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Why do Asian students generally get higher marks than Latinos?

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posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 07:02 PM
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Originally posted by poet1bPersonally, I think current measured intelligence is much more a result of cultural influence than actual IQ, and that current IQ tests are not very accurate in their assessments.


Yeah, that must be why the areas of the world with the highest IQ test scores have developed the most advanced modern civilizations (Japan, Western Europe, etc..) and the areas of the world with the LOWEST IQ test scores (Sub-Saharan Africa) have mastered the art of building mud huts.


[edit on 20-7-2008 by Sonya610]




posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 08:58 PM
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reply to post by Sonya610
 


If the IQ tests are accurate than the Chinese and the Japanese should have lead the world in technology all this time, instead of the Europeans.

Actually, it has more to do with culture, and climate. The tropics have environments that are easy to survive, thus, civilizations reach a certain stage of development, and then balance out with nature, while as Homo Sapiens who settled the extremely harsh climates of central Asia develop technologies to allow for their survival, this lead to their ability to conquer other territories, and upped the competition among Homo Sapiens for dominance.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 09:05 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b
The tropics have environments that are easy to survive, thus, civilizations reach a certain stage of development, and then balance out with nature, while as Homo Sapiens who settled the extremely harsh climates of central Asia develop technologies to allow for their survival, this lead to their ability to conquer other territories, and upped the competition among Homo Sapiens for dominance.


Yea, harsher climates, 50,000+ years of separation. Harsher natural selection. Many obvious physical changes as a result.

Are saying iq has nothing to do with it? Or are you saying the iq difference arose due to the difficulties in the different environments? I don't know what you are trying to say actually.



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 04:05 AM
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Originally posted by Sonya610
You rather rude tone is not pleasing.


Which isn't surprising given the fact that i am not posting to please you.


You are just the sort of poster that demands sources and then fails to respond when sources are provided.


In fact i am the type of poster who keeps providing sources that most avoid and few respond to in any relevant fashion.


Just because you apparently have NEVER researched IQ difference among different ethnic groups that does NOT mean there is no difference.


I have looked at it and in my reading those who managed to find such were also trying too hard and thus finding what they wanted to; you can't convince a racist that he isn't superior to whichever group he despises.


Do a search on google for “Ashkenazi Jew I.Q.” and you will see a bunch of articles. Or is that too difficult?


Wont be too difficult but i would much rather like to take a look at the sort of articles and 'evidence' you found believable. I have found that the sources a person uses is normally the easiest way to investigate how he thinks, or even more usefully what he thinks about, so having a peak will allow a better response from me.

As always i am broad minded enough to be open to the possibility that a universal type of IQ test ( no language benefits, mathematics or whatever can be said to be derived from certain educational prerogatives) might expose IQ differentials between certain peoples in various parts of the world. The fact that i have not seen worthy evidence to suggest that does not mean that i don't consider it possible or that i will allow racist/bigots/capitalist to exploit those with different/lesser mental means. The problem with those who find these differentials is that they always seem to wish to employ it as excuse for what they have already stolen or what they wish to take instead of as evidence for a greater need to protect and develop such peoples and places along their own lines.

Stellar



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 06:18 AM
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reply to post by StellarX
 



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 08:13 AM
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Originally posted by poet1b
If Asians and Jews are superior technologically, then why are Whites and Latinos better at developing technology.


Well since the aren't the point is moot...


Yeah, Einstein has been given credit for being the smartest person ever, but his discoveries had all been made by others before, who did not believe that they were as important as main stream media has made them out to be, and this is a debatable reality.


Since we don't often seem to get to agree i am more than happy to do so here.



My money goes to Tesla as the greatest scientist ever. Why is it that decades after the Europeans had been successfully launching large payloads into space, the Japanese and the Chinese could still not solve the math problems to make this happen.


Wont argue about Tesla ( certainly brilliant and considering the times he had great competition) and as for Japanese and Chinese Tesla's i am confident they are mostly busy designing floating air ports, massive underground rail networks ( Japan) that gets you there on time and other related civil infrastructure investments. If the US had spent JUST NASA's budget, to say nothing of what could be done with the pentagon budget, on rail or inter state and city transport Americans would have gained immensely more so than they did from having trained monkeys blasted into orbit.


You will also notice that it is European Jews who have been named among the most intelligent, so considering the history of how technology has developed, the European component might be the most important.


Named by who? Since anyone can convert to Judaism doesn't this just suggest that otherwise intelligent people find a great deal of benefit by this religion? If Semitic Jews turns out to have 'high IQ's ( as compared to who one might ask?) then maybe i will suddenly become interested but since Semitic Jews constitute less than 10% of the modern population it might still not be very telling.


Personally, I think current measured intelligence is much more a result of cultural influence than actual IQ, and that current IQ tests are not very accurate in their assessments.


Also IQ tests came into being to basically assess the capability of a student to perform in a formal schooling environment so it is quite obviously biased as much as the curriculum is. Since schools are mostly in the business of teaching you how to do menial things for a significant proportion of the day while taking orders from people you are not allowed to disobey ( or face punishment) it might serve to educate us as to why IQ tests may just be states way of identifying which citizens will 'fit in' best and who can be trained for positions of power or watched intently for signs of resistance.

Stellar



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 10:46 AM
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Originally posted by StellarX
...Also IQ tests came into being to basically assess the capability of a student to perform in a formal schooling environment...
Stellar


Yes. Also, the capability to perform doesn't mean that one chooses to do well academically in school; likewise, one might not be as "capable" as someone else with a higher IQ, but through smarter studying or more studying achieve academically as well.
A student achieves a higher level, whether through intrinsic motivation (either a higher IQ or drive or both) or external motivation (parents, society, etc), or a combination.

What does the society of the student say about education? To what level does the society value academics? (for ex, US schools place a high value on school sports) Some countries may place a lower value on indigenous populations, providing less schooling or lower academic beliefs/motivation.

What does the student's society/culture say about being "successful"? For that particular student, is success about attaining the highest level of academic achievement or is success in terms of not having to buy clothes/items at a swap meet or having a job "with air conditioning".



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 06:19 PM
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Mexicans are Catholics and Catholics don't value making a lot of money (as a former Catholic). Asians are taught to go for the high jobs.



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 06:37 PM
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Then again, success may be having a job that continues to hone your skills at surviving in an ever more complex society outside of the system, so that you have a far greater degree of possibilities to choose from life as opposed to becoming a cubical vegetable who only capabilities are to play office politics.

Do you want to be the person who puts together technically complex systems, is capable of repairing his own auto's complex fuel system or fixing a simple plumbing problem, or the guy who is very gifted at office politics but doesn't know how to check the oil in his own car or change a tire?



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 06:43 PM
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reply to post by Sonya610
 


What I am trying to say is that culture can make a people more successful, that culture is broader than intelligence. Biologically speaking, Humans are not that biologically diverse. The capabilities of any one person are more related to the culture they are raised in rather than their genetic make up. Success is as much about ambition as it is about ability. The brain is like the body, use it or lose it. Study regularly, you become smarter, just like if you exercise regularly you become stronger.



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 07:25 PM
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My wife is Chinese. I am Irish Italian. I think I can answer that question for you. Chinese people Push their children! They push hard, they push constantly, they bring the kids for tutoring and classes on weekends. They are amazingly focused and border on meglomanical in their devotion to focus and education. They come from a seriously competative environment. Think about it, you compete with a hundred people where they compete with 10,000 in proportion for the sweet job!



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 07:25 PM
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My wife is Chinese. I am Irish Italian. I think I can answer that question for you. Chinese people Push their children! They push hard, they push constantly, they bring the kids for tutoring and classes on weekends. They are amazingly focused and border on meglomanical in their devotion to focus and education. They come from a seriously competative environment. Think about it, you compete with a hundred people where they compete with 10,000 in proportion for the sweet job!



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 04:11 AM
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I would like to thank the people that took the time to look at this issue BOTH globaly in refrence to history, and on thier maturity level to not start Race baiting... unfortunatly, not everyone set a good example, but the first ammendment does require you to be corguial.

When we are making GENERALIZATIONS about a population, you must remember that the inividuals don't matter.

For instance, when i say the Average African has a lower overall AVERAGE inteligence then the AVERAGE Western European, thats nothing to take offense over. Its nothing to get angry about. I mean, you can not like facts, but that doesnt Change the Facts them self.

The fact is, when looking at the 'global' races, its best to throw out the last 500 or so years of History.

Each portion of the planet has SPECIFIC traits that are unique. It is these diffrences in our enviorment, that over the course of 1000's of years, FORCE people to Adapt.

Im going to outline this, simply, starting at the source.

The Continent of Africa. Where modern Man Arose, some 100 thosand years ago. This is a continent of GREAT resorces. Having more large land mamals then ANY other region of earth. The amount of wild game to hunt, and the NATURAL food to gather, made most of Africa living easy, and thus, the civilazations of most of the Continent in a hunter gather society, until the intervention of Western Europeans.

The NATIVE people of the Americas were an stange people. While some civizlations and societies INDEPENTELY devoloped Farming, and MASSIVE Agricultural societies, capable of Sustaining population centers of possible Millions, there were several Key aspects that were not ever 'discovered'. The Lack of a LARGE manmal on the Americas meant the ONLY form of transit was on Foot. While in EuroAsia, Horses had been used for almost 4000 years. This also meant that the Aplication of the Wheel, never formed. With no Large domesticated Animal to Pull a Wheel, there was no use for the wheel besides simple child games. While more suceseful then African Societies, the Native American Societies never gained total Deomesticaion of Large Manmals, and other technoly including written language.

The Middle East brought the First Great steps into Modern Society. The Domestication of Animals, and the Domestication of Wheat and other crops made a population, and cultural boom. Many of the traces of our modern civilization come from the Ancient Babalyon world. Writing, Arithmitic, Farming, and MANY others. AND, for the first time, Regional Powers of civizlations begain to extend thier boarders thrugh military force. Large population centers started to spring up, and great armys were formed, and a warrior culture, and a culture of Power thru Military force was bread, that would shape the politics of this region until present day. With the Domestication of Animals, and the power of cultrue(writing and such), and the farming, the technology of the Middle East would spread to Both the Western Eupopeans, and the Far East.

The People of the Far East are amoung the OLDEST civilizations on the planet. In a culture over a 1000 years old, the Far East has had Disipline and Respect and a disire for knwoledge that is an INTERGAL part of the society. In the Region of China, the 'almost' same civilization has been present for over 2000 years. A common Language, and adancances on Technology on ALL fronts. Sea-Fareing, Farming, Gunpowder&Military, Culture, the Far east was TEAMING with everything over a 1000 years ago. When Western Europe was Floating around in one-maste sailing vessials, the Chiniese had MASSIVE 4-masted ships. But Greed and power, which are the end of ALL powerful socities, got the best, and the Civilization of the Far East peaked, and fell into a stagnation. The People of the Far East Are an inteligent people, built on 100's of Generations, of the culture of Seeking Knowledge, and respect.

In Western Europe, Most Technology was 'copied' from Middle Eastern peoples, Writing, Irrigaion, domestication of animals, and many others. But with these new technologies, the Western Europeans brought thier ferice indepentdence, and the 'modern' techoloigies toghther, and More then 2000 years ago, the foundations for Democracy, Reason, and Logic were founding. Culture begain to flourish. At at its Maximun, the Roman Republic laided the foundaions, and example for the modern world. With its culture, The lands which it influenced, would be changed for history. The Most Modern Western Europeans Have Brought the most amazing advances to modern society. Near 1500, the Western European society begain to spread its influence around the world. Bringing culture, and technology, amoung other things, to the rest of the world.

The Last 500 Years of the world has been Ruled by the Western European Sociteies. Britian, Spain, France, and others, had GLOBAL powers that have SHAPED the modern world we live in.


Now, please, remember that the Last 500 years we are throwing out, so we have 5 relitivly isolated groups of people.
Africans
Native Americans
Middle Eastern
Far East
Western European

Each of these groups have had THOUSANDS of years of diffrent cultures. The African, who for THOUSANDS of years have been hunters, having been made, OVER TIME, to become better, faster, more athletic, being able to throw a spear faster, have adapted to thier situation. The Native American, spiritualy inclined, with great advances in some sciences, but failing to make several KEY advances. The Middle Easterner, in a harsh enviroment, have found a culture that is dependent on Rule for survial, a true Warrior Culture. The people of the Far east, a society built on Knowledge, and the Passion for learning, and Respect. And the Western European, with a breash boldness, that anything is possible, only we must find the means to do so.


The backgrounds for people are Varried, and diffrent cultures WILL bread diffrent people.



BUT, and this is a BIG BUT, when a person IS IN A DIFFRENT CULTURE, THEY WILL ADAPT TO IT. For instance, African-Americans have had several Generations in a Western European society, they have adapted and abosrded Western Society, and its culture.

The Last 500 Years of the world have been Dominated by Western Europeans, and thier culture, and the rest of the world is taking it in, and learning.

Some Cultures can adapt faster then others.

It is what it is. Only time will tell...


Thank you for reading.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 07:54 AM
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reply to post by TKainZero
 


Excellent post. The only thing I would like to comment on is that I believe the Arabs, Persians, and the Braham Indians were originally Caucasians from Europe that migrated and settled in the Middle East and India. All of those groups are still 85% or more Caucasian.

[edit on 22-7-2008 by Sonya610]



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 02:59 AM
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reply to post by Sonya610
 


Thank you for the comment.


I had never read that the Arabs had migrated down south from the north. Then again, even the most qualified people in this feild are doing little more then guessing.



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 04:06 AM
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From what I watched on one either the Discovery Channel or The History channel, and what I have researched on the web, the development of man goes more like this.

Humans first developed in Africa. The first group out of Africa traveled along the southern coast of the Indian subcontinent, and all the way down to Australia, and are the aboriginies of Australia today. They may have even travelled all the way to the Americas.

The second group settled in the Middle East and the Indian subcontinent. They developed more of an agricultural based society, and eventually expanded up into central Asia where they split off into two groups, one going East and one going West, where Asians and Europeans both originated in the same area around the same time. Some whites wound up in Eastern India, and some even made it to the Americas which were settled by several migrations.

The oldest know city is in Anatolia located in what is now Turkey, dating back to 7500BC, which had already developed cooper metalurgy.

www.country-studies.com...



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 02:29 PM
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Einstein is a jew btw. Research before you mention anything. When the technologies were developed in the U.S or western countries. China is ALWAYS in civil war which rather slowed their advancement. and THE BEST BRANDS of technology is all developed in JAPAN.



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 02:43 PM
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I don't claim to know the answer, but I can give an account of my experience growing up asian and being educated by my dad. What he would do was throw me his college algebra books and make me learn by giving me examples, which then he forced me into learning with punishment as repurcussion. After I learned the formula, he would make me back engineer it and all sorts of stuff. As a response, i did well in advanced mathmatics and learned the basics in school. After awhile this had a negative affect, I was scared to death of failing and dishonoring my father, and he would guilt trip me forever, but with reason.

Also I believe that the majority of asians have a very high metabolism, I think it allows the food to be burned faster and nutrients to be carried through the blood at a faster rate.

Another thing is that alot of asian parents teach DISTRUST. I only claim this because i grew up in china town san francisco and almost all my friends in the area were very suspiciouse of each other. As my dad always said, "Throw aside women and friends, for they will not be there for you if you are a failure in life".



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 03:40 PM
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Ok, let's consider for a moment your theory of genetic basis for IQ is correct. Where does this put all the mixed race students?

[edit on 21-1-2009 by antonia]



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by Alxandro
Most of it has to do with the culture.

As immigrants Latinos generally tend to put more emphasis on working and less on education.
Asians tend to emphasize the importance of a good education early on. Since the brain is like a muscle, the more you use it the more you develop it.

What's so difficult about this?

Another thing about these two cultures is you'll never see Asians or Latinos begging for money at some street corner somewhere, like you see American Blacks and Whites doing all the time.


Nailed it. Higher education is in the Asian culture. Hard manual labor is in the Latino culture. When's the last time a group of Asians came knocking on your door asking to mow your lawn?

This is not a hard problem to figure out.

[edit on 21-1-2009 by sos37]




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