WMD's were found in IRAQ.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
reply to post by Damocles

 

Damocles,

I actually liked your post (and expertise), even though I still find the logic lacking.

thanks, i reread my post and sorry that i was such a dick in the way i worded things. not always my intent. and sometimes my logic even escapes me, need to work on my articulation i think lol

Sure Saddam was a threat to somebody. In fact, he was a huge threat to Iran in the 80s, wasn't he? Was it not why the West gave him some know-how with regards to chemical weapons, so he could be even a bigger threat?

well lets not forget he was also a threat to kuwait and his own kurdish citizens as well. my PERSONAL OPINION is also that he got way more help for his wmd program from russia than from us but thats just me.

Fast forward to 2003. Saddam could be a threat to Iran (again), but surely not to the US.

maybe not to the mainland US directly, i dont see him sending the republican guard over on boats with chem mortars, but the US has interests abroad to include the ME as well as allies all over the globe. wouldnt have suprised me in the least to see him bide his time until the sanctions were lifted, rebuild his military programs and make a push for kuwait again.

and while saddam and osama may not get along so well, (osama regarded him as a bad muslim) Al Queda is not the only terrorist organization on the planet who'd love a shot at us. if his military is "misplacing" 500arty chem rnds then how hard would it be for them to "misplace" them into a truck driven by a member of Hamas?

but that also, is just me.

Your certainly don't seem to claim (or do you?) that the US is an equivalent of Superman or Sportacus (in the kids show Lazytown) who arrives on a second's notice and rescues like everyone in 20 miles radius. US in fact never assumed responsibility for neutralizing EVERY threat in the world.

oh dear GOD no. heh im actually more in favor of the US going isolationist for a while. pull all of our military out across the globe and bring them home. we've screwed up enough of the world, let the world screw itself for a while as far as i care.

And it should not, really.

see, we can agree

Again, I totally read you when you mention a chemical shell flying your way. Not cool. I at some point tried one of those protective suits on and it sucks to be in one and have to carry and use your weapon.

hehe, try building an MGB in one...sucks.

Having said that, a few hundred past-their-shelf-life shells pose ZERO threat to the US. Period.

but, the point isn't, or shouldnt be, JUST these 500rnds. the fact is that Saddam was supposed to declare ALL of his stocks and didnt. that in and of itself is a violation of UN resolutions. but more importantly, if this cache went undeclared and undiscovered, do you suppose its the only one?

i mean, the claim was that they went to the dessert and dumped the nerve agents in the sand. that was their story for the "decomissioning" of the program.

ok, great, let my team and i go out to where they dumped the stuff and do some tests. if VX or Sarin or Mustard gas EVER touched that soil, we could find it.

how convienient for Saddam that no one can seem to recall where the stuff was dumped....no?

[edit on 23-7-2008 by Damocles]

[edit on 23-7-2008 by Damocles]

Thanks Damocles.

I am glad I am not the only one that sometimes types things with my passion side instead of my logic filter.

I have found that even the most diametrically opposed ATS'er and I sometimes agree. I suppose there is hope.

The basis of arguments that the USA is threat to everyone is one that I reservedly agree with. We certainly have the capacity to be a threat to the planet and everyone on it including ourselves.

IMHO instead of continuing to apologize for this, we should celebrate it and mount a concerted effort to bring an international community onto the team to use it for the betterment of the planet.

The real problem with this is through inept, corrupt, self centered politicians that we allow to continue to operate in our name - very few countries trust us.

I refuse to lie down and give up on the hope for my children and god-children to have something that at least closely approximates the same promises my father and friends gave to me.

One of the most satisifying benefits I receive from ATS is the reinforcement that I am not alone in this belief.

Originally posted by Damocles
maybe not to the mainland US directly, i dont see him sending the republican guard over on boats with chem mortars, but the US has interests abroad to include the ME as well as allies all over the globe.

Saddam, given the then current Iraq capacity, couldn't possibly pose a meaningful threat to any US ally. You sure must have read (as just one example) how obsolete the Iraqi armor was. Same goes to other branches. In fact, having Saddam as some kind of counterweight to Iran was quite beneficial to the US.

wouldnt have suprised me in the least to see him bide his time until the sanctions were lifted, rebuild his military programs and make a push for kuwait again.

You really believe that? Desert geography affords the US a 1000% opportunity to utilize its awesome air superiority. As has been demonstrated before. Saddam's troops would have been pulverized (as they have been before). Nah...

You see, all your arguments are just too hypthetical and don't even start to justify the invasion. Sure, there were undeclared shells here and there. I'm a pragmatic person and think "let them rot in the sands" instead of "gotcha and prepare to get toasted"

Hey guys I think it's kinda weird that both of your signatures have something to do with the treatment of Dogs.

Kinda cool.

Will

Originally posted by DaleGribble
im starting this thread because im sick of seeing posts saying "what happened to the wmd's in Iraq." and any and every variant of this.

I already know im going to here degraded this and old that. the point is 500 chemical weapons were found. this still may not justify the war but WMD'S WERE FOUND. like it or not they were there.

and this is just a thought I don’t think all of them have been found yet. also I don’t think the whole report has yet been declassified..

Since 2003 Coalition forces have recovered approximately 500 weapons munitions which contain degraded mustard or sarin nerve agent.

source:
www.foxnews.com...

also i dont know if this is in the right place. please move if needed..

old news. what is your argument again? even guns with no ammo count as an imminent threat? this has been known for a long time but the government is not running around going "see? we told you so! nyah nyah nyah nyah!" are they. ask yourself why not? because they are not really WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, they are old parts of what could have been weapons of mass destruction. i can go fishing and make some botulism that would be more dangerous than what they found. would it count to you as a weapon of mass destruction then? would the fish the day before? would the lake for being a home to fish?
you actually need a weapon that can inflict mass destruction, let me repeat CAN ACTUALLY INFLICT MASS DESTRUCTION to be a weapon of mass destruction.

Originally posted by bakednutz
reply to post by Ownification

 

The first nuclear weapons were created in the United States by an international team, including many displaced scientists from central Europe, which included Germany, with assistance from the United Kingdom and Canada during World War II as part of the top-secret Manhattan Project.

Do a little research before you make a statement that you present as fact.


Here is the link to Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org...

OK I've done my research, if I hadn't I wouldn't make such a wild claim since the history we know states America created the Atomic bomb. You have done your research but you haven't done excessive research like me.

Germany tested small atomic bombs successfully.
news.bbc.co.uk...

It was by the help of those German scientists that America created it's first atomic bomb.

Well if you claim the degraded crap was WMDs then i can claim there are WMDs on the moon
I am sure the chemicals are there somewhere
if we dig long enough

The reason you will not hear too much about those degraded WMDs
is that your govt is trembling in their boots you might find out the boxes they are in are marked Made in the USA

Denial ,Americans are going to have to get over the Denial stage and begin to accept their plight. Stand up and be true Americans, don't stoop and look for excuses.
Stand tall and act like your founding fathers did !

President Bush doesn't care about you or the troops he only cares that he takes care of his base the elites of America those that hold Americans in contempt .
While the American people rather have a fictional action hero like
Swartza'n-word' as their govenor than a politician with a degree in politcal science and a degree in civics.
its as simple as that on average the American people are dumber than a door nail .
Them thar degraded WMDS is made in USA I'se a fixin on telling you
y'all better wake up now ya heehaw me

If people woke up, and especially the average American's this thread would just dissappear almost instantly.



Watch it, we will wait

reply to post by re22666


What truly is the weapon?

Nice question, The gun without the bullets is no threat. Thats correct.

WMD? Naw

Nukes? Naw

A knife? Nope again.

The true weapons my friend are the men who would bring oppression and 100% control over the people of the world. It would be the mind of the maniac that would if given even a sliver of a chance, strip you of your lives and freedom to advance their own power and twisted agenda.

Hitler,
Pol Pot,
Mousolini,
Stalin,
Chairman Mao,
Kim Jong Il,
Sadam,

Is it really important to you how they killed the millions they killed?

They are the threat. Their devious intent. Thier historic record.

War for America is about defending our way of life and it is about protecting the innocent, especially our own! We need to stop men likes the ones I've listed above. because they are the weapons. The tools that they would use are just that.

Sadam was there, And now he is not.

Because you hate George Bush; The very man who removed the Butcher of Baghdad. You have somehow twisted your minds and transposed the two.

Evil was removed.

Will

reply to post by William Marshal

Dear Will,

WHAT?????

Sincerely,

Grafilthy

Originally posted by William Marshal
reply to post by re22666

 

What truly is the weapon?

Nice question, The gun without the bullets is no threat. Thats correct.

WMD? Naw

Nukes? Naw

A knife? Nope again.

The true weapons my friend are the men who would bring oppression and 100% control over the people of the world. It would be the mind of the maniac that would if given even a sliver of a chance, strip you of your lives and freedom to advance their own power and twisted agenda.

Hitler,
Pol Pot,
Mousolini,
Stalin,
Chairman Mao,
Kim Jong Il,
Sadam,

Is it really important to you how they killed the millions they killed?

They are the threat. Their devious intent. Thier historic record.

War for America is about defending our way of life and it is about protecting the innocent, especially our own! We need to stop men likes the ones I've listed above. because they are the weapons. The tools that they would use are just that.

Sadam was there, And now he is not.

Because you hate George Bush; The very man who removed the Butcher of Baghdad. You have somehow twisted your minds and transposed the two.

Evil was removed.

Will

your seriously deluded man, your sucked into good verses evil nonsense again. Just wake up soon will you.

The American Government and CIA put Saddam there, your government created them, gave him the power and weapons. To be a WEAPON, as you have nicely putted it. Once he gets his job done, America goes in like the good guy and saves the day. This bullcrap will go on simply, because people like you haven't the slightest notion what reality is.

I'm so sick and tired of the good Vs evil jargon. Their are bad, and not us, we do good things, they do bad things.


The American government is evil, have you got that.

Also war for America?? can you explain to me, about this war since you say everyone else is evil, why does America have weapons too? Sorry I'm kind of lost in who is bad and whos evil again lmao


I'm really hoping that human beings will one day realise how disgraceful the world has become, with the constant brainswashing and nonsense the people of today spoonfeeded by the elites and leaders all the time Really America is DELUDED.

Is it really important to you how they killed the millions they killed?

They are the threat. Their devious intent. Thier historic record.

You could say the same about the Bush Administration to be precise.

Because you hate George Bush; The very man who removed the Butcher of Baghdad. You have somehow twisted your minds and transposed the two.

Evil was removed.

Will

Will please go outside of your country for just at least a few days

Oh and while your here, turn off the T.V please, the crap you sprout is just like the T.V over there, really!

P.S the American government is the root of all evil, so whatever evil was removed, the core evil still exist

[edit on 28-7-2008 by mind is the universe]

Every time I look over at my little side-bar thingey and see the thread title:

"WMD's were found in Iraq..."


I think to myself.....

NO, NO THEY WERE NOT.

If WMD's were found in IRAQ, the Bush administration would be throwing that information at us left and right.

They are in charge of the situation. Nobody else.

So explain to me why they'd want to cover up "proof" that makes them "good guys" ?




You might be sick of tired of hearing it, but that doesnt make it any less true.


[edit on 7/29/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

Originally posted by mind is the universe
Will please go outside of your country for just at least a few days

Oh and while your here, turn off the T.V please, the crap you sprout is just like the T.V over there, really!

P.S the American government is the root of all evil, so whatever evil was removed, the core evil still exist

Yeah, I learned a lot when I was travelling aboard. I learned that in the middle east, women aren't treated as well, or have as many freedoms as they do in the west.

I learned not to cross any cops in Germany or Holland, especially after seeing two Dutch cops smash a woman's face into a glass door, her nose exploding like an overripe tomato.

Seems like everyone here says, "America should stop blaming other countries!!", yet you always read your quote "American Government is the root of ALL evil."

You know, that same American govenment that sent how many BILLIONS of our tax dollars to Africa to help with AIDS research? Guess they'll be sending that back, since it's "dirty" right? Right??

Root of all evil my ass.

Why isn't Colin Powell standing in front of UN shouting for apology, holding WMD in his hand ?

We know Iran has Chem and possible DU.
Enough to permanently poison Israel.

Iran fights asymetrical, in the mall, airport, schools, NASCAR, NFL, etc

How many nukes will it take to stop these attacks ?
How many Nat'l guard will be deployed to protect our border ?

Our troops , our ships are within danger close range of Iran's missles, so is Europe, Israel, Kuwait, etc.

Answer from NeoCon followers is to nuke w/ 1000 warheads.
China will sit still as the radioactive clouds rain down poison ?

What is you answer for that ? More nukes ?

Iran is larger than Afgan-Iraq combined. We can't secure the green zone from mortar fire, IED cement trucks, etc.

It's about Israels security and oil monopoly.
Word is coming that Russia and Indonesia are sitting on worlds major oil fields. Drive down price to $50/barrel, bankrupting OPEC.

Western Elite don't want market flooded by mid east or other superpowers. Russia is out of our hands however. Western illuminati elite do not want China to grow, stall their economy with artificial oil scarcity.

Kind of stalled US economy as well, NeoCons spin this as a good thing, control masses with food and energy shortages. Obama/Zbig see this as a 30yr setback for NWO hidden agenda. Cat is out of bag, people quest authority when rights are taken away, food is made scarce, oil cost soar, etc.

Globalist are patenting Genetic Mod (GM) food to control supply.
Would a starving man trade his gun for food ?

Get food credits, but only with microchip implant that stores digital dollars.
Turn off chip, you starve ! Guns are gone, rural woods are not good to hunt, they are walled off from the NAU Superhighways.

Net 2.0 which superfast has firewalls on this website.
Anyone from China ?
Please reply if you can visit this blacksite.
I won't hold my breath.

I know people are going to jump on my case about this, and I really don't care. If you guys want to spare argument, know that I'm not going to respond to "here we go again's", this is an opinoin, bite me.

I still believe that nuclear munitions were delivered to Saudi Arabia prior to the inspection/invasion of Iraq. Saddam had plenty of time to move them, we messed around way too long with our attention elsewhere. But, then again, I think Bill should've FINISHED THE JOB! (Like he finished...nevermind...crude humor won't work )

[edit on 31.7.2008 by Shugo]

Originally posted by SavageHenry
Geez and McCain and Ghram try to say were "delusional"

What was found in IRAQ is not WMD... They were ALL degraded munitions found in remote pockets.. half buried by time in swamps and so forth from over 15 years ago!

To try to pass this off as the "Smoking Gun" or even a "Valid" point

Is the most incredulous sham I have ever heard.

I am embarrassed for you.

Even to say they were found should tell you that they were lost crap to begin with ... 300 of them were simply empty shells..



[edit on 17-7-2008 by SavageHenry]

THey were un-usable. Saddam used them all in the 80's probably, when he actually did have and WAS using chemical weapons against Iran. Now we invaded the very same country we helped 30 years ago. World politics is so confusing.

The first and most obvious sign that I witnessed live during the push into Iraq, were the stores of Chemical Suits, Gas Masks, and Syringes filled with CHEM Antidotes that were uncovered in almost every fortified Iraqi position. It seems extremely odd to say the least, that the Iraqi MIL would have doled out such precautions unless they had "plans".

Also, most people just simply ignore the SAT-INTEL that produced live footage of truck loads of Munitions and Mobile-Labs headed into Syria. This was even confirmed by the Top-Level Iraqi CHEM/BIO Engineers and Experts.

I also always remember the image of the American MIL digging up buried MiGs which had been hidden for quite a while, well within an American occupied zone. They failed to even discover these buried Aircraft until a Dust Storm exposed their tails. If you can hide an entire grouping of Fighter Jets right under the noses of observant , Munitions seeking MIL Personnel, then how difficult do you think it would be to hide, discard, or export actual Munitions a fraction of the size of just One of these Jets?

How bout them WMDs?

The country has been thoroughly searched, I mean the way Chenney had pitched a tent figured we'd be up to our ears in WMDs by now... but now nobody cares.

Just looking back...


What some Mustard gas? L O L