China Release New Fighter. The J-10.

The Chinese People's Liberations Army Air Force will soon have a fifth generation fighter jet to replace the aging J-6, J-7, J-8, J-9, MiG-21.
The new J-10 is a Joint Chinese-Israel operation.
The Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC) and the 611 institute began development of the J-10 during the 1980s, as part of an effort to produce a single-engined, single-seat multi-role, fighter to replace the obsolete J-7 fighter and the Q-5 attack aircraft.
In looks the J-10 appears to be very similar to the Euro Fighter Typhoon,
CAC has carried out full tests on 10 prototypes the last being 28 June 2002 when Number 1008 flew its madden flight.
A J-10B has been earmarked as a possible Carrier-based version.
With a reported take off weight of 42,00lb, the J-10 is about 1/3 lighter than the Su-27K deployed aboard Russia's Admiral Kuznetsov, allowing it to operate more easily from a smaller deck, and take off with full load from a Russian-style ski-jump.
China has sharp teeth! Now!


[Edited on 20-2-2004 by John bull 1]

There has been a thread already on the J-10. Whilst it is referred to as a 5th generation fighter, it doesn't compare to the Eurofighter, JSF or F-22. This seems to be more Chicom disinformation more than anything else.

Heres the link to the other thread :

xmb.abovetopsecret.com...

Ahhhh, something for the US Air Force to shoot out of the sky.

The only thing that worries me about the J-10 is that China is capable of producing and astronomical amount of Aircraft. They were building MiGs and Sus for a long time in China and have the know how, man power and expertise to make allot of planes.
Maybe not 5 generation like they presume though they might be going on the analogy that Quantity not Quality! Though even if we they have a happy median, were in trouble.
Do not underestemate your opponent!

If one thing has come to light with warfare in this day and age, it is mass no longer dominates the battlefiled.
China could build 10,000 J-10's, it's just a question of how many missiles the US has, to shoot them down.
As mentioned in a previous post, the weapons of the new fighters are probably more important than the fighter itself. Just look at the US AMRAAM missile, it has over a 90% kill probability from 50km.

...one think to note, thought.

I thought both AA-10 and AA-12 had longer range.

Anyway, official stated AMRAAM range sucks compared to many developments out there. I think *real* stats are far better. USA would be in trouble if not.

What happened to AIM-54, AIAAM and the Firebolt?

Thanks we Europeans have the Meteor...

How long before seeing FMRAAM into service in the USA?

[Edited on 2003-1-10 by MakodFilu]

The Chinese Air Force's problem is their reliance on C2 from ground forces through radar. If they lose their C2 with the ground forces, then their pilots are flying blind.

Also, the basic training of their pilots will make it a turkey shoot for our pilots. There's only a handful of Air Forces out there that train their pilots near the level of our Air Force and China isn't on that list.

what's c2? Clancy hasn't mentioned that, lol. And if they're dependant on that from ground forces that probably won't help them over water, or Taiwan for example.

But you're right.

The J10 could be the best darn fighter jet in the world but w/ out the support they aren't worth the metal they're made out of. Dog fights aren't like used to be, say in WW II, (hey - I watch the discovery channel ya know!! ) Were the migs in Korea not better aircraft yet it was the training of the US pilots that led to their victory? Training, training, training - we could afford to train our pilots and do. Iraq fills their jets with only so much fuel - otherwise the pilots will fly off and defect (it's happened)

US pilots will shoot and kill before the enemy even knows the US is there, consider awacs, training, and doctrine.

J-10B carrier based? Good, let them design and spend money on a carrier based jet only for them to discover the carrier they haven't built yet won't accomodate their carrier based jets.

[Edited on 11-1-2003 by Bob88]

Still spmething else tp worry about.

barba007, indeed! Very worrisome!

My fear is mass production. If they start turning their toy factories in to jet factories they will be able to make a crazy amount of these things.

ya but china needs the toy factory money to build its j-10 fighters

I'll say I have to disagree with the J-10 being the best darn fighter. The new F-22 Raptor easily beats it. With a cruise of mach1.5 plus being able to pull of mach3. More manuverable than a Mig, not to mention new tracking system and weaponry. It guarentees the U.S. with air dominance for at least 10 years. Plus china doesn't have the training to even get close to screwing with us. In the air we have them outclassed (take note of the fact i said in the air considering the fact that if the entire country ran at us with pitchforks they would probably still win. LOL)
But eh if ya wanna take a firm belief in the new J-10. Go ahead but i'ld put my money on a F-22 any day of the week.

There certainly does appear to be a J-10: although both a single and twin-engine model have been sighted.
It shoudln't be too bad a plane if it's ever produced: Russian power-plants inside a Sino-Israeli (i.e. stolen from the US) airframe. F-16-ish, perhaps.
US planes aren't the yardstick: the Chinese want only to be better than anything Uncle Sam sells to the Taiwanese. They'd sell the J-10 abroad as well; but they can't compete with the Rusians in price or quality.
In the interim, the Chinese are purchasing Sukhoi fighters.
As for the aircraft-carrier: probably not unless they scrape together enough money to buy one of the uncompleted Russian semi-hulks. And no reason on earth why the Chinese would want a aircraft-carrier.

I have read that the Chinese want a carrier, so as tp project a presence in the South China Sea. Specifically the Spratly and Paracel Island groups. Currently they don't have the range to project air power over the groups.

They don't need to worry about the Spratly's, Mad Sc. - whether there's oil there, or not. Of the famous 6 claimants: 1 is Taiwan (so, internationally, on balance, non-existent), another is Brunei ( not serious): Malaysia and the Phillippines are less than intimidating and the only strong claimant, Vietnam, does not provoke China. On most counts, China has them because it's "legally" Taiwan.
This is a little local game: no more - China could take them with a large raft.

China is building a Blue Water Navy so that they can project their power in south Pacific just like Japan did in WWII. Blue Water Navies aren't for protecting their shoreline, it's all about being offensive.

Listen guys, the point is not that the F-22 is beter than the J-10. We all know it is. The point is that if China start Mass Producing these J-10 like Bob88 said were in big s#@t!!!!!
I don't care how good of a pilot you are. If you have
10-1 ratio, your in trouble! any which way you look at it!
Also, I realy think China is capable of producing these Aircraft on a large scale.
They have to replace their large fleet of J-7 and other variants(eg. J-6,J-8,J-9 etc).
They have approx. 500 J-7(Don't quote me).
F-22 Raptors cost US $99.7 Million each to make. In comparison the JSF will cost approx. US $30 Million.

Uh...the US Air Force has always gone up against greater numbers vs China and Russia. This isn't a shocker to us.

By the way, the F-22 is supposed to be hard to find for our enemies....thus a few F-22s can easily sneak up on numerous Chinese planes and shoot them down. That's the whole point with the F-22....a few of them can take down plenty of enemy planes due to the best technology in the world.

You act as if the Chinese are going to fight us in an dogfight like you see in the movie Top Gun. Sorry, but the Chinese will never see the F-22 that shoots them down. This isn't hollywood....

[Edited on 13-1-2003 by MT69]

even if the dog fight days weren't over - the US seems to have plenty of enemy planes in their stock to train against and learn from. Anyone know if China has in-air refueling capabilities? I think they don't. And, these J10's - wasn't it's design copied from a single F16 given to Pakistan? (I know it's highly unlike China to copy anything ) - So, they're copying a design from a 30 year old jet. And if Israel is working with them who knows how that will turn out with the US recently asking Israel to stop doing something or another (can't remember what) in regards to China and military cooperation.

Well from your quote Bob88
"Listen guys, the point is not that the F-22 is beter than the J-10. We all know it is. The point is that if China start Mass Producing these J-10 like Bob88 said were in big s#@t!!!!!"
I believe that we have entered a new century where mass numbers no longer matter, but the skill and technology does. With a push of a button an entire nation can be destroyed. It's a sad fact but a true one. But i garuntee a single F-22 could take a squadren of J-10's.
Its like trying to attack a man with an uzi with a stick. Point in being is the technology in the Raptor surpases anything that the world has seen. By equipping stealth techonolgy, new controls, armor, and weaponry the J-10 is just asking for there buts to be handed over to them on plater.