Jobless to work 'clearing litter'

Some people don't seem to "Get it".

Job Seekers Allowance is NOT compulsory, if you are unemployed nobody makes you go sign up. When I left university, I struggled for a while to find a job so I signed on for a couple of months until I found a job. I'd have been quite happy to go and do "something" for that money, right now its ridiculous... you have to go down to the job centre once every fortnight with "proof" that you've been looking for a job. "One item" in your little diary for each day is enough to keep you on the benefit.

For example:
Monday
What You Did: "I checked the local paper for jobs"
What happened: "Nothing"
What will you do next: "I will look again"
Tuesday
What you Did: "I looked on s1jobs.com "
What happened: "I applied for an IT role "
What will you do next: "I will wait to be contacted"

And on and on - Thats enough, whats to stop people just making that crap up?

Plus if you read the article it only affects people who have been on Job Seekers allowance for TWO YEARS or more - how the hell can it possibly take 2 years to find a job?


Its not affecting anyones rights and its not forced labour - no law says you HAVE to sign up for Job Seekers allowance. The second time I was unemployed I didnt bother signing up and just lived off money I had saved up until i got another job. There were no storm troopers bashing the doors down to get me.

reply to post by Dulcimer


Your demeanor has changed throughout the time you have joined this site to the time you have been given mod status but that is a different discussion all together.

My point is you seem like you have no empathy towards others who are unable to work for reasons which are most often then not out of their control. Such as having a mental, physical or other long term disability.

Now forcing these people to endure manual labor when they physically or mentally are unable to do so is no better then rounding up people by the thousands and forcing them to work for pennies on the dollar in labor camps.

And yes this is the kind of thing they did in nazi germany so yea.

I don't know much about politics, so y'all feel free to jump in here and correct me if I say something that's factually wrong. K?

In a Socialist or Communist society, everyone shares equally of what is produced by the group, right? Granted that's overly simplistic, but isn't that the basic idea?

In a Capitalist society, everyone gets the fruits of their own labor, or one could say that each family lives on what the family can produce. Right?

Now, don't get me wrong here - I'm grateful that I don't have to build my own house, raise all my own food, make my own clothes (gosh wouldn't that be a disaster), etc. Money - or an organized system of barter - makes it possible for me to trade the skills I have for the things I need. But the basic premise of the system remains the same; I can have as much 'stuff' as I can buy with the money I and my family make.

Sooo.. which type of society do we have here? Why do you think someone should be able to come and take part of what I produce and give it to someone who doesn't want to have to do anything to support themselves?

Hey Heike .. Leroy don't feel like working this year, so you need to give us some of your money to feed and clothe him. What? I don't think so!

Now, lest you think I'm a cold-hearted survival of the fittest type, if Leroy instead had suffered a lightning strike on his property which burned down his barn and most of his crops, I'd be right there pitching in. No problem. I hope my 'neighbors' will do the same for me if disaster strikes. Or if Leroy got bucked off his horse and broke a leg, same deal. Sure I'll help until his leg heals. But can't you see how that's different from supporting someone who's just - for lack of a better word - lazy?

Now, if you want to live in a Socialist or Communist society, go right ahead! Please! Move. But as I understand it, the USA is a Capitalist society, and that's what I choose. If someday I can't work and it comes back to bite me in the rear, so be it. In the meantime, don't expect me to cheerfully agree to supporting people who don't have anything physically or mentally wrong with them that would prevent them from performing a productive job. I'm a capitalist, and I'd like to keep most of the profits of my labor.

reply to post by CPYKOmega


this proposal never once proposes that the disabled should be impressed into forced labour squads

please stop making up strawmen

admit it - you have not read the article have you ?

I think it's ok to expect people on welfare to work for their money after they've been recieving it for a certain amount of time, however i don't think they should have to work full time for benefits. I believe that the amount of hours that they are forced to work should compare to the amount of benefits they recieve.


I mean the system should at least be fair about it, i'd say that working part time, maybe twenty hours a week would be fair. This way the ones that are inspired to get up and really look for a job will have twenty hours a week to do it in. Their work should also be counted as some kind of experience. Also they should make sure that the ones that have children are provided with good daycare for their children.


If they're going to make it mandatory for these people to work then they should also include at least one day a week for mandatory education/training, even if it's something as simple as a computer skills class.


And while they're at it how bout they get rid of the illegals, so we can actually find a dang job ! Also maybe enforce some kind of tariff on all the American based companies that have chosen to outsource to other countries, taking jobs away from us to save themselves money.



I don't know about other countries, but here in America what really gets under my skin is all the bs they came up with after their so called welfare reform. Their way to reform the welfare system was to push it all over to the social security system. Many people were told by public aid caseworkers to go apply for social security disability benefits.


This crap that's goin on with social security benefits now ticks me off way more than the welfare stuff. As far as i know social security was established so that people would have some kind of income when they retire, or if they legitimately became disabled. And might i add that we pay a damn good portion of our wages to go into that fund.


What i want to know is why are little children recieving social security disability benefits ? Children that are diagnosed with ADHD, are born prematurely, or have other medical disorders are allowed to apply for social security disability benefits and a heck of a lot of them receive them. Now how is a child that is not even allowed to work able to receive benefits that were intended for adults that became disabled and could no longer work because of it. Why does a child need to receive 5-6 hundred dollars a month because they have ADHD, or were born premature and have developemental delays ? Another thing awhile back the parents had to account for where this money went several times a year, show receipts etc, but they no longer have to. It is not at all uncommon to see a woman receiving welfare benefits for a couple kids and disability benefits for one or two other kids.


And what about the adults that are addicted to alchohol or drugs ? I understand that it is in fact an addiction, and therefore a medical problem. But i think that they should have to enroll in some kind of rehabilitation program and be given some kind of time period to get better and get off the disability. Why are they taking money from what working people pay into social security and giving it to people and allowing them to sit home and drink, or do drugs all day without even trying to get better ?


I just don't understand why we are FORCED to put a certain amount of our paycheck into social security for our retirement or in case we become disabled only to have them give it to children and addicts . What's gonna be left of our money for us when we retire ?

[edited to add]

Ahh never mind, best left for another time.




[edit on 21/7/08 by chise61]

reply to post by C.C.Benjamin


I think that would be a great idea. I feel that for the downtrodden to appreciate life for all its worth, they need some kind of stress, they have to dread something in their lives to appreciate and live to the fullest. I think that these jobless people should be forced to clean up our planet. Everybody should make a contribution of some sort!

reply to post by CPYKOmega



Your source for that would be??

Or do you even have one?

This may sound completely heartless, but I am glad that they have to work for $$$$ they get. It bothers me greatly that those who are not working, abusing the welfare system, get my property tax dollars (in my county, every penny goes to the welfare system) when I can't even afford decent health ins. for my own children. (while they enjoy full coverage)

I know some are unable to work & others need a helping hand when things get tough & that is what it was orginally meant for. But I also know a good chunk of the welfare recipients are abusing the system in some fashion & they really tick me off.

Originally posted by slackerwire
reply to post by CPYKOmega

 

Your source for that would be??

Or do you even have one?

Source my brain.

Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin


About damn time! Honestly, within my circle of friends we discuss this regularly, and have been advocates this and a "National project" of sorts.

Cleaning our streets and leaving great monuments for future generations to enjoy are things I believe we should do with those who are simply getting money for nothing. So now, we are half way there...



news.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

So you're 45 years old have worked all your life and paid tens of thousands possibly hundreds in tax. The credit crunch through no fault of your own makes you unemployed. Now YOU want them to pick up litter instead of looking for work? If not how do you distinguish between those who should pick up litter and those who are like the 45 year old?

This has been done before during the Thatcher years. It does not work. It is a gut reaction by people who just cannot work out how to encourage people to work instead of sitting on their butts. The answer is easy.......

Oh and one last point. More money is recover per head in tax avoidance than in benefit fraud. The amount of money defrauded through tax makes the benefits issues seem insignificant. But benefits are for the low end of society the scumbags (!) whereas tax fraudsters are really good guys........

Originally posted by malcr

Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin


About damn time! Honestly, within my circle of friends we discuss this regularly, and have been advocates this and a "National project" of sorts.

Cleaning our streets and leaving great monuments for future generations to enjoy are things I believe we should do with those who are simply getting money for nothing. So now, we are half way there...



news.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

So you're 45 years old have worked all your life and paid tens of thousands possibly hundreds in tax. The credit crunch through no fault of your own makes you unemployed. Now YOU want them to pick up litter instead of looking for work? If not how do you distinguish between those who should pick up litter and those who are like the 45 year old?

This has been done before during the Thatcher years. It does not work. It is a gut reaction by people who just cannot work out how to encourage people to work instead of sitting on their butts. The answer is easy.......

Oh and one last point. More money is recover per head in tax avoidance than in benefit fraud. The amount of money defrauded through tax makes the benefits issues seem insignificant. But benefits are for the low end of society the scumbags (!) whereas tax fraudsters are really good guys........

Um, I disagree entirely. It is taking the softly-softly approach to people who are too bone-idle to do anything, and giving them repeated handouts that doesn't work.

As the immigrant population shows, there is plenty of work to be had. Your assumed situation would only happen if the protagonist did not actually wish to work.

I wonder when they are going to bring the manufacturing jobs back from Asia...

The policies of the Western Governments have forced countless indispensable jobs out of the country. All that is left is service sector jobs - and we all know a society can't survive if it isn't producing and exporting. Doing each other's laundry just won't suffice. There is the Gross Domestic Product to worry about - yeah, or the GDP - they don't talk about that much anymore. I wonder why.

Perhaps we should all just join the army - then we can begin exporting freedom to other countries. Even an old fart like myself can still man a turret - or clear mines (which is more likely...)

The army would be a great alternative for those who refuse to pick up garbage or starve. We really do need more Living Space. We should take it from the more bourgeois nations. Hail the Leader!

Britain, America Uber Alles?




[edit on 22-7-2008 by TruthTellist]

I'd much rather see a regime like this applied to convicted offenders. Compulsory training and education for the long term unemployed is more appropriate and would yield positive long term results. Want I want to see, is the concept of 'restorative justice' taken up by the legal system, with criminals having to make recompense to the community and individuals they have offended against.

reply to post by Fang


Taking jobs away from citizens and exporting them into the Prison-Industrial Complex is always a bad idea - the sight of Chain gangs might give you some satisfaction, unless you lost your job to them.
Road Work and landscaping should be done by paid citizens using the free market system. So should every job.
No private company should be able to run it's business out of a prison. Prisons should not be privately owned.

Prisoners should not be forced to work or punished if they don't. It is not in their sentence , and is unconstitutional. They should be used in emergencies, where emergency supplemental labour is required.

Paying prisoners 15 cents an hour to do the jobs of an honest Citizen is tantamount to the theft of whatever job the prisoner is doing from the Free Market. Why do you think America has so many prisoners? They put them to work, it's like having your own little china.

Get them real jobs, cleaning garbage for toonies a day, wtf is that... I bring in almost 1800 a month just runnin around my office, my girl hasn't worked in 2 years, the other day I exploded on her hardcore and now she might be workin at walmart, its not that they lack the mental capacity, they just get used to social life so much they don't wanna leave... hooked into the loop, I had to practically explode and hand out her resumes myself for her to get off her @zz and work... makes me so mad cuz I can't run the house with 1800 a month, thats ridiculous, I got booze to drink and smokes to smoke, JEEZE, lol.

So ya in general I think the whole litter thing is retarded, just get them real jobs, lol

Originally posted by CPYKOmega


Source my brain.

Translation: You have no factual sources to back up anything you say.

Gotcha.

reply to post by C.C.Benjamin


I am living proof of claiming incapacity benefit here in the U.K. What you have said their is possibly the majority of lazy arsed smack heads & alcoholics who are making it worse for people like me who really do want to work who have no idea how to f**kin integrate with society. I have been in ten jobs since i was 18, i am now 25. These jobs lasted only one week or a month at a time it has been like that since I was five years old since I was at school with moving nine primarily schools.
My girlfriend is 20 stone, she's judged by the way she looks, she has been to interviews and turned her down, she has to now lose weight and learn how to be more confident in this competitive world.



There is some genuine people who are claiming benefits who have genuine problems and who genuinely want work and can not find it or can not keep a job.

Some of the people claiming have been excluded from schools in the past because they have been pushed aside and not taken care of and that's why there is many aggressive criminals about.



I am telling you now, this wont work they will back fire because the people on these's benefits will go to crime to a great extent and you will be in more danger that you even realise.



People on these's benefits consider people like you morngy about the current situations because you are suffering yourself, poor you who has to suffer on mortgages, poor you who has to feed your kids and cant afford it cause your in debt because you want to take them on holiday or you want a nice car. POOR SHAMEFUL YOU WHO CARES TO MUCH ABOUT THE MATERIAL WORLD AND NOT ENOUGH ABOUT YOUR WORLD.



Am sorry, but some of you may not even know the half of it, most of us want to work but we need education but if it comes to that we will make our own business's and become self employed.



its people who want others to suffer that will suffer more greatly than they can ever imagine.

Another thing, do you think I enjoy sitting in the Library all bloody day on the net? do you think I like the fact am around trouble making chavs?.



I want a life and career however how can I? when the world is so competitive now, I have go to college to get anywhere higher, I am 25 I have lost out on a lot of things, by time I finish a qualification Ill be 30 and then ill be to old to consider possibly?.

I need life coaching, anger managment, anxeity management and a few other things well before i can get a job and get to a certain image i want. I like to eb a soilder or a police officer but i had two cautions already so I don't know how that will turn out. To be honest though, I dont think its going to effect the chavs they wont even care.






[edit on 22-7-2008 by deathpoet69]

If there's work that needs doing such as cleaning up graffitti and picking up litter etc, why not give these unemployed people a proper paid job doing this? Surely introducing this will put more people on the dole? Why employ gardeners, painters etc, when the government will supply these people for free...It should have been expected after all we already have pensioners forced to work to make ends meet! How long before unruly teenagers end up being forced into the army so that we can go to war with Iran? This country (UK) is going down the pan...

As an unemployed man wouldn't you rather me here investigating the new world order and informing you guys rather than doing some # job while the elites plan to inprison all of us? If you got a job you dont have time to research this #.

reply to post by Mintwithahole.



of course its going down the pan, its a stuck up materialistic country that do not care for there young and put pressure on society to be in a certain way. To divide the family so much to course anger through the society, i have seen this coming a very long time. They will force teenagers to go in the army because their finding it hard already to get people to join. I wundt fight against iran, ad fight for iran, i don't like england or the western world what so ever ( expect ireland). You have to realise and see now that there is going to be an explosion.

The third world war was not just based on a war with iran or china or any military combat, it was based worldwide to every individual for themselves that's why there is now teenagers forming gangs.



The situation is going to get out of control, I keep warning people and their not listening, I am going to do a video though.



When you walk the street at night when the war comes with Iran, every race will turn against each other to your neighbour to your brother. Your girlfriend/wife may even turn against you if she is not god willing enough.

The muslims will wash you all out, it is infidel to consider materialism as a god loving idol and that is why you are now becoming to judgement day, don't u see it?. God help yah.



The power of the divine whether it is a god or a natural power, it is surfacing. The west will not survive this catastrophic. It wont just hit the western world, but any nation participating in a western adopted society like Japan.



So, not of the subject, by the government applying free slave labour and a continue downfall of economy and their for jobs it will course great unemployment which will then force everyone in the third world war, I think its very obvious.



I agree that it could help get people out of crime but thats only a possibility, it could help motivation, but i think its a more hideous agenda. You wait until the goverment cant pay for the police or for the nhs, thats when the people you rejected will come for you.



And that's coming from a 25 year old incapacity claimant jobless bum who's been out of education since 13.




spell check

[edit on 22-7-2008 by deathpoet69]