Why do Asian students generally get higher marks than Latinos?

I teach English in Taiwan. I have to say that it is a cultural difference. Asian families value education so much that they sacrifice just about anything just to get a good one. At the private school I work at, I'll see kids ride to school on scooters in the rain with their moms. These are parents that are paying over $1000 a month tuition and they will pay for that before they will buy a car. If I grew up seeing my parents scrimp and save just to pay for my education, I'd probably feel immense pressure to do well in school, also. Another factor is that Asian children are the "retirement plan". There are very few retirement villages here and most parents live with their children. The children have to make enough money to support their parents and their own children.

Culture. Just compare the average Asian work ethic to the average African American work ethic. You really can't.

I need to start hanging around more Asians. My university has a ton of them, and I haven't met one I haven't gotten along with. Maybe I'll start doing homework.

'Course, we can't completely rule out any genetic influence.

[edit on 19-7-2008 by Johnmike]

Well I am Asian Myself, specifically chinese, and although I dont live in the USA, I would agree with many of you all saying that home life does affect your character and such. Asians place more emphasis on education, or rather ALOT of emphasis on education. It is just our culture. I am a singaporean and 70% of my countrymen are chinese. Our secondary or rather middle school students have the highest scores in Maths and Science Tests in the WORLD. It just boils down to your culture and how our parents view education, which is in fact very very important to them.

Cheers

Hi, I'm Liquid, and today I'll be your local low grade point average Asian student. At your service~!

Jokes aside, I read somewhere (Wikipedia; the source may not be valid) that the higher the social class of the race, the higher the test scores (in general). For example, whilst whites in the US may get the best scores, in a place where Anglo-Saxon is NOT the predominant race, they would get worse scores. This is extremely general, though.

EDIT: As others mentioned, though, I'll agree that culture probably is a part of it. If your parents drill into you that you need to work as soon as you're old enough rather than studying hard to get that doctorate in underwater basket weaving, then methinks that you'd be a bit more inclined to do the former.

[edit on 19-7-2008 by LiquidTheBrit0]

A few hundred thousand years of evolution apparently had a positive affect on their i.q.

Either that or maybe its the rice and the O2 levels. Perhaps if we just fed hispanic children japanese rice at school, or added extra oxygen to the classroom we could fix the problem. That would be so easy!

reply to post by Alxandro


Spot on. And ALL kinds of people use this type of data on all sides to justify different types of discrimination.

I believe there is a distinction between acknowledging cultural diversity and discriminating.

Originally posted by alkali
No one in the school system really wants to get to the truth of this issue due to political correctness.

Presuming that this has something to with with being PC and isn't relatively easy to explain by immigration and migration trends...

They're afraid of offending people and having an incredibly stupid issue like the one in Dallas over Black Holes being racist.

I wish i could agree but while there are so many hungry Americans i doubt this is about causing 'offense' as much as it is about predetermined agenda's.

Anyway, the well-known biologist, James Watson, thinks it is related to genes.

Sure his well known but then Darwin was well known and also a racist. I am still undecided as to where Watson falls but his probably not innocent considering all the things he has in the past said. While i have sympathy with his clarifications and qualifications his bias does seem to show...

Of course, there is, no-doubt, a cultural aspect as well. According to a journal by psychologists from UC Berkley and The University of Western Ontario, Asian-Americans are the smartest of the groups in the US with an average IQ of 106.

Since psychology isn't science i wont give them much credit and will just presume to offer explanations for how their claims can be explained if true. I am also presuming that IQ tests are in fact meaningful and isn't just a summary for what capitalist would like to see in their ideal worker.That being said then:

Asian Americans obviously had to come a longer way to get American and it wasn't so often in slave boats either. Since many of the older Asian American families ( third and fourth generation, to say nothing of those who came before ) served the American/British empires in Asia they are logically going to be people with more general ability which at first made them useful allies in Asia. The more recent flood of Asian American students ( who then sometimes stay) were also on scholarships which means that they were preselected from a far larger pool to receive state grants ( china/South Korea/japan) to study in the US. Basically it's very logical that the small Asian-American population represents far more selective pressure and coupled with the cultural traits of more regimented societies it stands to reason that they will not only have higher general IQ's but also possibly be more strongly motivated to excel.

White Americans come in second with an average IQ of 103;

And since the 'average' IQ of a population is supposed to be 100 you really have to wonder about these psychologist when they try to apply scientific methods. White Americans are supposed to have average of 100 as that's the group IQ tests are designed for.

Latinos, 89;

I am sure the 'latino's' who have iq's of 100 ( as would have to be the average in their countries) simply stayed in their countries of origin as they held the power and the control over land with those who are less able ( or just decent enough not to want to exploit and terrorize their fellow's for profit) being able to leave overland for a country where the same hard work might enable a far higher standard of living. I am not suggesting that the worse types are always smarter but that the capitalist system itself results in smart folks with certain predispositions being enabled to gain far more than their fair share.

African-Americans, 85.

And this might very well be the case given that those IQ tests were not designed with African-Americans in mind. While that alone might 'solve' the riddle i feel it may be useful to point out that African Americans were 'kidnapped' from Africa over a relatively long span of time with the more intelligent one's being systematically assassinated over time given their greater ability to organize resistance against oppression. Maybe it was just the emphasis slave traders who caught people in Africa put on brawn? Who did they throw overboard first when there wasn't enough food left on the trans Atlantic voyage? I don't wish to argue that the physically strong are not mentally up the task but given the emphasis on brawn ( the odds of being very strong as well as very knowledge is somewhat contradictory) this alone might explain why African Americans MIGHT score lower on a test designed for 'Africans' still on the continent..

That follows Watson's ideas about intelligence related to genetics.

Somewhat yes but he denies that there is scientific evidence that makes it obvious that some 'races' ( and 'races' are not in fact very descriptive) are genetically inferior.

There has actually been some research on intelligence related genes regarding Jews. Kinda neat. Google it.

If there is i would like to see that. That being said are we talking about 'Jews' ( meaning Semitic Jews ) or just whoever converted or were born to converts? Before that is made clear any discussion is going to be pretty damn meaningless.

Stellar

Originally posted by TKainZero


2 groups of American imigrants...

The officals are trying to figure it out.

Can you?

www.latimes.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

That is easy, it is because the parents drive them harder. This is also the reason the suicide rates are higher with Asian kids

(btw, it is "immigrants, officials...and hey guess what! i am half latina!, go figure)

Ok someone earlier raised an interesting point. He mentioned the ethnicity of bums in the street.

I have never ever in my life seen an Asian bum.


I have seen virtually every other type.

In my part of the world it is mostly mexican, and white bums, with a few blacks here and there.

Here are my bum stats for where I live, these are not official by any means, just my observation throughout my life.

BUMS BY RACE:

35% White
30% Hispanic
25% Black
10% Other
0% Asian


I don't mean to offend anyone but it is the truth.

Originally posted by StellarXIf there is i would like to see that. That being said are we talking about 'Jews' ( meaning Semitic Jews ) or just whoever converted or were born to converts? Before that is made clear any discussion is going to be pretty damn meaningless.

Its actually Ashkenazi Jews (European Jews), and converts don't really count. They have the highest iq of any specific group, averaging something like 125 or so. Course that will change as many are becoming secular and are marrying outside of their group.

[edit on 19-7-2008 by Sonya610]

reply to post by TKainZero


Its simple. The culture of the Asians where parents are always making sure their kids have a better future than even them! Make sure that their kids would be care about them as they get older, very devious of them.

Another is that parents both the father and mother don't seperate, which helps kids have good socioeconomic status where they are taken care of. Go to an Asian church, particular Vietnamese and you will see both mom and dad with the kids, not like one single dad or one single mom with kids that they have to take care of in other churches of whites or blacks. I visited some just to see how Asian families are compare to others so I can understand my students better from different backgrounds.

Also, they tend to be smart about taking care of how they spend their money, which they will teach their kids about accountability.

Finally, don't assume that just cause they are Asian, they are the best. Somehow in an environment when like some Asian teenage girl with a child is abandoned by the father and she has to take care of the child herself, then she is like any other single mother teenager with a child and living in poverty, of course she be lucky to have her family take care of the child while she continues to pursue her education.

Even the families of Latinos, Caucasians, and Africans emphasize the importance of their kids education as the top priority, then they can be just as good as any Asian child whether from East Asia or South Asia (meaning people from India or Pakistan if giving the same opportunity if they lived in the U.S.).

Originally posted by FathomThat is easy, it is because the parents drive them harder. This is also the reason the suicide rates are higher with Asian kids.

Suicide rates are typically inversely proportionate to homicide rates. Cultures that have high murder rates have lower suicide, and the opposite is true as well.

Asians that immigrate to the US have very low rates of homicide.

The Asian families that I know sacrifice everything to give there children educations and in turn there children grow up usually exceeding their parents success. I don't know if they just want their kids to succeed or they just want to make sure their kids take care of them in their old age. Maybe both.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of it is genetic and then again you have to consider that Asians are big consumers and tend to want nice products and try to dress sharply as well.

I think Latinos are generally more laid back, are not obsessed with success in education as much as Asians. They just want enough to get by and they are pretty easy to please. In some ways they are smarter as they would rather buy a used working car and spend more time with their families, whereas I think Asians would rather work overtime to have that 50k status symbol. Both are happy but each are happy in different ways.

[edit on 19-7-2008 by verylowfrequency]

Originally posted by Sonya610
Its actually Ashkenazi Jews (European Jews), and converts don't really count.

It's actually what? Do you think that 'ashkenazi' have a higher IQ and if so why do you and what sources do you base it on?

They have the highest iq of any specific group, averaging something like 125 or so.

That's hilarious , in my opinion any ways, and i hope your going to treat us to some sources for these claims.

Course that will change as many are becoming secular and are marrying outside of their group.

What does becoming secular have to do with anything when 'ashkenazi' are not a distinct group to start with?

Stellar

Originally posted by downtown436
Ok someone earlier raised an interesting point. He mentioned the ethnicity of bums in the street.

I have never ever in my life seen an Asian bum.


I have seen virtually every other type.

In my part of the world it is mostly mexican, and white bums, with a few blacks here and there.

Here are my bum stats for where I live, these are not official by any means, just my observation throughout my life.

BUMS BY RACE:

35% White
30% Hispanic
25% Black
10% Other
0% Asian


I don't mean to offend anyone but it is the truth.

It was probably one of my previous posts.
Are you sure those Hispanics you saw are not Native American?

I wasn't talking about bums as a whole, I was referring to the people that come up to you and flat out ask for cash.
In my experience they've either always been Black or White, that's the truth.

You must not have a large number of Blacks in your town that may influence the others.

Here in the Dallas area, I always see groups of Hispanics that hang out in certain areas of town too, but these are people that are there ready to work on the fly.
If you need a chore done just drive down to this group and ask who would be willing to work for a few hours for x amount an hour and I guarantee they won't hesitate in volunteering.
Big difference between this and begging.
A lot has to do with demographics too and while Dallas has a very high number of illegals, I have never seen a Hispanic begging for cash.

Originally posted by StellarX It's actually what? Do you think that 'ashkenazi' have a higher IQ and if so why do you and what sources do you base it on? That's hilarious , in my opinion any ways, and i hope your going to treat us to some sources for these claims.

You rather rude tone is not pleasing. You are just the sort of poster that demands sources and then fails to respond when sources are provided. Just because you apparently have NEVER researched IQ difference among different ethnic groups that does NOT mean there is no difference.

Do a search on google for “Ashkenazi Jew I.Q.” and you will see a bunch of articles. Or is that too difficult?

From my observation having worked with many Asian engineers and Latin engineers, the Asians are not any smarter, but they are much more conformist. They go to school and concentrate on getting good grades, not on understanding the subject matter, and the two are very different goals. It is sad how bad, and off track our nation's education is, which is why most of our technical break throughs do not come from college educated engineers.

Also, it is my observation that Asians cheat with a vengeance in order to get good grades. Having taken many tests in the midst of Asian students, that has been one of my biggest observations. The result is a large number of very bad Asian engineers being out there in the field. Then again, I have met large numbers of bad college engineers from all races who get lost doing basic algebra. The guy has the degree, you crank through a basic power formula that the engineer should know by heart, and he reaches for his calculator. Sad.

reply to post by Alxandro


I would second this statement, it is also my observation here in CA.

If you go to Asia, you will see many homeless people. Blacks and whites being the largest groups here in the U.S., tend to make up the largest population of bums living on the street, although there are Latin bums out there, but they grew up in the U.S.. It is also my observation that the bums on the streets of San Francisco are an aging bunch of old hippy drop outs.

When I was a kid, our parents taught us to work hard and get good grades in school, so that we can secure a better future.

Parents will do whatever they can to give their child the best education, pre-school, kindergarten, all the way up to the best university, sparing no expense, limitless time and effort.

There is a very well known idiom in Chinese.

"In books is where you find your golden house. In books is where you find a gorgous woman."

reply to post by Sonya610


If Asians and Jews are superior technologically, then why are Whites and Latinos better at developing technology. Yeah, Einstein has been given credit for being the smartest person ever, but his discoveries had all been made by others before, who did not believe that they were as important as main stream media has made them out to be, and this is a debatable reality. My money goes to Tesla as the greatest scientist ever. Why is it that decades after the Europeans had been successfully launching large payloads into space, the Japanese and the Chinese could still not solve the math problems to make this happen.

You will also notice that it is European Jews who have been named among the most intelligent, so considering the history of how technology has developed, the European component might be the most important.

Personally, I think current measured intelligence is much more a result of cultural influence than actual IQ, and that current IQ tests are not very accurate in their assessments.