New Political Forum Coming Soon: The ATS Bully Pulpit, page 4

New Political Forum Coming Soon: The ATS Bully Pulpit, page 4

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ATS Members have flagged this thread 20 times

reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 06:17 PM by wisefoolishness

I, wisefoolishness, an ATS member concerned about real and important political issues in this 2008 election season promise to do my best to elevate the tone of political debate through my participation in the ATS Bully Pulpit Forum. I will not post insults. I will not engage in divisive political rhetoric. I will focus on the issues important to the American public and the world at large. I will support my statements with confirmed facts. I will conduct myself in the best example of superior participation and fully embrace the spirit of 'deny ignornace.

Cant pass on the oppurtunity to participate in a forum that sounds as good as this one does.

Can't wait.

reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 06:43 PM by schrodingers dog

reply to post by Mirthful Me

I just can't not respond to this.

MM you and I have agreed on so many things in the past, and you have helped me so many times since I joined, but in this case, I couldn't disagree with you more.

I went to college, and I don't want to go back. What are we doing here? A succession of written and posted soliloquies devoid of political bias and opinion for the sake of academia and let the plebes have at themselves? I have books for that from when I did that in school. We also have a debate forum for all our high witted selves.

All of this is totally over-thought.

We all agree that we want to dispose of hate filled, divisive, non-issue oriented threads, which yes include the blogger in the basement guy as a sourse. Take these, put them in a dump forum, we carry on as we were. All these rules and pledges and punishment is just so unnecessary. Not to mention the amount of extra work and time it will take to identify a consistent subjective intellectual cut off for the mods to apply, acting as de facto newspaper editors. Then to argue with posters endlessly around this line and interpret their intent no less , and why in their opinion this doesn't cut it as a publishable thesis. Oh and by the way, thanks for playing, you have no points for all to see, and stigmatize you accordingly. Better luck next time. Lucky are the ones with 201 points I guess. Madness.

How such a relatively simple ambition has ended up, that the way to solve this, is to take what was the original ATS mission statement, and move it to ATS platinum.

Am I the only one who sees that this devalues the rest of of ATS?
WE are taking OUR buckets and moving away from THEM?

By taking this approach, we truly give "THEM" exactly what they wanted. We fixed the problem by dividing ourselves. Problem solved.

I'm truly sorry for my tone and frustration, I hope you believe that. I love this place and it is I guess arrogant for me to assume that that somehow, suddenly I know better than the creators after a couple of months of membership. So I'm sorry for that as well.

[edit on 8/21/2008 by schrodingers dog]

reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 07:01 PM by apk4o7mxb

I can't say I will post every time but I'll like to participate in this as well

"I, apk4o7mxb, an ATS member concerned about real and important political issues in this 2008 election season promise to do my best to elevate the tone of political debate through my participation in the ATS Bully Pulpit Forum. I will not post insults. I will not engage in divisive political rhetoric. I will focus on the issues important to the American public and the world at large. I will support my statements with confirmed facts. I will conduct myself in the best example of superior participation and fully embrace the spirit of 'deny ignorance.'"

reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 07:18 PM by rawsom

"I, rawsom, an ATS member concerned about real and important political issues in this 2008 election season promise to do my best to elevate the tone of political debate through my participation in the ATS Bully Pulpit Forum. I will not post insults. I will not engage in divisive political rhetoric. I will focus on the issues important to the American public and the world at large. I will support my statements with confirmed facts. I will conduct myself in the best example of superior participation and fully embrace the spirit of 'deny ignornace.'"

I can take it, I'm sure. I usually check my facts. I'm certain that this will give a few lessons for all those people who do not, which is good.

This is also a god's blessing, thank you.

I can also see it coming that somebody wants this same thing for UFO's and aliens. That would propably lead to near impossible conversation, but in politics, such a move as this is some excellent work.

You people do know that this only works if rules are followed strictly? I do not mean you, users, but you, staff.

reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 07:20 PM by Benevolent Heretic

S Dog, I am confused by your frustration.

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
What are we doing here? A succession of written and posted soliloquies devoid of political bias and opinion for the sake of academia and let the plebes have at themselves?

Who said anything about being devoid of political bias and opinion? Most of us have a political bias and we certainly have opinions. It's the style of expression of that bias and those opinions that is at question here. This new forum (if I'm not mistaken) will require civility and respectful discourse, yet won't be structured, like the debate forum.

"No partisan bickering" doesn't mean a political opinion is not allowed. It means that USING political parties or ideals to insult each other won't be tolerated.

"Focus on the issues" means no talking about Obama's brother or his "socialist agenda" or McCain's wife and McCain's forgetfulness and Alzheimer's.

Am I the only one who sees that this devalues the rest of of ATS?

I don't see how it devalues ATS. Each of us has the knowledge and ability to post with civility. Many choose not to, but we are all able. Every member could be in this forum as long as they follow the stricter rules. If people don't want to follow the stricter rules, they they probably shouldn't pledge or join. It doesn't mean there's something wrong with them.

This new forum is what I had hoped the Decision 2008 forum would be.

Were you around when we had the "Slugfest" forum? It was a place where the rules were somewhat relaxed and sometimes some pretty sticky discussions went on in there. It served a purpose. This is no different. The rules will just be more strictly enforced.

ATS offers us many different types of forums and this is just one more. Decision 2008 will still be there and I'm sure I'll still post in there. Especially when I'm feeling snarky.

The preceding is my understanding of the new forum. I could be wrong, but I wanted to respond to SD.

reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 07:30 PM by ipsedixit

reply to post by schrodingers dog

I tend to agree. This new forum seems too "Canadian" for me, in the worst sense of the word (and I am Canadian). It's a little like Ralph Nader running for President, intellectual, but unreal and ultimately divisive, not to say elitist.

I'll look at the posts but I won't take the pledge. I hope I don't sound like a sourpuss. I am sure that there are members who would enjoy a forum like this and find it beneficial and stimulating. I just prefer the rough and tumble.

reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 07:33 PM by schrodingers dog

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

Take these existing principles as described by SO:

-*- mindless repetition of divisive spoon-fed political talking points

-*- patently false information about candidates presented as truth

-*- exaggerated disaster scenarios if one or the other is elected

-*- shameful racism

-*- shameful bastardization of candidate names

-*- shameful focus on personalities instead of issues

-*- pathetic fear mongering

-*- embarrassingly little focus on real, important, vital issues

Anything that falls into these categories put into a "whatever you want to call it" forum.

We carry on as we were.
Problem solved, end of story.

No need for new parameters, pledges, new punishments, new anything.

Now if you want to have a forum like the one described here fine. But not as a response to the original problem.

Does that make sense?

[edit on 8/21/2008 by schrodingers dog]

reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 07:38 PM by Hal9000

I'll throw my hat in the ring.

"I, Hal9000, an ATS member concerned about real and important political issues in this 2008 election season promise to do my best to elevate the tone of political debate through my participation in the ATS Bully Pulpit Forum. I will not post insults. I will not engage in divisive political rhetoric. I will focus on the issues important to the American public and the world at large. I will support my statements with confirmed facts. I will conduct myself in the best example of superior participation and fully embrace the spirit of 'deny ignorance.'"

reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 07:48 PM by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
Anything that falls into these categories put into a "whatever you want to call it" forum.

How about the Decision 2008 forum?

We carry on as we were.
Problem solved, end of story.

WE (you and I) might be able to carry on, but there are people who are posting in the Decision 2008 forum NOW who would suddenly have their posts and threads "thrown" out to a "garbage" forum. It's not a respectful way to treat members.

I don't know the thinking behind this new forum, but I suspect it is seen as more respectful to the membership to offer something different rather than start throwing people's posts and threads out, when they've been posting with their style all along.

Now if you want to have a forum like the one described here fine. But not as a response to the original problem.

I think it's the perfect response to the original problem. Imposing stricter standards on an existing forum would be a LOT harder to do than offer a new forum whose members MUST agree to follow strict guidelines to post.

Those categories you listed are rampant in the Decision 2008 forum. Some people enjoy doing those things. And as long as they're not against the T&C, then they should have the freedom to do those things. I think it would be wrong to come along and IMPOSE those guidelines on an existing forum. I didn't take that pledge, you'll notice. And that's why.

reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 07:52 PM by ipsedixit

Incidentally, will we who jostle in the mosh pit forums be allowed to link to discussions going on among the earnest few?

Will we be allowed to quote them and subject their arguments to the sort of brutal Pork Chop Hill style evisceration common to lame and confused arguments in other forums?

I hope so.

[edit on 21-8-2008 by ipsedixit]

reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 07:57 PM by argentus

I think this is exactly what is needed. If we wonder if we are on the envelope of transgression, we likely are.

"I, Argentus, an ATS member concerned about real and important political issues in this 2008 election season, promise to do my best to elevate the tone of political debate through my participation in the ATS Bully Pulpit Forum, as well as other political forums. I will not post insults. I will not engage in divisive political rhetoric. I will focus on the issues important to the American public and the world at large. I will support my statements with confirmed facts. I will conduct myself in the best example of superior participation and fully embrace the spirit of 'deny ignornace.'"

Amen, Awomen, Apeople.

reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 08:00 PM by schrodingers dog

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

BH, I don't know how else to say this. Apply SO's original conditions TO the Decision 2008 forum, that's where the problem came up in the first place. So address it where you found it. Doing this as a response doesn't address any of the existing problems of the Decision 2008 forum.
To be clear, I welcome this forum and I signed the pledge thing.
Now can we go back and deal with the problem as originally stated by SO and others?
Maybe I'm crazy.

[edit on 8/21/2008 by schrodingers dog]

reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 08:09 PM by kosmicjack

While I applaud ATS for being proactive in trying to ensure quality content and I will avidly be reading the new forum, for now I can't take the pledge as I think it may inadvertently hinder free speech, such as it is, on ATS.

For all the many reasons already stated, there is a lot of subjectivity built into the posting criteria for the new forum. There are A LOT of opinions at ATS that I entirely disagree with and reject, but I support members' rights to make their ridiculous points, push their irresponsible agendas and/or make asses of themselves, whichever.

All of this election ugliness will all be over in a few months but I'd like ATS to still exist in the original form that made it so attractive to me in the first place. In a time when our freedoms are being impinged upon from every direction, the last thing we need is more rules, especially in the name of "protecting" us from extremes, even if it is extreme stupidity.

reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 08:22 PM by eaglewingz

Bully!

If nothing else, it should be entertaining watching a few of the signees walk the line following the pledge.

Let's just say some posting histories aren't exactly pledge-worthy

reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 09:21 PM by Malynn

I, Malynn, an ATS member concerned about real and important political issues in this 2008 election season promise to do my best to elevate the tone of political debate through my participation in the ATS Bully Pulpit Forum. I will not post insults. I will not engage in divisive political rhetoric. I will focus on the issues important to the American public and the world at large. I will support my statements with confirmed facts. I will conduct myself in the best example of superior participation and fully embrace the spirit of 'deny ignornace.

reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 10:14 PM by southern_Guardian

Its about time!

Thankyou ATS!

[edit on 21-8-2008 by southern_Guardian]

reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 10:54 PM by DYepes

"I, Dyepes, an ATS member concerned about real and important political issues in this 2008 election season promise to do my best to elevate the tone of political debate through my participation in the ATS Bully Pulpit Forum. I will not post insults. I will not engage in divisive political rhetoric. I will focus on the issues important to the American public and the world at large. I will support my statements with confirmed facts. I will conduct myself in the best example of superior participation and fully embrace the spirit of 'deny ignornace.'"

For one thing, my primary reason for utilizing the new forum is hopefully the return to the old days when most people took the time to post their sources in almost every post. I like that. It is much easier to research the entire debate when everyone posts their sources.

reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 11:34 PM by jitombe

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

Under section 1 e.) Recruitment/Solicitation, please add no religion solicitation, mind as well cover all the bases.

I'll just read the posts, I am not voting. My only comment is that I hope Obama wins over McCain. Nothing personal against McCain, he does have a great sense of humor and I do think he is a real American but he's also a war monger and we don't need that. Obama will just be another puppet or will turn us into puppets. Regardless of who wins, it will be interesting to say the least as far as what kind of chaos or peace there will be on this interesting little planet us roaches have to share in the years to come. Let the moronic masses vote, I'd much rather vote for my left testicle instead of the choices we have.

reply posted on 22-8-2008 @ 12:06 AM by apolluwn

I think this is an interesting idea.

I would like the opportunity to participate.

I, apolluwn, an ATS member concerned about real and important political issues in this 2008 election season promise to do my best to elevate the tone of political debate through my participation in the ATS Bully Pulpit Forum. I will not post insults. I will not engage in divisive political rhetoric. I will focus on the issues important to the American public and the world at large. I will support my statements with confirmed facts. I will conduct myself in the best example of superior participation and fully embrace the spirit of 'deny ignorance.'

reply posted on 22-8-2008 @ 01:00 AM by maudeeb

Please count me in.

"I, Maudeeb, an ATS member concerned about real and important political issues in this 2008 election season promise to do my best to elevate the tone of political debate through my participation in the ATS Bully Pulpit Forum. I will not post insults. I will not engage in divisive political rhetoric. I will focus on the issues important to the American public and the world at large. I will support my statements with confirmed facts. I will conduct myself in the best example of superior participation and fully embrace the spirit of 'deny ignornace.'" Acceptance of this pledge affords a member with the ability to post in the Bully Pulpit Forum... where only few can post, but all can read.

And for what it's worth I'd be very interested in this level of decorum and oversight across other topics as well.

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