�Shock And Awe� In Spain

Originally posted by NetStorm

IMO, terrorists are just that, terrorists. They don't care.

They obviously do care if they are willing to kill themselves in order to do these terrible things. You are saying that when America kills people it is ok because they are at 'war' with who they are killing. Do you think the terrorists don't think that they are at war? All killing is murder, unnessecery on both parts.

Yes all killing is essentialy murder, but sometimes its nessesary to protect the things you care about, espesialy when the enemy has no regard for human life. As have said repeatedly there is a big difference between killing for no reason, and killing to achieve an objective that will in the end cause more good than harm such as the liberation of Europe in wwII. No one can deny that despite it being the most terrible war in human history, it was nessesary for us to fight it so that even more pain, suffering, and oppresion would not occur.

On a side note, don't you think what you said about murder is a bit ironic comming from a guy who has an avatar of a man cuting off another guys head?

[Edited on 14-3-2004 by TheEXone]

Ahh ok I see now.

Also try and consider this in too.

Just say from an Iraqi point of view...

Ur country got invaded during the first gulf war. Electricity, water plants, etc were targeted.

Sanctions placed on Iraq so that such things as medical equipment, medicines, water purifying equipment, couldn't be brought in. 500,000 children have since died due to no medical treatment being available for them, water not being pure, disease running rife. Not even mentioning that your kid was born a mutated defect and died basically straight after birth because of what it turned out to be due to all the DU radiation lying around Iraq since the first gulf war.

Now the invaders come back to the country and drop more DU on ur country, and telling u and ur country what to do and cant do again.

Yes you can go after the military that has invaded ur country. They have support of 280 million Americans at home, 500 billion dollars to support the military annually, and support the decision of thier government to invade ur country. Surely there is no way in hell that you can get much of a point across that they shouldn't be invaing ur country or any other country and tleling them what to do and spreading thier WMD and leaving DU accross the lands. LEaving radiation in ur country that caused ur child to be born like a defect.

The poeple in america are sitting back and think it's nice to lob cruise missiles at other countries, throw radiation across other countries, kill their civilians (btw...10,000 iraqi civilians have been killed since the invasion...), while those Americns sit at home, watching it on tv in thier nice cozy houses, while my house jsut got destroyed by an artilery piece that didn't go where it was meant to and killed my wife.


Let me tell you something. If that stuff happened to me...i'd be doing it right back to you if not worse.

You say be honourable and dont murder civilians.
Yet those citizens support the murder of another countries population.

There is no way you and a few thousand poor iraqi's can destroy an american fleet of hundreds of thousands supported by 500 billion dollars worth of financing. That's ridiculous. It wont change a thing. you wont scratch the surface in defeating the invading army.

the only way you're ever going to defeat that army is by changing the views of the people in America.

But by causing more violence ont hem, they wont change thier minds you say? How about even more violence? maybe not...

But...paybacks a bitch, revenge is a bitch, and it aint nice, just as they weren't nice doing it to the iraqi's int he first place.

I guess i can throw a little quote here...

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

Basially treat others like you would have them treat you.

Remember that terrorizm can sometimes stem from revenge.

Life aint pretty, war aint prety, revenge is a bitch

"It is my contention that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder" - Einstein

Notice how the attacks are always against public property and low-to-middle class civilians who have little or nothing to do with a nation's foreign policy decisions.

If there were terrorists who sincerely wanted to provoke a national and international response they'd target the lives, property and investments of the nation's most wealthy.

[Edited on 14-3-2004 by Condorcet]

Originally posted by Condorcet
Notice how the attacks are always against public property and low-to-middle class civilians who have little or nothing to do with a nation's foreign policy decisions.

If there were terrorists who sincerely wanted to provoke a national and international response they'd target the lives, property and investments of the nation's most wealthy.


[Edited on 14-3-2004 by Condorcet]

What do you think the World Trade Towers were?

Originally posted by TheEXone
As i have said repeatedly there is a big difference between killing for no reason, and killing to achieve an objective that will in the end cause more good than harm

On a side note, don't you think what you said about murder is a bit ironic comming from a guy who has an avatar of a man cuting off another guys head?

Yes it's art, not murder.

Art depicting murder. Thats irrelevant anyway, forget I mentioned it.

DaRAGE I uniderstand the point of veiw you are expressing, but you must also understand that it is an irrational pont of view that terrorists often express. It makes no disringtion between intentional targeting of civilians, and strikes on military targets. Yes we have used thousands of cruise missles, and that fact proves what I am saying. They are guided missles that target government and military and government structures, not civilian population areas. Do they miss? yes, are they 100% accurate? no. But we spend millions of dollars on them in order to avoid the mass murder you speak of and claim we commited. As I have said before, and I will for the last time, if we wanted to just kill them all, we need only use chemical and nuclear wepons in one day of combined air strikes to do it.

As for those sanctions, they only restricted economic, and military goods that would have allowed Saddam to rearm and become a threat to the area. Millions in aid both in food, and medical supplies were donated by many countries including our own, most of which ended up in Saddams pocket when he resold them on the black market. In total through that denial of aid, and his 30 years of brutal repression murder he killed over 300,000 of his own people. His people knew that, and thats why when our tanks came rolling into Bagdad they cheered.
Problems may exist now with attacks, but if they wanted us out, a population of 27 million people could make it very difficult for us to operate in the country. All they would have to do is stop working and the whole operation would collapse, so don't tell me they can't stop us. There are many ways to oppose a greater enemy than to kill innocent people, especialy when that enemy tries even to its own danger to prevent excessive loss of life.

Besides the terrorism of Spain had nothing to do with the war in Iraq, it was from we know now carried out by people who aren't even from there, and if anything just use Iraq as an excuse to excecute 200 innocent people many of whom actualy were against the war.

I'm not specifically talking about Iraq...But terrorism in general.

Terrorism is sometimes a means to an end. Yes civilians i feel shouldn't be targeted...But they are in some instances. This could be due to hatred towards those civilians by the terrorists for maybe supporting actions of their country, that have caused the terrorist personal harm, grief, or towards thier country.

Terrorism is an expression of hatred towrds something or a way to get something/someone to change their minds about certain things.

There is no other way to put it.

Civilians will be targeted due to the terrorists point of view. The hatred they have for those civilians or because they think they can change something politically or the thought processes of many.

If i could look through a terrorists mind, eyes, what could I see that would persure me to cause harm to "innocent" civillians? HATRED

But where would this hatred stem from? Figure it out..there are lots of reasons.

[Edited on 14-3-2004 by DaRAGE]

There are reasons for all of the suffering we must go through in life, those that are real, and those that we percieve to be real. Regardless all of us must make a choice, we are responsible for who we choose to be and what we choose to represent. You can either fight suffering through a hatred and fear that will ultimately consume you, or you can choose to rise above the darkness and fight with a sense that even your enemy is a human being, that right makes might, and that justice not vengance is the only thing that will lead to victory. That is honor, and that is the difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter.

[Edited on 14-3-2004 by TheEXone]