin to shift though it may take time to reach your eventual equilibrium position. If the water bed is huge and the person isn't next to you, then you may not perceive any change. Remember gravity weakens over distance tremendously so the change may not be noticeable, but the water molecules within the bed have shifted, thus there is some change, it just may not matter. (An odd saying when you think about it in this context, to matter, to have mass, to have space, relevance, existence...)

The whole concept of equating gravity to speed just doesn't work. Speed is distance over time, how long it takes an object to get from one place to another. The object has to move along some background of existence to change location. Gravity is the distortion of that background, better known as spacetime.

Forgot to address E=mc^2 real quick. Ok, the equation basically says matter and energy are the same thing. It also tells us that a very small amount of mass contains a relatively tremendous amount of energy. "c" is approximately 186,000 miles per second and if you square that (186,000 x 186,000) you get around 34 billion mps^2. This is the reason why splitting something so small as a few atoms can produced the energy of atomic/nuclear weapons. Matter is basically energy condensed to a very slow vibration, so slow that it appears to be solid and stable. But if you release the energy which is required to hold that atom together, essentially freeing it, well, you've seen what happens to the matter around it.

Remember, energy always has to go somewhere, it is never lost. Gunpowder burns -> creates energy that is transferred to a bullet -> the bullet then transfers that energy to whatever it strikes. The energy is basically being moved around, it's always there in a different form. This is why martial artists can break stones without causing themselves a lot of pain. The energy of their strike is used to break the stones. If the stones do not break, the energy stays in their hand and hurts like hell.



[edit on 25-8-2008 by Parabol]



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 07:28 PM
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Originally posted by science lol
reply to post by robwerden
 

Why do you 'feel' gravity is faster than light? Especially when experts have suggested otherwise.


A few reasons.
First, the same scientist say light can not escape the gravity of a black hole. So gravity is there for more powerful, hence faster.
Second, there is always something faster, remember the mach barrier?
and C I just feel it in my brain that gravity has to be faster.



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 07:34 PM
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Wow! you people really paid attention in physics class


Question. I read somewhere that Earth's escape velocity for the shuttle is roughly 25,000 MPH. How does that equate to the speed of gravity, or am I all washed up?



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 07:46 PM
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It takes around 8 minutes I think for light from the sun to reach Earth. Einstein thought about this very thing. If the sun were to suddenly disappear, would gravity suddenly disappear or would it take 8 minutes before we noticed? And he found that it would be equal to the speed of light, so it would take 8 minutes before the lack of gravity could be noticed.



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