2012 Debunked

Originally posted by Conspiriology

Originally posted by InSpiteOf

Just because I do not believe in Organized Religion does not mean I do not believe in God, a God Force, a Source, or whatever other names could be used.

I never said you didn't

You are correct, you did not say I did not believe in God, at least not in those words. Whats you did say is easily interpreted that way though:

I gave up trying to prove things to people who actively engage in disbelieving in God24/7 a long time ago.

Hey smart guy it is YOUR narrow mind that can't be open to the 2012 idea NOT mine.

Please show me direct quotes from this thread where I stated with certainty that my mind is not open "to the 2012 idea"

I do not think you will find such quotes because I never said anything of the sort. Take a step back, and re-read what I have said.

Yeah yeah yeah you're a God unto yourself pffft.

How open minded of you. It is interesting how quickly you brush off alternative perspectives.

For the record, I do not believe I am a "God"

You also told me you reject my stable datum and is why I said what I did

What I said was I did not believe in Revelations. That does not mean I was not interested to see the correlation between my list, and a book written centuries ago.

So how about you stop jumping around the issue and provide some direct evidence to back up your claim?

Yeah, so your time is more valuable than mine, I get that and THAT is why I say look it up your damn self.

Please provide direct quotes from this thread where I stated with certainty that "My time is more valuable than yours"

As it stands, my time is simply preoccupied with serious family concerns and as I stated, I have not the time to pour over hours of research to confirm or deny your point of view.

If you cannot show a direct link between Revelations and the list I posted, just say so.

The reason I am not going to lift a finger for YOU is because you can do it yourself. If you think I am in some way going to seek your damn approval just because you think my need to be right is in jeopardy, you're dead wrong.

You've been at ATS for a while, almost as long as I have, and you should know by now, those making the claim need to back it up. All I asked for was evidence to support your position and you have pretty much flat out refused to provide it.

I couldn't care less what you think of 2012

Or me

- Con

Thats fine, we are not discussing you or my stance on 2012, we are discussing a supposed correlation between revelations and the rise in militarism, theocratic rule, authoritarianism/despotism, and famine.

Some of which im sure tie into end times prophecy, but i want specifics, especially about the increase in the bolded.

[edit on 19-7-2008 by InSpiteOf]

reply to post by InSpiteOf

Some of which im sure tie into end times prophecy, but i want specifics, especially about the increase in the bolded.

*CliKeTY CLicK*

- Con

[edit on 19-7-2008 by Conspiriology]

reply to post by Conspiriology


I asked you to provide source material. You are either unwilling or unable too. Your initial assertions are therefore moot until proven otherwise.

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
reply to post by Conspiriology

 

I asked you to provide source material. You are either unwilling or unable too. Your initial assertions are therefore moot until proven otherwise.

awe I'm all broken up about that too

I told you THREE TIMES I won't lift a finger for you this is the last time I'm telling you. I couldn't care less what you think is moot Ill answer who I choose to and YOU ain't one of em. What you are asking me to do is like asking someone to prove the invention of the wheel it is that simple and that easy to LOOK UP YOUR DAMN SELF!

Now Get off my neck troll'

- Con

The Mayan Calender, consists of 3 different types of calenders. Each consisting of 3 different types of cycles basically, which works like a gear in a sense. The smallest cycle called the Trecena, which consists of 13 days, which is where we get our Signs from, Pisces, Virgo and so on. Which that cycle sits in the Calender Round, which that's composed of a 52 year cylce. The Trecena sits in the Calender Round like a gear, one moving one way as it turns the other, the other way, kind of deal. The 3rd calender cycle, the Long Count, which is one loooooong cycle, sits to the right of the Calender Round, moving along with the other cycles like one big humungous gear. That cycle is when our son basically rotates along with our galaxy, one cycle around with the galaxy like a wheel going around. It takes 26,000 yrs for our sun, to do one cycle in the galaxy basically. The Mayans figured that out. The Mayans were numbers freak basically. They were able to tell time, past, present, and future. Within the calendar cycles of each calendar are cycles as well, or eras, whatever you want to call em. Besides about the year 2012, they never said it was gonna be the end of the world, and it is not the end of the Mayan Era, or whatever. It's the end of the long count cycle. For some reason, they couldn't figure out what's going to happen after it. All they knew, somthing is going to happen, a beginning of a new age or whatever you want to call it. Basically, on Dec. 21, 2012, our son, will be aligned with the Milky Way galaxy. Also, our planet will be sitting at such an angle, which the Mayans also calculated within the cycles of the calenders, having our planet lined up within the alignment of the sun and the galaxy as well. The last era, which started back in 1993, which the Gulf War has begun with our Former President George W. Bush., and ending on Dec. 21, 2012. The Mayan calender has been precise about everything with our timeline. They calculated each rise and fall of civilizations, including their own. They say, when someone knows their future, it's pretty much over for them. If you know your future, why exist at all. The Mayans actually brought the destruction of their own downfall. They basically left their civilazation, and when the Conquestador's came, there were no one left to defend their civilization, so they were destroyed there, also taken down the Aztecs down along with the Mayans. Maybe they did predict something, and didn't want the world to know, mostly because we would destroy ourselves before it's own natural occurences. But all I know, something is going to happen soon, everyone knows something is going to happen soon. The one's who denies this change, are basically ones who are scared of change, and don't want it. Throughout the entire world ppl wants change, but scared to do anything at the moment. History tells us all the time, if ppl don't change their ways, it will be forced upon them to change. It will be a foreverlasting change coming soon. It will not be the end of the world, but the end of this era, unto a new. There will be another World War goin on in the midst of all this. Everyone is gonna be involved in this war. It's gonna last for several years. I don't know how the Mayan calendar and what not, goes along with the bible, mostly because of new information and findings about the bible, it is going to be different than what people think. But, will have the same outcome at least. In Gen., book of the bible. Satan is never once said in the book of Gen. The snake that talks Eve into eating the fruit, didn't even have a name. Now if God told us this, he would tell us that Satan told her to do that. So they think that the snake might of been an ancient God of some sort. I believe there are more than one God, if I'm wrong because of that, I'd think I'd know about it, but what types of diff. Gods there are, never know till that day comes. Can't wait tho

2012 is a load of crap, the Mayan calander DOES NOT END (The Long Count calendar rolls from Baktun 12 to Baktun 13 on that date, but that’s not an end. It can go up to Baktun 19, and even then (in the year 4770+), it doesn’t end, it goes to Pictun 1 (! Pictun=20 Baktuns. 1 Baktun=~400 years).)
The rest of the 'research' is all based on WANTING to find something about 2012, and if you want to find something you will.
Just like with Nostradamus and his so called prediction of 9/11,
this is what was shown:
“In the year of the new century and nine months,
From the sky will come a great King of Terror…
The sky will burn at forty-five degrees.
Fire approaches the great new city…” ”

This is what his writings really said:
"The year 1999, seventh month,
From the sky will come a great King of Terror:
To bring back to life the great King of the Mongols,
Before and after Mars to reign by good luck."

Just relax ffs, this is the y2k panic all over again.

reply to post by andre18

I SMELL DENIAL!

No, of course nothing will happen in 2012; we'll just go about our disgusting ways for all eternity. Geez, you mean to tell me you don't WANT humans to be at agreater level of conciousness? You mean to tell me you don't WANT things to change soon? Unless I've got you wrong, you're one of the reasons humanity is the way it is.


Freaky

I SMELL DENIAL!

So do I, the denial that the world your living is so sh!t, that you need to believe in something so unbelievably so inconceivably that it will give you hope that there’s something more to life then this…..The reality is this is all there is – believing in something like aliens or ascension isn’t going to simply make it real.

No, of course nothing will happen in 2012; we'll just go about our disgusting ways for all eternity.

yah

Geez, you mean to tell me you don't WANT humans to be at a greater level of conciousness?

It’s not so much whether or not I want a greater level of consciousness as it is that it's simply not going to happen

You mean to tell me you don't WANT things to change soon?

I'd love things to change for the better and I’d love to believe that these things are going to happen if there was some actual proof that there’s going to be a change.....but sadly there’s not

Unless I've got you wrong, you're one of the reasons humanity is the way it is.?

I would say you yourself might just be one of the reasons humanity is the way it is. If it wasn’t for people like you who just believe in anything that sounds cool but lacks evidence to back it up, the world would be a better place because we’d all believe in things that made actual sense instead of just hoping things will happen just because they sound fun. Like heaven, ascension, god
god will protect me, yay!

You’re living in a dream world!

[edit on 30-7-2008 by andre18]

reply to post by andre18


No one is forcing you to believe it andre, you can believe what you want and nobody will stop you. That`s what they call free will, and everyone was given this. In this period of time those who understand will move on, those who don`t will stay put and have to learn it all over again.

Wel, you may or may not be right in regard to the whole 2012 hype and everybody dying/trancending/whatever but still, there are enough pointers about 2012 that it will be a interesting time.

news.nationalgeographic.com... Switching of the poles calculated in 2012

science.nasa.gov... Potentially massive solar storm on it's peak in 2012

The combination of those two are not that nice to say the least. The poles give our planet the protection from the harmfull parts of solar radiation and a solar storm gives out massive amounts of the foresaid radiation.

Another thing that is occuring at this time is the warming of the whole solarsystem

www.livescience.com...
www.timesonline.co.uk...
web.mit.edu...

The last few months MSM is starting to report the whole UFO thing with somewhat more sincerity, slowly but surely they are putting the reports on the sites, the Vatican released a press-release saying it is ok to believe in Alien Life (preperation?)

There are other in itself not so shocking events when seen seperatly going on at this time but if you put them together it paint's an interesting picture.

So, not even touching the Mayan calender with a long stick in this post there is something to say about 2012 and it's potential significanse in our earths history.

Believe what you will but try and keep a level head explaining your point of view and keep your views as broad as possible because basing your opinion on one source gives you tunnelvision, even if that source is a professional tourguide. I mean, professional scientists are wrong all the time, no problem that is the way science works. So why should it be any different for history?

Don't know what kind of idiot you had for a tour guide, but I have spoken to archeologists and spent time down there on digs. They do NOT know how the Maya were able to construct such large 3 dimensional calendars (pyramids) using non metallic tools. The closest thing that rivals their accuracy is a modern day laser transit. They excelled at their construction, and the archeologists indicated that they do not know how they engineered such feats with all of the stones being within .001 inch tolerances. They don't even know how some of the major stones were moved.

They also mentioned that they do not know how the Maya were able to go back approximately 22000 years into the past and project forward 4000 years to arrive at the precession which occurs every 26000 years - down to the day and hour. There is some indication that Chalam Balam foreseen the future and knew they were about to go the way of extinction.

Also explain how the Maya knew that increased solar activity with eclipses, both lunar and solar would take place towards the end of the precession period. The indication is that the lunar and solar eclipsis mentioned are the ones between 1995 and 2012. Explain the last page of Nostradomus quatrain that shows the same symbol for the earth and galatic crossing and the symbols for the number of lunar and solar eclipses? Interesting to say the least...

What does Mayan architectural skill have to do with 2012? Yes, there are entire cities built around equations, and precise measurements, it was quite extroidinary. Other cultures however, managed equally amazing feats, and yet those were discovered and explained, there was nothing out of the ordinary out them, other than some brilliant minds designing the stuff.

The cycle simply ends in 2012. The next cycle would begin. Were they still around, they'd have built some nice monuments, and had a celebration. That's it. There is absolutely nothing in Mayan culture that points to some event in 2012. A recent psychic is the only reason this is even up for debate. Before his "revelations," no one was flipping out about Mayan calendars, or the year 2012.

reply to post by DocEmrick


Actually you will be wishing me a happy 33rd birthday!

reply to post by andre18


You don't think anything will happen?! Dude! Don't you know anything?! We're gonna find out the Detroit Lions are gonna go to the super bowl on that day! Don't jinx me!

(Agreed btw)



[edit on 31.7.2008 by Shugo]

To be honest it makes me sick that people do this kind of stuff. How can they sleep at night? They try and convince people of this and it makes them think that life is nothing but a sham. I dont blame people that fear. Not everyone can help it i mean we just do NOT wanna die. This only enhances the fear however.

reply to post by Conspiriology


So basically what you're saying, if I'm understanding this right, is you are so sure the world is going to end on 2012 because an ancient civilization predicted it(which I might add was advanced FOR ITS TIME[they also payed homage to the sun for it rising every day]) and a show on PBS (which you have no idea of what was left on the cutting room floor). I will submit to the fact that the following fact was read by myself on 2 other CITED threads, but a scholar in the field being discussed, not some toolbox in his mom's basement making sense of the end of the world because he has nothing else to look forward to stated that 2012 marks the end of a cycle, which is in fact a time of celebration (for the Mayans) marking the end of an era, much like our civilization did in 2000. All of this jargon concerning the end of the world is a scare tactic put out to the public because they know idiots (like myself) will watch if for nothing else than to see the claims made. Also, seriously NOONE can predict the end of the world, and to do so is both ignorant and arrogant. If the end is near, do you really want to know? Do you really want to be "that guy" that while everyone is doing whatever they decide to do with their final moments is saying "told you so"? If it's going to happen, it's going to happen and there is nothing you can do to stop it. So why ponder over something "negative" that might happen, for all you know the interpretations of the calender were incorrect and then end of days could be one week from now. It's so far into the past, it's ridiculous for us to ponder this, and right now I'm questioning why I'm giving this matter so much attention. Listen, live your life, enjoy your life, and don't sweat the small stuff. The main reason we're even discussing this is because we are in the age of immiediate global communication when any yahoo with a thought can project it forth into the world for other yahoos to sympathize with. I promise you that if they had the communication technology that we have today during the French Revolution or WWII...the EXACT SAME type of thoughts would have been projected, and probably were. It's just that people at those times didn't have a medium in which to portray their thoughts. In summation, don't live your life trying to predict the future. As previously stated, it's ignorant and arrogant...not to mention extremely depressing to one's psyche...instead, use the energy you do doing research for this subject and putting it out to scare the public towards bettering your community, or for heck's sake, learn an instrument or crack a book! The only reason we're talking about this is so a few stations can get better ratings by tapping into the deepest fears of those of lesser intelligence.

reply to post by Harman


That’s interesting what you pointed out about MSM, I didn’t know that. Regardless of what happens, I do agree with you in the sense it will be an interesting time frame. People seem to have the wrong idea about this time. They try to bring up past events like Y2K, not being able to comprehend the difference between these situations.

Y2K is a man-made disaster, known as human made. Y2K actually did happen, but most people didn’t realize this. It was brought about the science and computer industry that bad scenarios were possible if they didn’t re-calculate computers, programs, exc. News got wind of the story and blew it up into a big story. (Which is their job, that is what they are paid to do sell stories. What they stated was the truth, though they went above and beyond on some cases. In the end, they accomplished their goal and told the truth. How people perceived this was on them.) People began planning for the worst, but anyone who worked in the field already knew about this scenario and fixed it. (Hence a man-made disaster) Looking back in some retrospect, it’s actually a good thing it go such publicity, because it probably prevented a lot of disasters from happening. In all truths, some companies did have to re-set some of their programs, or software that they forgot, so in truth this really did happen. Just not on the scale that was intended to your average, gullible, citizen that was listening to the news, whom was spouting nothing but worst case scenarios. (To sell the story)

Furthermore, the difference between these two is nothing was prophesied regarding Y2K. There are multiple bibliographic sources that are spouting prophecies regarding this time era. Also, science is starting to find things that are matching the time frame of these scenarios. I guarantee you the same thing will happen in regards of Y2K. Things like power companies will get wind of this and try to re-support their power grids to help prevent some situations from happening. They will also have a back up disaster plan, which is resulting in the media exposure of this. This will be oblivious to your average day person, not realizing the outcome being changed thanks to media exposure. Lastly, this isn’t a man-made disaster. When I say that, let me emphasize the word man-made. This is a natural event that is possible of happening on multiple scales, depending upon what you’re believing.
In truth, we have nothing that can prevent the outcome of the chain of events. That is if it happens in the first place and if it does how much can we minimize? In order for someone to understand a concept, plan, or theory, one must look at the entire picture including past, present, and future in order to calculate the entire projected situation. Like stated by multiple people on this website, this time period will be interesting regardless of what happens. Keep in mind, this is the year 2009 all the evidence hasn’t sprouted yet, or been developed yet. Once the year 2011 comes around, then you can start basing Fact from Fiction, based upon the present state of the Earth, preparation, and past scenarios. If there is a possibility of the worst happening, than hope for the best but plan for the worst.

reply to post by andre18


OP you are correct. It is only a calendar based on stars. You are absolutely correct in saying that nothing will happen. It will come and go.

Now, why all the commotion? It is just like the global warming hoax, the global cooling hoax, the next hoax and the next. 2012 is being used as a talking point to get people drawn in hearing something interesting, and then the 2012 talk really starts as a way of talking to people about far left ideologies, anti-capitalism, communism, anti-nationalism all pushed most fervently by the most fluidly nationalistic group of all parasitic groups.

I am watching one of these Ian Lungold videos right now. He is anti-America, anti-capitalist, etc. He is the worst! The guy may as well advertise himself as a scumbag Bolshevist ready to slaughter Americans and call it a good time.

Run from these 2012 hucksters. They are our enemies.

@OP

Your problem ?

You cannot debunk belief. This is the problem you will encounter all the time.

Most people, including myself and in all probability the majority of ATS members, live normal relatively uneventful lives. Conspiracies, aliens, doomsday prophecies add to sparkle and color to their (and mine, I'm here for the chuckles) otherwise unremarkable passage from birth to death.
Hence belief, of whatever flavor, is born.

Debunk away, but accept you will never succeed, for against belief logic and proof are but straws in the wind.

Originally posted by andre18
reply to post by 12.21.12

 

What I’ve debunked is just the conspiracy theories surrounding it, it’s more to do with stoping the whole end of the world thing from going around….I mean you’ve got to stop and think for a second - why have the people at the Camelot Project gone to all these strangle people to get info about 2012 instead of simply going to Mexico and finding out what it really means?????

No. What you've done is simply posed an obvious, unoriginal theory as to why the Mayan calendar ends on said date. Period.