Ron Paul Speaks On Georgia VS. Russia

reply to post by Unit541


You seem to have swallowed Russian propaganda hook, line and sinker.


reply to post by DeadFlagBlues


And you too.

Don't read the news much, do you? Try looking up Lt. Col. Ralph Peters at Wikipedia.

And I'm sorry your world view has been completely shattered after being shown definitive proof that Russia has sent in Chechen mercenaries to do their dirty work for them, i.e. rape and pillage. So unless you want to try and actually disprove what has already been proven, leave the thread.

Read this to find out just how blinded you've been by Russian propaganda efforts:
www.timesonline.co.uk...

Before you two open your mouths, you should try learning more about the conflict as a whole, from both sides, and look for ACTUAL EVIDENCE to support their stories, instead of just accepting anything that fits your political agenda.

[edit on 21-8-2008 by Riposte]

Originally posted by Riposte

Originally posted by Gateway
God Bless Ron Paul,

"One of Ron Paul's great gifts is his ability to make complicated issues understandable and indeed memorable to average people. For example, he notes that US meddling in the Caucasus is like the Russians arming and training the Mexican army to take back New Mexico." -Lew Rockwell

Actually no, it's nothing at all like that.

It would be like Russia arming Mexico to protect itself from an overbearing and imperialist America.

Georgia isn't trying to take back anything, except what they already have.

South ossetia is not part of Georgia... So exactly how does Georgia already have this?

Originally posted by Riposte

Originally posted by manson_322
though I hate USA with a fervour for its meddling and genocide in third world countries ,

Awww, does genocide upset you?

56,000 Georgian driven from their homes:
www.msnbc.msn.com...

Chechen mercenaries sent into Georgia to terrorize the populace:
www.nypost.com...

"90 percent of [Gori's] citizens have fled, and the tiny remainder live amid a violent mayhem overseen by Russian occupation forces...

“They are burning the houses. From most of the houses they are taking everything. They are stealing everything, even such things as toothbrushes and toilets. They are taking the toilets. Imagine. They are taking broken refrigerators."
www.city-journal.org...



And the real kicker, Russia arms Syria. So I guess Israel can invade Syria now huh?
www.timesonline.co.uk...

I'm so f'n confused with one link. Chechens are helping Russians?

What? Since when did this happen? Did I miss something? Last time I checked, Chechens had more than just a fun time beheading Russian soldiers.

Also,

The fighting in South Ossetia and the subsequent invasion of Georgian territory by Russian troops have become the most widely-discussed topic in Chechnya. Unlike the early 1990s, when Chechnya unconditionally supported the Abkhazians and South Ossetians, the majority of Chechens are nowadays sympathetic to the Georgian side, even though the GRU spetsnaz Vostok and Zapad battalions, which are composed of ethnic Chechens, fought on the South Ossetian side.

source

[edit on 21-8-2008 by GorehoundLarry]

reply to post by Riposte


Riposte... Russia was wrong to go in so aggresively.. however you do realise that Georgia has killed over 2000 south ossetians? I beleive the truth is right in the middle... Russia did what it had to do to defend the south ossetians but then took the oppurtunity to "teach a lesson" which I beleive is wrong... They should have stopped at south ossetia.. However Georgia is the aggresor here. I would suggest for you to stop falling for the MSM propaganda.. And talk to actual south ossetians... see what they have to say about the conflict.

reply to post by thefreepatriot


Ignoring the fact that Ossetia is a den of criminals and smugglers that have been continuously engaged in gunfights with Georgian troops, wholly supported by Russia in an attempt to destabilize Georgia. And ignoring the fact that the Russians have engaged in ethnic cleansing by purposefully separating peoples on their borders to make it harder for areas like Georgia to move away from Russian power. And ignoring the fact that Russia has been giving out Russian passports to people in Ossetia specifically so they can fool people like you into believing that they are acting in self-defense...

the Georgians are not fighting to take back South Ossetia. They are fighting for the rest of Georgia, if you hadn't noticed.

Originally posted by Riposte
reply to post by Unit541

 

You seem to have swallowed Russian propaganda hook, line and sinker.


reply to post by DeadFlagBlues

 

And you too.

Don't read the news much, do you? Try looking up Lt. Col. Ralph Peters at Wikipedia.

And I'm sorry your world view has been completely shattered after being shown definitive proof that Russia has sent in Chechen mercenaries to do their dirty work for them, i.e. rape and pillage. So unless you want to try and actually disprove what has already been proven, leave the thread.

Read this to find out just how blinded you've been by Russian propaganda efforts:
www.timesonline.co.uk...

Before you two open your mouths, you should try learning more about the conflict as a whole, from both sides, and look for ACTUAL EVIDENCE to support their stories, instead of just accepting anything that fits your political agenda.

[edit on 21-8-2008 by Riposte]

This is not about polital agenda.. .ironically it looks like you are looking for ways to support your political agenda... Mind you I am American. but I can see the truth... so do most americans... 92% of Americans consider the russian action "peacekeeping" Try to find the Cnn poll of its not taken off already.. Russia did the right thing by defending south ossetia. .. It seems you are willing to support this regime so much that you have blinded yourself. Georgia is a terrorist country. run by a mad man... If you are willing to support that then may god help you.

Originally posted by thefreepatriot
Riposte... Russia was wrong to go in so aggresively.. however you do realise that Georgia has killed over 2000 south ossetians?

That is a blatant lie and you should stop believing the lies coming from Putin's propaganda efforts, that already been acknowledged as being lies from Russia itself.

44-45 dead in Ossetia:
online.wsj.com...
www.hrw.org...

74 dead:
en.apa.az...

reply to post by Riposte


really? thats funny south ossetia a ban of criminals? This little girl and her aunt don't look like criminals too me they must be terrorists in disguise! You really sound very ignorent.. people who generalise populations and ethnic groups usually are...




[edit on 21-8-2008 by thefreepatriot]

[edit on 21-8-2008 by thefreepatriot]

[edit on 21-8-2008 by thefreepatriot]

reply to post by Riposte


I have family there.. you are telling me my family would lie?

reply to post by thefreepatriot


You're kidding, right? You use polls as a way to influence your geopolitical judgment?

reply to post by thefreepatriot


So your family is representative of South Ossetia as a whole, and have counted the dead bodies of everyone?

Yes, I believe you!

[edit on 21-8-2008 by Riposte]

Originally posted by manson_322
though I hate USA with a fervour for its meddling and genocide in third world countries ,

only a person like Ron Paul , can prevent US imperialism from destroying the world and harming nations


I wish USA had a leader like Ron Paul, the world would have been a much more peaceful place to live on

Don't hate the U.S., hate that Freemasons, Illuminati, and World Banks, for profiting from wars.

Blessings to you and your family, sir.

reply to post by Riposte



Many people died during the Georgian attack... The number is very high. My family saw many dead bodies themeselves numbering in the hundreds. It seems you are keen on supporting a terrorists regime that murdered my people. Why is that?

Originally posted by Riposte
the Georgians are not fighting to take back South Ossetia. They are fighting for the rest of Georgia, if you hadn't noticed.

LMAO. If you didn't notice, Georgia is the one who started the whole mess. South Ossetia succeeded, Georgia went in to take it back. Perhaps you ought to research the situation as a whole, and as you say, from both sides. Russia attacked Georgia in response to Georgia's attack on South Ossetia. You cannot argue that point away, and you'll do nothing but make a fool of yourself for trying.

Plain and simple, the fact is that South Ossetia had a buddy that was bigger and badder than the bully, and the bully got bullied.

Your problem is that you have watched too much news on this issue. The media has done a marvelous job of painting Russia as the bad guy for coming to the aid of people who consider themselves Russians, not Georgans.

Lets say you lived in Texas. Mexico takes Texas back. Then Texas succeeds from Mexico because the people there want to be Americans, not Mexicans. Then Mexico launches an attack on Texas. The US then comes in and crushes the Mexican assault, because, well, the Americans in Texas are dying. By your logic, the US started the whole thing, and is the ultimate bad guy?

reply to post by thefreepatriot


A video of a girl that says there was fighting? What does that prove exactly? And where is the proof that your family saw hundreds of bodies? WHERE ARE THE BODIES?

You sir, are lying.

Originally posted by Riposte
reply to post by thefreepatriot

 

You're kidding, right? You use polls as a way to influence your geopolitical judgment?

I beleive in democracy... In a democracy the will of the people is reflected in the goverment... also the opinion of the people... The polls represent the exact opposite of what the administration is doing and the main stream media.. which shows that this is in fact not a democracy... I use polls to see what AMERICANS beleive in and want... because this is a DEMOCRACY and as such our geopolitcal affairs should be based on the peoples will not of the few... this is called FASCISM or DICTATORSHIP.. Lets face it you would never say the truth in this forum.. your employers would never allow it

[edit on 21-8-2008 by thefreepatriot]

reply to post by Unit541


First of all, it's secede. Second of all, you have presented nothing to back up your Russian propaganda account of this war. Third, you're wrong.

Here's an alternative account for you, which you don't seem to have been aware of.
www.strategypage.com...

reply to post by thefreepatriot


I have absolutely no idea what you just said. I'm serious. What do you mean by you use polls to influence Americans?

Originally posted by Riposte

Originally posted by thefreepatriot
Riposte... Russia was wrong to go in so aggresively.. however you do realise that Georgia has killed over 2000 south ossetians?

That is a blatant lie and you should stop believing the lies coming from Putin's propaganda efforts, that already been acknowledged as being lies from Russia itself.

44-45 dead in Ossetia:
online.wsj.com...
www.hrw.org...

74 dead:
en.apa.az...

i

bull#, as these sources have no evidence to back up , not even witness testimonies

there is a thread, I had started in regards to exposing HRW lies and propagnada with relation to Ossetia
Shameful lies,propaganda and coverup by HRW of Genocide in ossetia exposed
www.abovetopsecret.com...

---

The South Ossetians claim 1,400 dead, thus far, most of them victims of the Georgian assault on Tskhinvali, and Vladimir Putin went so far as to accuse the Georgians of launching a "genocide." According to the BBC, however, "Russia failed to back up its claims of Georgian atrocities." Not that the West is all that interested in airing the evidence. As Variety put it in a piece on how this war is being reported,

"Coverage in the U.S. and Europe is leaning heavily toward reports on the Georgian casualties of Russian bombing over the weekend. Few details are being given about the thousands said to have been killed when Georgia attacked Tskhinvali, the capital of South Ossetia, on Thursday and Friday."

The blatant media bias displayed by the "mainstream" news organizations is more than matched by the shameful cover-up of Georgian atrocities by the mainline "human rights" organizations, first and foremost Human Rights Watch. In the most brazen display of willful ignorance since Walter Duranty overlooked the Soviet gulags, HRW spokeswoman Anna Neistat told the Guardian that Ossetian claims of Georgian atrocities were "suspicious":

"The figure of 2,000 people killed is very doubtful. Our findings so far do not in any way confirm the Russian statistics. On the contrary, they suggest the numbers are exaggerated."

Neistat avers that no more than 44 were killed and around 200 were wounded in the Georgian attack on Tskhinvali. Perhaps she should talk to International Red Cross spokeswoman Anna Nelson, who reports area hospitals "overflowing" with the dead and the wounded.
antiwar.com...

and yes on more on HRW propagnada, look at what it does , claims it was stated by a doctor(whose identity they claim is secret and cannot be disclosed) :

HRW called the Russian death toll figure of 2,000 unfounded, citing a doctor who said that between August 6 to 12 the hospital treated 273 wounded, more military than civilian. The doctor also said that 44 bodies had been brought to the hospital since the fighting began, both military and civilian. According to HRW, "the doctor was adamant that the majority of people killed in the city had been brought to the hospital before being buried"

and as usual , the western media and HRW claims are flimsy at best , as they do not disclose the identity of so called alleged doctor

which , seems that HRW is spewinf propaganda , like other western media outlets , which are spewing one sided propaganda in favour of WEst

here are some eyewitness testimonies :

Fleeing resident Lyudmila Ostayeva, 50, told AP news agency: "I saw bodies lying on the streets, around ruined buildings, in cars. It's impossible to count them now. There is hardly a single building left undamaged." International Red Cross spokeswoman Anna Nelson said it had received reports that hospitals in Tskhinvali were "overflowing" with casualties.
news.bbc.co.uk...

bodies lying around buildings as several witnesses stated and Red Cross and UNO have different things to say , rather than HRW version , which does not even name the alleged doctor

and several others , but HRW and other groups fail to provide proof for the flimsy claims they make ....

they have not named the alleged doctor firstly, on whose basis they make

also, heres a link showing the extensive damage to South Ossetian cities :

in.youtube.com...

Refugees 'escape horror' of South Ossetia battle

Posted Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:40pm AEST
Updated Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:27pm AEST
A South Ossetian woman cries as a girl sleeps on her lap

Russia's Education Minister says authorities will "look for children and people who are hiding in basements" (AFP: Natalia Kolesnikova)

* Related Link: Background: South Ossetia and Abkhazia

A 40-year-old woman stands in the middle of a footpath and bursts into tears after arriving with a convoy of refugees in the embattled Georgian enclave of South Ossetia.

"When the Russians arrived, we were so happy, and after they bombed them [the Georgians]," said the woman called Meri, referring to the Russian assault and air raids on Georgia that forced Tbilisi to pull back its troops from South Ossetia.

She arrived at Java, about 20 kilometres from the main city of Tskhinvali, with a group of refugees, mostly women, escorted by Russian soldiers.

They escaped from the "horror", the one word they all used to describe the scenes of attacks by Georgian troops, battling against Russian and Ossetian rebel forces over the past three days.

One woman told how a family of four including two children tried to flee from a Georgian tank but it "fired on their car and they were all burned" to death, said Angela, who like all the refugees only gave her first name.

In another incident, a woman eight months pregnant and two family members fleeing from the city under attack were hit by tank fire and "nothing remained of them," Angela said.

She saw the Georgian tanks roll into Tskhinvali, the soldiers shouting "Hail Saakashvili," who is the president of Georgia.

"They destroyed the city," added Inna, 33, who said she could not understand how the Georgian troops "could do that to civilians."

"You see your friend's home burning and there's nothing you can do. You just watch and cry, it's a genocide," Inna said.

An old woman among the refugees said all she had left was the dress she was wearing.

"My house is destroyed," she said.

At Java, a refugee camp of tents is being set up in a stadium by the Russian Ministry of Emergency Services, Education Minister Zamira Giova said.
www.abc.net.au...

look at what eye witnesses of the geniocide are saying and yet we have have organzations like HRW pulling out stupid claims that they cannot even support
and yes there are thousands of Ossetian refugees testimonies of a full scale genocide by Georigan forces , to which Western media has turned 'deaf' to

check this out , a testimony by Christian priest who witnessed the killing and raping of children by Georgian forces
uk.youtube.com...
----
www.abovetopsecret.com...


[edit on 21-8-2008 by manson_322]

reply to post by Riposte


just an overun it was corrected. so what time do you clock off?