Do we really want to elect a Communist?

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


Socialism is not about not not working hard and allowing others to benefit from the fruits of your labour. It is instead about the fruits of your labour staying with you rather then to generate even more wealth for those who already have far more then they need - its about a society working for the benefit of all rather then the few - its about people working hard for the common good. Capitalism is a destructive force - one which has endangered the planet through its systematic abuse of our natural resources for the benefits of profits for the few. A system which has the whole boom bust economic cycle in built which is caused by the over production of goods due to profit motivated competition. One has to ask ones self why the rich in the world continue to get richer and the poor poorer. Has no one else realised the lie we have all been sold - work hard so that your kids will have a better future - if this were the case since the industrial revolution occured more then 150 years ago we would all now have a better future - instead consisten studies show we now work longer hours, are more stressed and more debt ridden then ever before and thats jsut the people in the western world. The work we do en masse benefits by in large those who do little work (i.e the shareholders) and not those who produce the wealth through their own honest labour. Socialism is in esscence a purer democratic form of government whereby the peoples labour benefits each other as a society. Laziness is not a by product of socialism no more then it is of capitalism - lazy people are lazy people. Socialism is merely a better way to live for us all. Please note by the way socialism does not equate stalinism which was a despotic dictatorship system installed into the soviet union from stalins rise to power and which continued until its fall. Please read and learn what true socialism stands for before recycling the old cliches issued by usually verywealthy people for whom socialism is a genuine threat as they would no longer get to store ever increasing zeros in their bank accounts.

Originally posted by TheOracle
I just laugh when i think of all the religious in the US chanting Jesus name but when it comes to share a bit of that paycheck so everyone has something to eat its a big F off.

Here in America, our taxes do provide for food, housing, and medical care for those who are in need both here and abroad. But at some point, these individuals need to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps. No one should expect to be cared for their entire life at the taxpayers expense.

I especially don't feel it's the American taxpayers job to feed the world. They have their own governments that are supposed to perform that function. Charity should be voluntary not mandatory.

And in Europe there are no such things as free rides or handouts. there are benefits for the poor but that is barely to keep them off the street and with a meal, also there are aids for people with lower wages to be able to pay their rent every month. Its help not handout.

It's welfare no matter how you choose to view it. It's supposed to be a temporary thing, not a way of life. This is often referred to as the Welfare Trap or Cycle of Poverty by sociologists. When people are not encouraged to better their situation they become complacent.

[edit on 29-7-2008 by LLoyd45]

Originally posted by Wotan
Now you will probably hate me for saying this but ..........

THe US seems to live in the past, especially the ''this is what we were founded on''. Move on, it was a long time ago, things evolve. Until you can get rid of that baggage the US will be stuck up its own arse.

WW2 was a bloody long time ago - We in the UK have moved on. Its totally irrelevant nowadays. Jeez, we dont go on about the battle of waterloo, trafalgar etc etc.

When has North Korea or Iran ever been a threat to the US?

For a nation that has the amount of wealth the US has, it is very selfish with it. Dont you care about your own citizens? It doesnt look like it from this side of the pond.

To me, the US is a third World Country with money.

DAAAMN Nailed it.

Or a Third World Country with Bourbon Soaked IOU's

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
reply to post by jerico65

 

Amen. I feel the same way. People that work hard for their money shouldn't have to give it to some slackers that don't work, because they know people like Obama will give them whatever they need, to get their vote.

You are giving your money to WarLords for the past 5 years in *unprecedented" numbers. What alternate reality do you live in and can I come crash for a while? "Slackers that don't work" You just described many a corporation that is a just a corporation in name only and gets Corporate Welfare checks that they pick up in Benz's in a Brooks Brother Suit at the Bank. It really does happen, Jericho. Imagine that, you got hoodwinked.

I want you to do something for me. Study how much corporations are getting from the "Gov" I think it's going to surprise you what has been going for the last 3 decades. Who really gives a # if Larry Loafer is getting 5 or 1000 month when David Dividend is getting Government kickbacks you can't even begin to imagine that number. And thats why we are in the situation we are in. This bloated sense of entitlement and this proclaiming of "Im a self made man" When it's all a lie. It's all a lie, Jericho. Just to make you feel better.

Pick up David Kay's "Free Lunch" Because there is a free lunch and it's the most extravagant lunch for the wealthy. I don't doubt we have moochers in our system, but there's a reason why Corporate Welfare isn't talked about on the news or talk radio or Op Ed of Wall Street Journal. Because they all get their CHECK and the corporate media wants to cash it every week.

You are in the same boat as me. You can pretend to identify with the conservative du jour in media, but really you need to see how gravity works.












[edit on 29-7-2008 by MRGERBIK]

Originally posted by XIDIXIDIX
We have socialism, they are called "democrats"

Did you even read my post before coming to this conclusion?

Since when did the demorats advocate workers control of the means of production?

All the demorats are is a kinder gentler version of the republicans, they're still capitalist. The only reason a socialist would vote for them is they're the lesser of two evils (well maybe). I wouldn't vote for either party.

Let's see what other Socialists say...

“The gap between rich and poor increased almost ten-fold. The number of federal prisoners nearly doubled. Clinton ordered US forces into combat situation as many times as his four previous predecessors combined and ended the federal welfare system – something right wing president Ronald Reagan could only dream of doing.”

It has proven time and again to be in no way in the interest of working people to support the Democratic Party.

Shiraz Socialist

All of these candidates, Democrats and Republicans alike, support capitalism. It is capitalism and its contradictions, which are creating all of the domestic and international problems that workers want changed.

Socialist Apeal

Thousands of young people, unionists, and others will be taking to the streets of New York before and during the Republican National Convention to say “Defeat Bush!”...

...We wholeheartedly agree and join with them. And we say, “Defeat Kerry too!” The Republicans and Democrats are twin parties of imperialist war, economic depression, and racist oppression.

The Militant

Two capitalist parties

One major reason that the Bush administration has gotten away with so much has been the behavior of the Democrats. Especially since September 11, but even before, the Democratic leadership in Washington has caved in again and again to the White House. Democrats have often provided Republicans with a comfortable margin of victory, including the resolution authorizing war on Iraq, the USA PATRIOT Act, the misnamed "partial-birth" abortion ban and both of Bush’s tax-cut giveaways to the rich, to name just a few examples...
...On one level, this is nothing new. The Democratic Party’s claim to represent ordinary people has always hidden a different reality. At any point in time, most Democrats are likely to be to the left of most Republicans. But the differences between the two, important though they may be, are really quite small compared to what they share–an agenda that puts the interests of big business first, even if the two parties sometimes disagree about how.

International Socialist Review

The Democrats don't deserve the votes of the millions of people who want the Bush administration's agenda stopped. The task remains of building an alternative to the trap of choosing between a lesser and greater evil at every election.

Socialist Worker

Need any more?...

Originally posted by ANOK


Did you even read my post before coming to this conclusion?

Since when did the demorats advocate workers control of the means of production?

Are YOU SAYING THEY DON'T! HA HA HA

All the demorats are is a kinder gentler version of the republicans, they're still capitalist. The only reason a socialist would vote for them is they're the lesser of two evils (well maybe). I wouldn't vote for either party.

Well I am going to have to regardless ther is one I think is better than the other but the reason pure capitalism doesn't work and where it begins to fail is when it starts getting polluted with socialism as it is now.

I have read all your posts and what you know about socialism you could put on a postage stamp. It works like a football play on a chalk board where the play always looks like a touchdown but as soon as you put it into play where the human element is included, the better team always wins regardless how it looked in the teams locker room chalk board

Most of that "stuff" you are posting in favor of your brand of socialism I have already read and it makes for a great certificate in google test craming for your diploma mill degree in political science but it is obvious you have no REAL knowledge of anything more than what you think is Good Socialism and Bad Capitalism which is nothing BUT bad having no redemptive properties whatsoever. You say Socialism doesn't need Government,

Yeah? You don't think so?

hehe that is funny when you know as much as I do about what you think as a knowitall libertarian socialist.

Let's see what other Socialists say...

I don't give a rats ass what they say, EXAMINE IT and you will understand in practical standards of human behavior and economics IT DOESN'T WORK.

It would take changing our Government little by little over generations to accomplish that. You know,, sort of like those two political party's you dont like have been doing for a long time

Get over yourself, the sooner we get BACK to being capitialists the better off everyone will be.






[edit on 29-7-2008 by XIDIXIDIX]

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
reply to post by rikriley

 

Would the United States military ever consider overthrowing an elected President of the United States Of America if they deemed that the setting President was detrimental to the safety and protection of the Republic and the selling us out to the NWO plus undermining as well as implementing the total dissolutionment of our Constitution?

As a matter of fact, that almost happened in the 1930's, because a group of industrialists felt that the country was heading towards communism, and that Roosevelt was a communist. It was only because General Butler blew the whistle on them at the last moment, that it failed.

Thanks Prof, This is enlightening and it will be interesting how much the rich will take before they react in the near future to this type of similar situation.
If Obama is elected will what be left in our pocketbook be change? Is this what he means by change? Rik Riley

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by XIDIXIDIX

 

XID.....quoting from your last post....."I have read all of your posts mary..."

Man, that is the gayest thing you could have said!!!! It just lacked punctuation.

Now, go read your bible, and thump it again, for the rest of us.......

....."I have read all of your posts mary!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


That better elroy?

Man, that is the gayest thing you could have said!!!!

You adding more punctuation doesn't make me feel any more queer in spite of any wishful thinking I might be.

Now, go read your bible, and thump it again, for the rest of us.......

As per your request

Enjoy-

When you are born again, you are not born with gifts of the Spirit. There may be things in your Christian walk that would indicate your future ministry and the gifts that God would like to impart to you through the laying on of hands and the prophesy of the presbytery. (A presbytery is a gathering of elders who are called by God for this purpose.) You may have natural gifts that God will use. But the Spiritual gifts are different from natural gifts. They are the weapons of our warfare.

1Timothy 4:14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.

1Timothy 4:15 Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.

See the following form more information:

Romans 1:11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;

[edit on 29-7-2008 by XIDIXIDIX]

Alright, enough of this personal squabbling.

Lets elect Obama and reward mediocrity! Work hard all your life, pay taxes, then distribute it to those who think we owe it to them.

reply to post by rikriley


LOL about your comment regarding Obama's change.
As to what the rich will tolerate, I suspect that rather than attempt a coup, if Obama gets in the way, they'll use either bribery or blackmail, or both. But people on both sides of this issue seem to agree that the rich and the corporations hold the upper hand.
What I believe this country needs to do, is go back to what our Founding Fathers envisioned for this country. Freedom is of utmost importance, and socialism and communism sacrifice individual freedom for the good of the state.

reply to post by Wotan


ant that is precisely why your country is now being overtaken by radical Islamists. Look at the most popular name there, Mohammed. A poll released today stated that over one-third of all British Muslims think it is ok to kill for Islam. Keep your stance and see if God will save the Queen.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


One major problem we have is the dumbing down of the U.S. populace by our government operated school systems. Many Americans take freedom for granted and really do not know, understand or are taught what communism is all about and how it will destroy our country along with our way of life if implemented.

Government controlled everything including our media, newspapers, businesses and every aspect of your life including what you say and do. Remember the Soviet Union and the long lines of people waiting just to receive a loaf of bread.

Obama proposes an additional one Trillion dollars of spending if he is elected. I wonder where the money is going to come from maybe from the change in our pocketbooks because that is all you will have left when he taxes the U.S. citizens to death if he is elected.

How many more millions of government jobs will be created in Obamasnation if he is elected? How many more millions of government employees will vote for Obamasnation to keep their government jobs in the future? The Government is not in the business of trading votes for jobs LOL.

Americans work at least 4 months for the government each and every year in order to pay their taxes. Is this considered slavery? Please Obama, please release the millions of tax slaves if you are elected I beg of you. I know you believe in the abolishment of slavery here and throughout the world.

Obama, If you would so kindly release the millions of tax slaves if elected I will so kindly give three cheers to you and your New Nation. Hip Hip Hurray to Obamanation, Hip Hip Hurray to Obamanation, and Hip Hip Hurray to Obamanation. Rik Riley















































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































[edit on 30-7-2008 by rikriley]

Originally posted by ANOK
The state has nothing to do with Socialism.

Quoting select socialist websites doesn't help your case. You may enjoy the ideology, but you have to interact with the rest of us who use legitimate definitions.

See here.

And what countries use socialism?

All countries retain some sort of public control over the market. A fuller example: Spain. PSOE is the government.

Again I’m not a communist, but I agree it’s similar.

Yup.

The fact that State Socialism . . . has overshadowed other forms of Socialism gives it no right to a monopoly of the Socialistic idea.

That would be fine ... if any other examples existed.

Listen... you acknowledge yourself that state socialism is a form of socialism. You also deny Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany were ever socialist.. see the contradiction there?

[edit on 2008/7/30 by SteveR]

Originally posted by ANOK
All the demorats are is a kinder gentler version of the republicans, they're still capitalist.

Most centrists know how to strike a reasoned balance. Why do you despise capitalism? It's the only system that really works. And, it is possible to correct inherent problems.

Well quite frankly I can't stand any of Barack's speeches, just horrible at conveying his campaign message, doesn't seem to connect like the mccain speeches, and really wheres the integrity... hes a horrible candidate...

I don't care if john mccain leads us to ww3 and a whole bunch of other crap, i'd rather see that then have some moron run the country, everytime I watch his speeches on tv I just wanna crack a beer and start laughin at how much effort he tries to put into his campaign, guy can't even get his mic to work correctly... what a moron

Originally posted by SteveR
Most centrists know how to strike a reasoned balance. Why do you despise capitalism? It's the only system that really works. And, it is possible to correct inherent problems.

Actually capitalism really doesn't work. The reason the world is in such a mess now is because of capitalism. It's why we're in Iraq etc. It's why so many in the world are starving. It's why people are losing their homes.

If it wasn't for capitalism we could have been off oil years ago, the only reason we keep using it is because it makes more money than solar, or other cheaper energy sources. What about all the inventions that have been suppressed, because they would hurt someone else’s inflated bank account. This country has been living on debt for years, it’s not making enough money to cover it, the wealth in this country is an illusion. What happens when the monies gone?

Under capitalism you are not free, someone owns you, your boss, your bank, your landlord, your government. It's a master-slave system. The few get to live in luxury while the many struggle with scraps that drop off their table. We are dominated, exploited, coerced, repressed.

How can the individual fully express his own desires when he has to spend most of his time labouring to survive in a system set up to benefit the minority (the top wealthy 5% who own 80% of the wealth).

Some people giving orders and others obeying them: this is the essence of servitude. Of course, as [right-Libertarians] smugly [observe], 'one can at least change jobs,' but you can't avoid having a job -- just as under statism one can at least change nationalities but you can't avoid subjection to one nation-state or another. But freedom means more than the right to change masters. Bob Black ["The Libertarian as Conservative, The Abolition of Work and other essays, p. 147]

‘Freedom means more than the right to change masters’
The only choice you have is to be governed, exploited, or destitute and homeless.

Capitalism destroys freedom…

[w]e stress the advantages of the free enterprise system, we complain about the totalitarian state, but... we have created more or less of a totalitarian system in industry, particularly in large industry. Robert E. Wood, the chief executive officer of Sears, [quoted by Allan Engler, Apostles of Greed, p. 68]

...the fundamental doctrine, that you should be free from domination and control, including the control of the manager and the owner. Chomsky [Feb. 14th, 1992 appearance on Pozner/Donahue].

Capitalism wastes resources, goods and labour. The capitalist over produces, using resources that could be put to better use. It creates miss-management, because people want to make a quick buck, instead of creating a society we can all live in, without needing for anything. It creates a system where there is no counterincentive to not gorge oneself. Then we have to have government intervention to apply rules to stop rampant capitalism, another reason capitalism can never be freedom.

Capitalism creates unemployment. Just as it is efficient for a bank to keep a reserve of cash, it is efficient for capitalism to maintain a reserve of labour.

Crime, inequalities in power and resources creates crime.

I could write a book on what’s wrong with capitalism, but I’ll leave at this for now.

As to your comment about selective socialistic sites, what do want me to quote? If I'm talking about dogs would I quote from a site about cats? You just don't want to accept the truth that you've been lied to by those in power who appose socialism, for obvious reasons.

[edit on 30/7/2008 by ANOK]