New Political Forum Coming Soon: The ATS Bully Pulpit

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

all of these reasons you have listed below for having a new forum, with a greater consequence for infraction are already covered in the original T&C.

No, they aren't. In the T&C: 1 There is no requirement to show sources or be certain of facts before posting. 2 There is no rule about rhetoric. 3 Nothing about conducting one's self in the best example of superior participation. In fact, very little of this new pledge is contained in the T&C.

while I do have some disagreement with your first half of the post, I want only to address the second half.

I add numbers to you quote, so I can respond to them.

1.) from the T&C

1). Posting: You will not post any material that is knowingly false, misleading, or inaccurate. You will not solicit personal information from any member. You will not use information gathered form this website to harass, abuse or harm other people.

while the rule does not cover sourcing, it does state you can not post anything "knowingly false".

most threads ive been in, people require sources as a matter backing up their statement. one guy will post "blah blah blah", the other guy says, "link please".

when sources are not provided, people tend to ignore the post until a source is provided. or at least treat it as not fact.

if you post it as a knowing lie, it is covered in the T&C. if it was posted, not knowing it was false, well then, as S.O. once told me, provide your facts to win the argument.

2.) from T&C

1g.) Political Baiting: You will not engage in politically-charged rhetoric, politically-inspired name-calling, and related right-versus-left political bickering while posting outside the Politics forums at politics.abovetopsecret.com....

self explanatory.

3.) from T&C

2) Behavior: You will not behave in an abusive, hateful and/or racist manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack anyone.

again, self explanatory.

so you see........it is all covered in the T&C

------------edit-----------
grammer

[edit on 22-8-2008 by JSR]

1.) from the T&C
Posting: You will not post any material that is knowingly false, misleading, or inaccurate. You will not solicit personal information from any member. You will not use information gathered form this website to harass, abuse or harm other people.

while the rule does not cover sourcing, it does state you can not post anything "knowingly false".

most threads ive been in, people require sources as a matter backing up their statement. one guy will post "blah blah blah", the other guy says, "link please".

when sources are not provided, people tend to ignore the post until a source is provided. or at least treat it as not fact.

if you post it as a knowing lie, it is covered in the T&C. if it was posted, not knowing it was false, well then, as S.O. once told me, provide your facts to win the argument.

Except that knowingly false cannot be proven and when it is proven the HOAX tag is applied. Some smears rely on the

if you cant prove it otherwise, it must be true slogan

like obama is the antichrist and he wants to eat your babies.

Cant be PROVEN otherwise without documents from the book of life at the golden gates in heaven , but its certainly not true.


2.) from T&C

1g.) Political Baiting: You will not engage in politically-charged rhetoric, politically-inspired name-calling, and related right-versus-left political bickering while posting outside the Politics forums at politics.abovetopsecret.com....

self explanatory.

What is self explanatory? politics.abovetopsecret.com doesnt exist as that domain any longer. It exists as the political forums you find in the ATS boards menu......im confused....

3.) from T&C

2) Behavior: You will not behave in an abusive, hateful and/or racist manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack anyone.

again, self explanatory.

so you see........it is all covered in the T&C

Nothing is self-explanatory about your interpretation. Calling someone a dumb (other word for a donkey) is an attack. Calling someone an anti-American socialist liberal is not an attack against the T&C. Its shows a gross lack of intelligence, but it doesnt violate the T&C. Basically - language like that - and how its applied to other political affiliations (conservatism, etc) is allowed because it shows the true colors of the person posting.



Basically - what is most upsetting is that you have nothing to complain about - but you are still complaining.

If you don't want to participate in the forum - don't. Its easy - don't sign up - don't take the pledge - don't do anything, go participate in the D'08 forum.

Nothing wrong with it

Its not political snobbery

its political debate protection


its the same idea behind the member debates forum being restricted to the two people debating in an individual thread

so someone doesnt come into the thread 1/2 way through and post thier opinion in the form of fact totally derailing the competition.


As with all things in life

if you don't like it

go away and leave me alone. Its not affecting you.


[edit on 8/22/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

"I (the always increadible), Krazy Jethro, an ATS member concerned about real and important political issues in this 2008 election season promise to do my best to elevate the tone of political debate through my participation in the ATS Bully Pulpit Forum. I will not post insults. I will not engage in divisive political rhetoric. I will focus on the issues important to the American public and the world at large. I will support my statements with confirmed facts. I will conduct myself in the best example of superior participation and fully embrace the spirit of 'deny ignorance.'"

I appreciate the effort SO and staff. Many of us have been around enough to see the ebb and flow of these modern trash elections and the need for such unfortunate actions.

However, the world is the way the world is and fools are as plentiful as unread books.

And I also agree, give us a nice smile SO, we still love ya...

reply to post by JSR


OK, I'll give you the rhetoric one. The other two stand. I don't wish to argue this point. I was hoping to help people understand how this new forum can be a positive thing, but I certainly won't force it.

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin


reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


then we will agree to dissagree.
thank you for your time.

[edit on 22-8-2008 by JSR]

Awesome! I stay away from political threads because they make my head hurt! I'm tired of all the bashing and the severe lack of real discussion.

"I, nunya13, an ATS member concerned about real and important political issues in this 2008 election season promise to do my best to elevate the tone of political debate through my participation in the ATS Bully Pulpit Forum. I will not post insults. I will not engage in divisive political rhetoric. I will focus on the issues important to the American public and the world at large. I will support my statements with confirmed facts. I will conduct myself in the best example of superior participation and fully embrace the spirit of 'deny ignorance.'"

Naturally I'm in.

"I, The Vagabond, an ATS member concerned about real and important political issues in this 2008 election season promise to do my best to elevate the tone of political debate through my participation in the ATS Bully Pulpit Forum. I will not post insults. I will not engage in divisive political rhetoric. I will focus on the issues important to the American public and the world at large. I will support my statements with confirmed facts. I will conduct myself in the best example of superior participation and fully embrace the spirit of 'deny ignornace."

Excellent idea SO. While I may not be a regular poster, I will definitely be reading it and would like the possibility of posting if I want... so I'm in....


"I, XTexan, an ATS member concerned about real and important political issues in this 2008 election season promise to do my best to elevate the tone of political debate through my participation in the ATS Bully Pulpit Forum. I will not post insults. I will not engage in divisive political rhetoric. I will focus on the issues important to the American public and the world at large. I will support my statements with confirmed facts. I will conduct myself in the best example of superior participation and fully embrace the spirit of 'deny ignornace."

Also, as far as requiring sources... not sure if it's actually required, but its one of the greatest things about ATS. People have to back up their talk. The problem comes with bad sources, not sure what to do about that.

my 2 cents...

Hrmpf.. So we who want to check our sources and always at least try to be logical as capability of each of us permits, get a forum for political discussion, and some people say it is some sort of free speech violation and what not?

Indeed, we are finally allowed to actually have a chance to discuss things without 10 people popping in and mentioning that surely X cannot be president because he drinks coffee not from fair trade network. Anything else our candidate is up to does not really matter, because these 10 complainers only want to base their conclusions by sources of questionable nature.

Now that we don't apparently have to stand that kind of simplistic behaviour, people are complaining that ATS will die? This is ridiculous, there are, what, 70 forums without such strict rules and ONE forum for people who want to discuss real things without all that fuss. Get over it. I'm happy, you should be too because now we don't have the time to debunk everything that is a hoax :-)

I'm kidding, but is it too much to actually get a forum from where you do not have to search 60 pages of meaningless mumblings and ramblings to actually find a fact you are looking for? This will, eventually, form into a thread that actually includes most important and meaningful facts about both candidates. That for me sounds like a resource, not a nuisance like some have said.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


This is probably a dumb question, and I apologize... but from re-reading the OP, it sounds like this new forum is for general political discussion and is not confined to the 2008 election.

Is that correct? Or is it intended to be specific to the upcoming election?

Many thanks...

The new forum is open. The preliminary group of members pledging to conduct themselves to the strict rules are:

seagull
Solarskye
nyk537
Amaterasu
Quazga
titorite
Maxmars
CA_Orot
optimus primal
Benevolent Heretic
marg6043
redmage
nina.
schrodingers dog
candyfloss
sheila947
Multiple Junkie
ItsTheQuestion
adrenochrome
Frankidealist35
Cuhail
Open_Minded Skeptic
Sestias
damntheptb
Andrew E. Wiggin
wisefoolishness
apk4o7mxb
rawsom
semperfortis
JacKatMtn
Nerdling
Hal9000
seagull
argentus
Malynn
DYepes
apolluwn
maudeeb
caballero
Blaine91555
Glencairn
Inannamute
jhill76
Hallberg Rassy
KrazyJethro
nunya13
The Vagabond
XTexan


PLEASE: Post no more pledges in this thread.
We'll create a new "welcome" thread in the Bully Pulpit forum, and members desiring to have posting access will be able to post their pledge there.

Thanks one and all for your interest in what I hope becomes a worthwhile project.



The ATS Bully Pulpit Forum

"I, supersaint, an ATS member concerned about real and important political issues in this 2008 election season promise to do my best to elevate the tone of political debate through my participation in the ATS Bully Pulpit Forum. I will not post insults. I will not engage in divisive political rhetoric. I will focus on the issues important to the American public and the world at large. I will support my statements with confirmed facts. I will conduct myself in the best example of superior participation and fully embrace the spirit of 'deny ignornace.'"

I may not be able to vote in your elections but I have a feeling that the result will have a massive effect on the UK too.



damn the above was posted while i was typing!! sorry

[edit on 22/8/2008 by supersaint]

Is this forum viewable by all members? I signed out and clicked recent posts and couldn't see my thread listed in recent posts. Any ideas?

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
reply to post by SkepticOverlord

 

Thanks SO, anything to get a smiley SO avatar back.

If I may ask, would it not also be a good idea, to have a similar forum with the exact opposite intent. Where the extravagant, rumor based, and divisive threads can go?
Kind of like a skunk works for politics. 2cents

I think that a forum for the politically thick skinned is a great idea. It would just have to have a strict no whining rule.

I am sorry I did not see the above post about no more pledges on this forum...my apologies!


As a long time reader and a not so long time poster, I am very happy to have these terms and conditions added to this new forum, and because of these terms I will be more than happy to actually discuss the upcoming American election free of "trolls"...this has made my night (in an internet sense, lol)!

[edit on 23-8-2008 by matth]

Hmm ATS is becoming like government bureaucracy I have to take the pledge just to do pretty much what I do already . So for that reason I am going to hold before I sign up for the Bully Pulpit in order to get an idea if the forum is worth the fuss that has been generated . I already my dosage of high quality US orientated discussions without taking any pledge . I am also use to high quality political discussions going unnoticed something that could have been acknowledged and dealt with without creating the Bully Pulpit forum .

"I, TheBorg, an ATS member concerned about real and important political issues in this 2008 election season promise to do my best to elevate the tone of political debate through my participation in the ATS Bully Pulpit Forum. I will not post insults. I will not engage in divisive political rhetoric. I will focus on the issues important to the American public and the world at large. I will support my statements with confirmed facts. I will conduct myself in the best example of superior participation and fully embrace the spirit of 'deny ignornace."

I want in!!!

TheBorg

Finally a place where its facts and issues, thats mainly what turned me off to the old politics site is that it was basically a bunch of flaming after someone would make a well researched, fact checked post. Real waste of time the old site was to me lol

Way to go SO, glad to hear about this

[edit on 23-8-2008 by Secret Shadow]

What a load of bull. A forum where we can read what is politically correct but not post what is politically true. I just tried to post a reply agreeing that Colin Powell would make a good VP for McCain, and I get:

You Are Not Allowed To Post In This Forum.

Well, well. Out comes the virtual weapons of rebellious freedom.

Prediction: this will be the last straw.

Censorship. Control. Elitism.

Bah

reply to post by Chakotay


You can register to post right here. www.abovetopsecret.com...
No censorship, just no insults and back up your facts.
You know, like an adult.