in defence of goats

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kim

posted on Jan, 8 2003 @ 07:05 AM
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ok, so the symbol of satanism is the sigil of baphomet, or the inverse pentagram. the symbol is meant to represent a goats head. why?......
i mean come on! whens the last time a goat was bad to you huh? now what i think, mosquitos should be the animal because they are evil! lets compare shall we. nice little goaty with malaria driven, biting mosquito!
honestly though, whats with the goat thing?




posted on Jan, 8 2003 @ 07:14 AM
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Baphomet has a goats head, the pentagram inversed looks like a goats head.
as far as I remember goats are for some reason associated with sinistrism, although one of the most likely reasons is that they are horned lambs, Lambs pertain to Jesus so a horned lamb may be seen to be the antithesis of this, an anti-christ.

Horns are specifically associated with satan because of the christian bastardisation of hurn the horned God who's image they took to represent their embodyment of evil.

a particularly neat form of propaganda for the pagan peasants.



posted on Jan, 8 2003 @ 09:37 AM
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posted on Jan, 8 2003 @ 09:44 AM
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I don't know why you "lol@this post" this is a good post in sociology and anthropology!


Seriously though, what is the history behind the goat?

With my limited experiences in sociology they made the connection between more religious monotheistic societies, with agriculture (hence why today seems so less religious).

And in biblical terms that agriculture was herding, particularly with sheep in lebenon and in the bible lands.

So what is it a goat might be, more than just a look....might its behaviours be thought of as demonic? Or is it strictly because other pagan religions would sacrifice goats as well, and this was just one more way to keep people from returning to the more popular pagan ways?

Sincerely,
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kim

posted on Jan, 8 2003 @ 10:03 AM
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"more than just a look....might its behaviours be thought of as demonic? "

like i said, theres plenty more demonic animals than goats! and in the end, wasnt the whole image of the horned devil thing made by man? they got it all wrong im telling you. the REAL devil must be a cross between , a mosquito, a goose, a camel, and saddam

also, there are plenty of ppl in the pagan religion. its very RHP and almost considered as 'fluffy' by many occult practisers. whats so "evil" about worshipping your own gods? ppl do it every day.


kim

posted on Jan, 8 2003 @ 10:04 AM
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and dont you laugh at my post mister!



posted on Jan, 8 2003 @ 10:14 AM
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I don't know...it probably has something more to do with herding and jealousy against other pagans than to do with "demonic animals" because what animals are demonic?

Hmm hey TOLTEC!!!! Did the native american's believe any animals to be truly evil?

I don't really think so though I don't know, I think of Vikings (Europes indians
) and they never really had an evil being, they had a "trickster" which some animals do display.

Remember humanities first religions were animism or whatever you call it.

Sincerely,
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posted on Jan, 8 2003 @ 01:45 PM
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FM, the trickster ws Loki. In end he killed all the Norse gods. His three sons did anyways. Midgard Serpent, Fenir the Wolf, and one other.

Anyways... First, reverse pentagram made by christians. Took regualr pentagram from witches and made it evil to get followers. The goat? Well, Hurn, stolen from witches, made evil, so christians could get more followers. Satan a fallen angel, not a cenataur with horns, like Hurn.(Why I like The Devils Advocate, they show him in hell with wings and such, not the christian made evil goatman) The christians then stole all witch holidays and made them christian to get followers.

Kim, the evil animal is a mosquito, this d@mn white rat that won't f'n die and is chewing all my wires up and getting into my cupboards and eating my boxes of mac and cheese, and a rabbit! With sharp pointy teeth and a mean streak a mile wide!(Monty Python and the Search for the Holy Grail)



posted on Jan, 8 2003 @ 01:54 PM
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I know whom the trickster was, I know all about Ragnarok, my point was that Loki is not "evil" he's merely a personality.

Satan is regaurded as "evil" and such...which is a very different view than most pagan religions had.

And your linking the "get followers" bit is most accurate, they even did this with folk-dance and music...which the folk-dance was originally pagan ritual, but they took the ritual out and people just danced to it for "social" reasons.

Sincerely,
no signature



posted on Jan, 9 2003 @ 01:35 AM
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Christians sacrificed a fair few goats; read Leviticus. Goats are very bright, and tend towards bad behaviour, which may contribute to an 'evil' image.

And Loki? Well, evil is a relative term, but he conned a blind God into killing Baldur, most beloved and pure of all the gods. In fact, after his death, every creature in the world but Loki wept for him. Making everyone in the world weep? That's... pretty bad.



posted on Jan, 9 2003 @ 03:02 AM
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Throughout paganism the goat has been a symbol of fertility. For example, fertilty cults which shared or shares some similiarities with witchcraft of various forms. That's my take on it anyway.....


kim

posted on Jan, 9 2003 @ 07:08 AM
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hmm... intresting ,ppl. JTL- lol!
howd you get fertility with 'evil' sandman?
another bugging thing is if lambs are so damned holy- will christians go to hell when they tuck into that lamb chop!? some ppl would call that blasphemy!




posted on Jan, 9 2003 @ 09:05 AM
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I was laughing at the part of the mosquitos which is true, i hate them

Noah should've killed those 2 on the boat.



posted on Jan, 9 2003 @ 09:10 AM
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There's an old saying: "Sheep must be herded; goats must be led."

Goats, as someone observed, tend to think for themselves and can't simply be rounded up in a flock and herded wherever you like.

Sheep (as anyone knows) are pretty darn dumb and can be herded in groups.

...you can draw whatever conclusions you like from that.

As to the goat's head, that's a fairly recent invention (and you can thank the Christians of the Middle Ages for that.)



Baphomet -- , idol or mystical figure that the Knights Templars were ACCUSED of worshiping in the 14th cent. Apparently the name was unknown before that time in Western demonology. Its origin is disputed: it may have been a distorted form of Mahomet (Muhammad); it may have been of Greek origin.


ReligiousTolerance.org also adds:

The inverted pentacle with a goat's head is called the sign of Baphomet. The term may have come from two Greek words, baphe and metis, meaning "absorption of knowledge." It has also been called the Black Goat, Devil's Goat, Goat Head, Goat of Mendes, and Judas Goat. Its first appearance appears to have been during the vicious interrogation of members of the Knights Templar by the Christian Inquisition. There was little consensus among different victims' descriptions of the Baphomet. It can probably be safely assumed that their description of the Baphomet is more a product of the Inquisition's torture methods than of any actual statue that was in use by the Knights


So it is something invented by the Inquisition... by one of the torturers of the Inquisition who wanted the Knights Templar to be Satanic and was trying on all sorts of questions (with torture instruments) to get the people to confess.



posted on Jan, 17 2003 @ 11:11 AM
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No Byrd, christians would never do that, just ask TC or truth. Christians are holy, those people were obviously satan and just saying they were christians.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



posted on Jan, 18 2003 @ 03:26 PM
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I raised Pygmy goats for years. There is NOTHING EVIL about them. Now that Damn Goose is another thing!
(QUARK the goose)) was hand fed and pampered, since he hatched. I would take him for walks and be sure that I had plenty of water for him. He was sooooooooooooo cute! Than he got to be a REALLY BIG Grey Touloose Goose.
There wasn't a day that went by where Quark didn't pinch my ARSE!



posted on Jan, 18 2003 @ 04:24 PM
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Mountain Star, how do you know the goose doesn't think you cute? Sue it for sexual harrasment.



posted on Jan, 18 2003 @ 04:28 PM
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Actually I do know of something which may relate however it may have more to do with a matter related to natural selection, rather than what the legend presents.


It is said that the reason we no longer sacrifice animals to Gods because ultimately a very evil version of the animal is born and kills people. In respect to this I can imagine people using goats for animal sacrifices and as a result, killing those goats which were prone to be less aggressive first.

Goats were commonly used for sacrifices is ancient days as well they were less valued than cows, sheep or horses.



posted on Jan, 18 2003 @ 10:26 PM
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It's the other way around, Toltec. The aggressive ones generally get bumped off first.

A sad example of this is in the city pounds. Nonaggressive animals are the ones given a chance to live. The aggressive ones are killed. Ditto chickens at a farm. And if you have a cow who MIGHT be a milking cow but she nearly stomps you to death every time you get near her, she soon ends up as hamburger.



posted on Jan, 18 2003 @ 10:54 PM
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In relation to picking out your Goat for sacrificing to the Gods you might find it easier to do with a less aggressive animal. Consider that its a ritual packed act and so getting close comes with the territory.

As a result the tamer animals got it first, the more aggressive ones are harder to handle as they generally do not allow humans near them in the first place.





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