Do we really want to elect a Communist?

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posted on Jul, 28 2008 @ 06:59 PM
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Originally posted by mattguy404
Well, I don't think right wing Americans like us commenting about their government.

They seem to have this paranoid fear about the government messing with their lives if they introduced something that even resembled a health care system.

Like I mentioned earlier, the big bail out of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac seems like the government screwing around with the free market, and instilling socialist ideals.


Of all liberal democracies, America is the odd one out in my mind. All I'm hearing on these boards when Obama comes up is "I work for my money and everyone else can go jump!".

Well, if you're so hung up about it, don't pay taxes and don't vote - don't even work!

Have another violent civil war and revolution when Obama is voted in, and install the autocratic theocracy you so desperately want and stop whining about it.




You can talk about our goverment all you want, we sure do it. Just stop trying to tell us what's best for OUR country, and that we are wrong to want what we want for OUR country, and that we should change our beliefs to make other countries happy. If what you have in your country is socialism and it works for you and you like it, who am i to tell you to change it because i don't like it ?


We don't have a "paranoid fear" of the goverment messing with our lives, what we have is a true realization of just how much they will mess with our lives if we allow them to.


Don't ASSUME that all Americans are happy with the bail out of the morgtage industry, it's not like they asked us our opinion on the matter. They're only doing that to help out the corporate world, not us, and they've attached a lot of strings to that bail out. Do you really believe that it will be our goverment that bails them out ?


That's where you're wrong "liberal democracy", this country was founded to be a REPUBLIC, NOT a democracy, and that's where the problem comes in. Americans want their country back, we want our REPUBLIC back, not the democracy that the politicians are trying to turn this country into and would have people believe that is is.


I say that we should go back to what we used to be an isolationist republic. Worry about our own country and keep our noses out of everybody else's business.


Quite honestly voting doesn't make a difference in this country anymore, our votes are wasted, they don't count for squat. Don't get me wrong i will vote, i do every election, i'd just like to have someone worth voting for instead of having to vote for the lesser of two evils.


Don't work ? Maybe you enjoy the mentality of having things handed to you that you didn't work for, but i don't. I may not have much, but what i have i earned through my hard work, nothing was handed to me ! I have no problem with helping out those in need, i'm just tired of seeing people taking advantage of the system. People get up and work hard everyday and struggle just to get by, and then you have those that get the handouts to help with everything, food, rent, medicine, utilities, but drive around in new cars, covered in gold, living in goverment townhouses. That's where the problem comes in, people that don't want to work shouldn't have more than those that do and out of our money ! Sorry for the rant, but if you don't live here you don't see it, so you don't know.


If we were to have another civil war it definately wouldn't be a aucratic theocracy that was put into place. It would be a goverment of the people, by the people, for the people, like our forefathers intended it to be.




posted on Jul, 28 2008 @ 07:16 PM
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reply to post by scientist
 





hard work does not pay off in america.

Tell that to the 95% of Americans that have jobs. I think most Americans realize that to get ahead, you need to work hard, and yes, put effort into your plans, get an education, and learn to get along with people.
If you want to call that business savvy, that's fine. As for Tesla, he was an oddball, that did have some good inventions but also some utter failures. His idiosyncrasies and inability to get along with people did him in. Of course, after his death, people tended to give him more credit than he deserved. Calling Marconi a donkey was typical behavior for Tesla. It's hard to get ahead, when you attack everyone else in your field.
His idea of building a giant Tesla Coil that would "electrify" the entire planet was sheer insanity. Most scientists today admit that it would never have worked. The inefficiency of such a device, aside from the obvious problems it would have created for other technologies, are just a few of the reasons it was sheer madness. When Marconi succeeded in wireless transmissions, Tesla's sponsor pulled out,



posted on Jul, 28 2008 @ 07:18 PM
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Originally posted by SteveR
State owned and managed = socialism.
Theoretically stateless = communism.


LOL so when a socialist tells what socialism is it's a lie? But a statist who has a vested interest in demonising socialism is telling the truth?


You don't like my sources? How about Encyclopedia Britannica?


social and economic doctrine that calls for public rather than private ownership or control of property and natural resources. According to the socialist view, individuals do not live or work in isolation but live in cooperation with one another. Furthermore, everything that people produce is in some sense a social product, and everyone who contributes to the production of a good is entitled to a share in it. Society as a whole, therefore, should own or at least control property for the benefit of all its members.


Socialism does not mean everything has to be state owned. Some socialists do think that, but socialism itself does not need a government at all. That's why I am a libertarian socialist, socialism without a centralised government. Ownership of the means of production by the people who labour for that production, which is the majority of the world.

Socialism is the collective ownership by the people of the means of production, period. How it is implemented can differ from culture to culture. You are focusing on just one form of socialism.



posted on Jul, 28 2008 @ 07:20 PM
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reply to post by chise61
 

I've given your post a star. You put forth quite a few words of wisdom. Nice Job!I agree with about 99% of what you said, (and the remaining 1% concerns trivial matters. Like you, I always vote, and will write in Ron Paul on my ballot. Although I don't agree with everything he says, he's closer to my beliefs than TweedleDee and TweedleDum.



posted on Jul, 28 2008 @ 07:34 PM
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reply to post by ANOK
 





That's why I am a libertarian socialist, socialism without a centralised government.

Interesting. Could you please name countries (or even one) that are libertarian socialist? I'd be interested in knowing of any.



posted on Jul, 28 2008 @ 07:37 PM
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Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage
 





I don't desire being a communist and I know why others wouldn't, but communism is not something I find evil or misguided, and I don't think it is something we should ever involve ourselves in stopping another country from choosing to take on as we have in the past.


It's too bad you couldn't ask the tens of millions of people that were murdered by Joe Stalin whether communism was evil or misguided.


Obviously labeling Stalin as a communist you don't understand what communism really is or how it truly works. We are talking about the original ideal of communism created by Marxx, not our current worlds warped version.

Evil people used communism in evil ways, the same goes for how people have used religion and politics.



posted on Jul, 28 2008 @ 07:42 PM
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reply to post by rikriley
 





Would the United States military ever consider overthrowing an elected President of the United States Of America if they deemed that the setting President was detrimental to the safety and protection of the Republic and the selling us out to the NWO plus undermining as well as implementing the total dissolutionment of our Constitution?


As a matter of fact, that almost happened in the 1930's, because a group of industrialists felt that the country was heading towards communism, and that Roosevelt was a communist. It was only because General Butler blew the whistle on them at the last moment, that it failed.



posted on Jul, 28 2008 @ 07:46 PM
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reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage
 





Obviously labeling Stalin as a communist you don't understand what communism really is or how it truly works.

I understand it a lot more than you do. Virtually every historian labels Stalin a communist, and gives him credit for bringing true communism to the Soviet Union. Believe what you will, but Stalin was a true communist.



posted on Jul, 28 2008 @ 08:06 PM
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Originally posted by ANOK
LOL so when a socialist tells what socialism is it's a lie?


You are not a socialist or a communist. I'm willing to bet you work for a living and satisfy yourself with material purchases like the rest of us.


Keep on dreaming...


Originally posted by ANOK
Vested interest in demonising socialism.


I have no interest in demonising socialism. You are constantly on the defensive about it. I appreciate some socialism. I point out your inaccuracies in saying that Hitler was not socialist, Russia was never socialist. These are comments far below your intellectual level. You know damn well that they were socialist.


Originally posted by ANOK
You don't like my sources? How about Encyclopedia Britannica?


Socialism is enacted by the state. It is government control of the markets. It is a tool of economic management and that is the definition. Any educated fellow will you tell you so. Anything else is communism, and communism seems to be your socialism.


Socialism does not mean everything has to be state owned.


No-one mentioned the word 'everything' only you. All countries use socialism in some form or another.


That's why I am a libertarian socialist, socialism without a centralised government. Ownership of the means of production by the people who labour for that production, which is the majority of the world.


That is communism. You are recycling the same old ideas in a new package to avoid the stigma. Libertarian socialism, it is nothing more than another way of saying communism.

I noticed you rarely reference communism. Why is that?

[edit on 2008/7/28 by SteveR]



posted on Jul, 28 2008 @ 08:12 PM
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reply to post by chise61
 


Well given that neither of our countries regulate this level of free speech, I will continue to comment on your government, and at nauseum if I wish.

On the isolationalist republic, maybe that's the best way for America. From what I've read, the Democrats are actually isolationist - so are you saying that America should vote in an isolationist regime? Many Australians feel that Republicans are better for trade.

I think someone mentioned Australia being unarmed by the government - we have not had rampaging lunatics with guns on campsus and churches since, so I don't really mind.



[edit on 28-7-2008 by mattguy404]



posted on Jul, 28 2008 @ 08:15 PM
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reply to post by mattguy404
 





I think someone mentioned Australia being unarmed by the government - we have had rampaging lunatics with guns on campsus and churches since, so I don't really mind.


The problem with gun control, is that when guns are outlawed, only outlaws have the guns. BTW, Australia is one of the sanest countries in this world today.



posted on Jul, 28 2008 @ 08:46 PM
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Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
reply to post by TheInfamousOne
 





Your democracy is taken away from you with the money that is printed. As for me, I will not be a part of the Illusion that just keeps on churning.

Real democracy is having all potential candidates run at once instead of being weeded out by who can raise a half billion dollars in one year.


First of all, let's get this straight. The US government is NOT a democracy, it is a Republic, with representative government.




I wish everyone would drop the whole "Communism", Capitalism and Socialism bit, we need to start thinking as Global citizens. If you let these "Play On Words" continue, you will never be free.


Another "One Worlder". Look at what a great (not) job the UN has done. What a joke. If that is your concept of Global citizens, I want no part of it. The UN is a poor excuse for second rate nations to rattle the US. It's a total waste. Why hasn't the UN done anything about Darfur, if you people are so concerned about it.

A quote from the former Soviet Union citizens about socialism/communism:

"In the USSR, we pretend to work, and the government pretends to pay us." That certainly sounds like welfare to me.



So lets stay divided and have more wars with lob sided policies? You can try to spin this view all you like. We are a Republic/Democracy. If we were not a Democracy, why to we pick on the little guys, steal their oil but go into the country spreading democracy?


Don't expect the human race to survive with an attitude like this one.

I don't think you really have a choice, the Republic you stand for is going to control the world and make it one world, but for the wrong reasons.

Your views seem to be extremist right wing typical neo-conish with an attitude of "If you don't' understand them, nuke'em"

Sounds like the despot blue print to me. And as of the UN? Bush just singed a law that saws that UN can come in and police American soil in a worse case scenario emergency.

So I guess that makes Bush a Nazi.




[edit on 28/7/2008 by TheInfamousOne]



posted on Jul, 28 2008 @ 08:56 PM
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reply to post by TheInfamousOne
 





Your views seem to be extremist right wing typical neo-conish with an attitude of "If you don't' understand them, nuke'em

Sounds like the despot blue print to me. And as of the UN? Bush just singed a law that saws that UN can come in and police American soil in a worse case scenario emergency.

So I guess that makes Bush a Nazi.



Wow, where in heaven's name did you jump to all of those FALSE conclusions?
First, when did I ever advocate "nuking" anyone. I personally abhor nuclear weapons. They are a no-win weapon of destruction.

Second, I am not a Bush supporter at all. I personally think that he's an incompetent, surrounded by vicious people.

Third, I am not a "neo-con" by any stretch of the imagination. If you had read all of my responses here, you would see that I support Ron Paul.

Name calling serves no purpose but to diminish the name caller. If you can't have a civil discussion without name calling, your stances must not be very supportable.



posted on Jul, 28 2008 @ 09:05 PM
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here is an interesting new article that just appeared on the net, from the Washington Times:
Obama Sowing Socialist seeds -John Voight

Just to quote an except:

This is a perilous time, and more than ever, the world needs a united and strong America. If, God forbid, we live to see Mr. Obama president, we will live through a socialist era that America has not seen before, and our country will be weakened in every way.
Voight is an Academy Award-winning actor who is well-known for his humanitarian work.

Amen, John.



posted on Jul, 28 2008 @ 09:28 PM
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Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage
 





Obviously labeling Stalin as a communist you don't understand what communism really is or how it truly works.

I understand it a lot more than you do. Virtually every historian labels Stalin a communist, and gives him credit for bringing true communism to the Soviet Union. Believe what you will, but Stalin was a true communist.



Which Historians? Can you cite their conclusions?



posted on Jul, 28 2008 @ 09:33 PM
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reply to post by solo1
 


This is Crimson1285, btw. It's not letting me login...

Of course we have been fed propoganda, we're a powerhouse country. All I'm saying is that we're not cowards, we're fighters. I have a friend in the marines and one in the army, both in iraq. I know others there as well, and I'll be damned if you're gonna call people in my family cowards by association.

America stayed out of people's business because our founding fathers are anti-involvement. We didn't single-handedly do anything, but we definitely did help and we've definitely tried to do more than you guys have in the last couple of decades.

----D*mn Europeans----

I'll concede, however, that our education system sucks. Kids in China and India are heads and shoulders above us and I think a guy I heard once on the radio (some Education prof. on C2C AM) said it best:

Chinese children grow up playing "Go," Russian children grow up playing chess, and American children grow up watching television.



posted on Jul, 28 2008 @ 09:35 PM
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reply to post by ProfEmeritus
 


Since you are so interested in communism ProfEmeritus I thought I ask you if you thought Martin Luther King Jr. was a communist. I've suspected as much for some time and wonder if you knew anything on the matter?



posted on Jul, 28 2008 @ 09:44 PM
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reply to post by Wotan
 


You are an empty shell. You are ones about to be swallowed up with
no traditions left and no courage to stand up for GOD, countries in distress, or for that matter your own country.
I don't feel sorry for you , cause you don't deserve it.

To be an American is to be bold. Always has been . Always will be.
USA first and foremost. If you're not one of us - you wouldn't understand

Proud to be an American.



posted on Jul, 28 2008 @ 09:49 PM
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reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage
 

Yes, below is one of the best documents how Stalin, Communism, the Soviet Union, and Comintern worked together hand in hand to advance communism. It debunks, with verifiable sources, the notion that some revisionist historians had, that the Soviet Union wasn't really communist, as you apparently believe.

In Denial: Historians, Communism and Espionage, by John Earl Haynes and Harvey Klehr, San Francisco: Encounter Books, 300 pages, $25.95



posted on Jul, 28 2008 @ 10:00 PM
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reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage
 


Was MLK a communist?
I know of no evidence that proves conclusively that he actually was a card carrying member of the CPUSA. However, the CPUSA DID push his candidacy and did everything it could to foment trouble by driving a wedge between whites and blacks in the US.
In an essay by Evans-Raymond Pierre, a native black of New York City who earned a degree in political science and history at the University of Vermont writes:

...... a member (FBI plant) of the CPUSA (who) testified before a Senate Judiciary Committee in 1979 that "the [communist] cells that I was associated with in Cleveland were continually being asked to raise money for Martin Luther King's activities and to support his movement.... While I was in the Communist Party, as a loyal American Negro, I knew Martin Luther King to be closely connected with the Communist Party...."


Whether he was a communist or not, he was heavily influenced by the CPUSA, attended meetings with CPUSA members, and worked closely with them on many issues.
"If it swins like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it must be a duck."





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