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WMD's were found in IRAQ.

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posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 10:46 PM
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Originally posted by bakednutz

Well, I guess you are going to have to deal with children. How does that make you feel knowing you are being debated by "children"? I would not even waste my time.

Well thanks for admitting the behaviour. But I care about the world. People like me see the logic and truths to the infection that is plaguing humanity, especially now. America is the core of it, as so are other superpowers. The powertrip amongst the leaders of your country is the number one problem this world has right now. Your own people cannot even stand up to them. The power to one man, I've said it time and time again, is the greatest evil in this world. Human beings are not supposed to worship a fellow human being. We are all one. American elites has spent the last 50 years dividing and controlling us. War is one example. When become aware of this, clarity, logic and the behavour will be revealed to you.



And what dont you understand about not giving up our nuke's until everyone else does? America, as one of the only superpowers, we would be CRAZY to just tell the world, "hey, were getting rid of our nuke's, come attack"! Why dont you ask China and Russia to just get rid of theirs too and then wait to get laughed at. What you are asking is like a joke, but not funny.
The problem in the world, if you can't beat or put up America been a superpower, or dissagree with thier inferioty complex join them. America has the attitude "I'm a superpower I can do what I like" be damned to what anyone else thinks. I'm aware of this attitude amongst some fellow Americans here even now.

If China and Russia or whatever nation is not allowed to have Nucs, then they want to have the same rights as you. I've said this time and time again. It's like kids fighting over toys. If they fight over it. Then you take the toys from all of them. America does not have the power or rights, to decide who should have nucs and who doesn't. The people of America are not godsent people. You have to understand the notions of this very point.




Actually it is not an excuse for anything. How would you feel knowing that EVERY country on earth has Nuclear Weapons? Would that make you feel better? America is the one who invented the atomic bomb, get over it.
I think no nation should have Nucs, including America. But there is just no logic, in America and a few nations having it, and not others. Its really just not going to work like this.

America invented the atomic bomb? why to kill our own kind. Now we are realising how childish you really are. Do you want a trophy for this? Nothing else to say here to be quite honest.



You talk about "logic and behavior" as a sign that "we are children" yet there is no logic in your position. And your "behavior" is like that of a child. Name calling? "You are all children, blah blah blah".

Children don't understand logic as much they tend to cloud themselves with their imaginations instead. Children ignore logic and dont pay attention to their behaviour. When they are wrong, they don't admit it. America is best described as this.




As an American, there is nothing I hate more than war. You need to be careful about generalizations and just assuming since Bush brought on the war in Iraq and Afghanistan
Well It seems to be every few years your country is in one, a great chunk of people over there love it, Its big money business. When are you going to realise that this is the real problem.



If people are afraid that America is just going to nuke them they probably are not all together in the head. Especially people who lives in Ireland. But, maybe there are a lot of paranoid people around the world, I dont know?
Maybe your just ignorant, that's why you don't know.



It is OK for America to have nuclear weapons, that is my position. The Iraq war was a mistake, but, you have just assumed all us "childish Americans" are carbon copies of Bush and LOVE war.
So you said, It's ok for America to have nuclear weapons, WHY, since I asked you already.



Sure America is "provoking Iran"? Are you kidding? Where have you been the last few years? I dont even know what to say to this. Go do some research and get back to me with PROOF that America is provoking Iran into war. I can think of numerous news articles that I could pull and prove the exact opposite.
You watch to much American news. Come outside of the USA and get back to me, I really couldn't be bothered to prove it to you, since your ignorant and most people know that America has been provoking Iran for years.



If Israel wants to attack Iran that is their decision. I really dont care, especially considering they are already launching proxy wars against Israel through various terrorist organizations.
Your wrong right there. I've talked to people from there. Israel has been wanting to attack Iran for years. They want to control the oil there. Your president has even agreed for israel to have full on war. Really just shows how hypocritical and Absurd America really is. The Iranian president does not want a war. The Iranian president would be stupid to think otherwise. America and Israel could easily wipe iran from the map. He has never made any threats to either of the countries. Although he did say he will defend his country if attacked. Bear in mind your president has done nothing but provoke and threaten Iran religiously since January 2007. Your president and the entire Administration have an agenda, you have got to be aware and stop depeding on the news for your sources for christ sakes wake up.



I answered your question about Ireland attacking us? Try it. But as the leaders of you country would realize, THERE IS NO LOGIC IN DOING THAT!!!! Oh snap, the logic thing again, darn. Who exactly do you think should have them? And I highly doubt that America would ask China or Russia to get rid of theirs, so there goes your theory about the attitude America has against EVERY other Country possessing nukes.
Thank you, that is why I asked you
There is no logic. Now step outside YOUR country and see what your country does to other nations for the EXACT same effect.
So your position is if some other nation doesn't behave, you think its ok for USA too do anything to any affect other nations. Again proves my point how childish this is

[edit on 21-7-2008 by mind is the universe]




posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 01:53 AM
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Originally posted by buddhasystem
You wouldn't be throwing in this hypothetical "retooling" if you believed in your argument that those shells you were talking about were a serious WMD threat to the US.

ok so my bad for not SPECIFYING "on the battlefield" in reference to saying that i would err on the side of caution when it came to inbound arty rounds that might contain chem weapons. and yes, yes i would still talk about retooling, cuz as its been pointed out, those shells were degraded. if they were all he had and used them, they may not be effective but if you knew ANYTHING about chemical warfare youd know that it doesnt matter if the chemical itself is viable when fighting actual soldiers on the battlefield. but chances are that if he was going to replace his chem weapons, it wouldnt have taken him long to do it.

so, my bad, i do that sometimes..you know, give people reading my posts credit for not needing all the fine points spelled out.


I heard that a spaghetti factory can be retooled for the production of artillery shell gunpowder.

probably can, but nerve agents are essentially just really strong pesticides and iraq has pesticide factories. change the mix of the precursor chemicals and boom you got sarin or vx. so which is more likely, that he'll build some spaghetti factories so that he can make gunpowder covertly or that he'd use his pesticide factories to make nerve agents covertly? and therin lies a lot of the problems with the UN inspections etc. he'd block access to certain areas until they were able to "clean up" so to speak. all of this in violation of UN sanctions and resolutions.


To suggest that Saddam was a threat to the US is quite disingenious, imho.

ya know, the only thing that really annoys me about internet forums is when someone either reads a post, finds somethign they dont like and then takes me out of context or they DO read the whole post and quote me out of context in the hope that no one else read my post so that they can try to throw my words back at me.

cuz if you had read it all and quoted me accuratly youd have had to admit that i also said:

Originally posted by Damocles so im not going to justify the invasion. its a little late to worry about the why's now. but dont for one second think that saddam was not a threat to anyone. maybe not us in the mainland US but despite the feelings of some, we're not the only ones on this planet



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 02:05 AM
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Originally posted by SRTkid86
what the hell am i paying 4.20/gallion for 93 octane if we are stealing there oil? they are still getting all the money from their oil, and they aren't having to pay for any of the stuff we are doing over there to help them


It takes a while to figure it out, but once you understand you can never go back. American government is not overthrowing oil rich countries so they can yoink the oil, and give the American people cheaper oil. They are yoinking it so they can sell American people EXPENSIVE oil, caused by an artificial bottleneck. The artificial bottleneck is #1 Them lying about how much refined oil there is, and #2 them shutting down refineries so they have less to lie about.


[edit on 22-7-2008 by unnamedninja]



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 04:55 AM
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Great title "WMD's were found in IRAQ"
DaleGribble you made me laugh... weren't you at another topic earlier saying same crap? Yea it was you!

After all that has happened with this Administration and Mr. Bush should I trust that report... I think not.... funny thing is in the other post it was about "Why WMD's weren't planted..." no need to plant anything... just play with the Media... they will do the that job as you can see!

By the way... stop attacking every poster with stupid comments about how bright they are... it just backfires

US attacked Iraq because Sadam wasn't dancing anymore... 500... No even 5000 of these weapons is not a reason to attack a country... I don’t understand why everyone thinks US are the good guys...

In any case... just that one report without data to back it up just isn’t enough... 500 rusty weapons just isn’t enough of a reason to invade other country... this administration and Mr. Bush are criminals and should be punished according the law... yet some think it isn’t enough of a reason to to do so...I wonder what they must do for people to realize... Imprisonment without right to defend yourself? Take all your rights away to protect you from Terrorists? Oh wait... Isn’t it what is happening right now...?



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 07:04 AM
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reply to post by mind is the universe
 


Well, frankly, I am tired of debating this with you. I still do not agree with anything you say and you will never agree with me. So, it only seems logical to just "agree to disagree". You insist on calling Americans "childish" and think that you have all the answers to the worlds problems like it is simple. Americans are not "childish" IMO but it is just that, my opinion. Maybe you should start writing letters to all the leaders of the countries who posses nuclear weapons and detail your plan as to how to get rid of them. We could go on and on debating this but, I just dont see the point. Maybe on another thread in the future.


Cheers



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 09:33 AM
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Originally posted by bakednutz
reply to post by mind is the universe
 


Well, frankly, I am tired of debating this with you. I still do not agree with anything you say and you will never agree with me. So, it only seems logical to just "agree to disagree". You insist on calling Americans "childish" and think that you have all the answers to the worlds problems like it is simple. Americans are not "childish" IMO but it is just that, my opinion. Maybe you should start writing letters to all the leaders of the countries who posses nuclear weapons and detail your plan as to how to get rid of them. We could go on and on debating this but, I just dont see the point. Maybe on another thread in the future.


Cheers


well at leasI have answers you just waffle, praise and nit pick. You make petty points that just don't justify any of the behaviour of the last year. None of the last 8 years of war and contankerous stupidy from your soil was justified. It's getting you nowhere, Even now, with that attitude.

Your country's behaviour is unacceptable.

Deal with that. I know people like you find that exceptionally hard to admit. It's called maturing and being self aware. You can sing and dance about this been a post to attack, it's not. Its about you learning to wake up and take responsibility your country has led this world into, The chaos and war just for the sake to keep their country powerful dominnant. America is a superpower for this reason only. It takes from other nations, it fights other nations, provokes other nations, destroys other nations, this all the behaviour YOUR country does, to keep the title of being a superpower.

Quite frankly I don't care if you dissagree with me. I've told you and other's my point, America is not a godsent country, its not a good country. The arrogance and ignorance has to be stripped down now. It's your choice to do something. It's your power and responsibilty to change. Its your power on the line, if let your country attack another nation............. TURN OF THE T.V and DO SOMETHING.

Instead of behaving like a child blaming the rest of the world.


[edit on 22-7-2008 by mind is the universe]



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 09:38 AM
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reply to post by mind is the universe
 


Turn off the TV???? What? Im trying my best not to belittle you right here on this thread, so just let it be. I dont even watch news on TV. It is all bias and probably controlled by our government. If you hate America that bad, do something about it, im sure Al Qaeda is recruiting.


[edit on 22-7-2008 by bakednutz]



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 09:41 AM
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reply to post by bakednutz
 


I am doing something about it, more than you'll ever know.

Besides at least I am doing something about it. Its America that steps on our soil. We don't accept this selfish behavour.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 09:45 AM
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Originally posted by bakednutz
im sure Al Qaeda is recruiting.


You mean the CIA controled agency "COUGH" COUGH


you must believe that al queada is just random organization that justs wants to attack Amerca lol. So I ask you the question, is this really accurate. Or there is small possiblity that YOUR government creates enemies???

They do this indirectly, We know that. But is there any possibility. Whereby they create an enemy directly. Like Al Qaeda is run by the CIA



Some people might want to wake up



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 09:49 AM
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reply to post by mind is the universe
 


Al Qaeda is not controlled by the CIA. It has nothing to do with it. If you want to be some crazy conspiracy theorist thats fine. Why dont you start a thread in the conspiracy forum and tell us Americans all about it since you seem to be an expert. This is my last post to you on this thread because we are way off topic now.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 10:26 AM
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reply to post by bakednutz
 


We live in a crazy world. The last 8 years was a bit mad, don't you think.


But you keep believing people and your leaders

Back on topic.

The source of this thread is fox news. You know people really shouldnt be taking this thread so seriously anyway.


[edit on 22-7-2008 by mind is the universe]



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 11:17 AM
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reply to post by Damocles
 



Damocles,

I actually liked your post (and expertise), even though I still find the logic lacking. Sure Saddam was a threat to somebody. In fact, he was a huge threat to Iran in the 80s, wasn't he? Was it not why the West gave him some know-how with regards to chemical weapons, so he could be even a bigger threat?

Fast forward to 2003. Saddam could be a threat to Iran (again), but surely not to the US. Your certainly don't seem to claim (or do you?) that the US is an equivalent of Superman or Sportacus (in the kids show Lazytown) who arrives on a second's notice and rescues like everyone in 20 miles radius. US in fact never assumed responsibility for neutralizing EVERY threat in the world. And it should not, really.

Again, I totally read you when you mention a chemical shell flying your way. Not cool. I at some point tried one of those protective suits on and it sucks to be in one and have to carry and use your weapon. Having said that, a few hundred past-their-shelf-life shells pose ZERO threat to the US. Period.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 11:41 AM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 11:45 AM
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reply to post by homo_borg
 




I do hope all your soldiers die in Iraq.


I'm a liberal.....and i challenge you to a fist fight (if the mods approve.)



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 11:54 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by Blaine91555
Negotiating only works with rational people. How do you negotiate with people who blow up their neighbors while they are shopping or driving down the road?


By supplying them with deadly gas weapons?
You do realize that it was Iraq who INITIATED the war with Iran? Please grow a brain.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 12:14 PM
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Originally posted by jerico65
If you do a bit of research, you'd realize that the US isn't the only country selling weapons. Why do you think the weapon of choice to so many countries is the AK? Last time I checked, the AK was made in Russia. I don't think they were giving them away for free.

Chinese weapons are in the Sudan. The French sell weapons to everyone and their brothers.



Because of the AK's utter superiority? If you do a bit of research, other countries sell only conventional weapons, not deadly nerve gasses (at least not publicly
)



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by SRTkid86

and also, how many time do you need to be told. WE ARE NOT STEALING OIL


I'll believe that when the unicorn poops on the crown of Lady Liberty.



Originally posted by SRTkid86what the hell am i paying 4.20/gallion for 93 octane if we are stealing there oil? they are still getting all the money from their oil, and they aren't having to pay for any of the stuff we are doing over there to help them


Speculative trading. And thanks to insurgents who keep blowing up pipelines and drilling facilities, you won't get any oil for quite a while.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 12:46 PM
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THANK YOU MODS.......


This troll gotta go.



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 08:52 PM
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Ok I will admit I have not read every post here. Sorry if this is a repeat.

Sadam Hussein used Chemical Weapons.

About 180,000 kurds were KILLED with them. (Not discomforted)

www.abc.net.au...

NATO, the UN, and The Geneva Convention were created so we could all look out for one another. To prevent Atrocities and enhance human rights. Now I'm not intending the brag but since the US is one of the strongest (economicly and militarily) members of these organizations. I would think you would understand that it's a responsibility for us to look beyond our own borders. Keeping ourselves safe is only part of the issue. I think that Post WWI and WWII we are expected to step up when needed. The UN did pass the resoulutions did they not?

I respect the fact that a lot of you disagree. But given the power of hindsight I believe there would be more outrage if we did nothing and let something truly horrible transpire. I guess we are dammed if we do and Dammed if we dont. But hey we have broad shoulders.

I do enjoy our current president because I truly see his vision. BUT I recognize that there are a lot of people that hate him. For that I'm sorry, and I kinda look forward to the election. He will be gone in just a few short months and you can shift your focus from all of this.

America is a great country. we have survived much. We will survive much more. I'm not worried about who our next president is. We are really a strong nation. I wanted to see more freedom blossom around the world through the creation of democracies. But ultimaley I believe we are safer here between the borders of Mexico and Canada that those of you in other parts of the world. It's you I mostly worry about. I hope I'm wrong. Peace on you and yours.

Will




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