Ask a Mason

originally posted by: JoshNorton
The York and Scottish Rite bodies attempt, through their own degrees, to explore further some of the legend, allegory, and esoteric aspects of Masonry. They approach it in different ways: The York Rite degrees are conferred on individuals, one degree at a time with pomp and ceremony. The Scottish Rite degrees are generally given to an entire class at one time, performed on a stage with the candidates as an audience rather than directly participating in the allegory being presented. In a Scottish Rite "reunion" (the gathering at which such degrees are given) usually only a handful of the 4th-32nd degree are actually enacted. There are some key degrees which MUST be performed every reunion, but the others get cycled through, sometimes almost randomly or depending on who has a team that can perform which degree and is available at the time of that reunion.

I don't know much about the Shriners, as it's not a body I'm interested in joining, at least at this time. It is my understanding that they aren't as big on esoterica or degrees, which is fine too.

I've heard it said that men come to Masonry for many different reasons. There are philanthropic men who are really only interested in the charities that various Masonic bodies support; there are men who seek the camaraderie of fraternity; there are ritualists who believe that the traditions must be upheld by performing every action precisely; and there are esotericists who want to delve into the meaning behind the ritual and explore the mysteries of the human condition. And none of them are wrong, just looking at Masonry through different lenses. It is my suspicion that there are appendant bodies to the Blue Lodge for each of those types: York Rite is very much about ritual and precision. They're the ones who as Knights Templar march drill patterns in formation with swords, etc. Scottish Rite is very much about the esoteric and philosophical aspects. Read Morals & Dogma for Albert Pike's opinions on the condition of man, and his place in the world. It's possible that the Shrine may be focused on charity (with their hospitals) or fraternity (with their reputation for drinking) but I don't know which is a bigger aspect to them, having not attended their meetings.

2. I've noticed that Masons get verbally attacked and so many conspiracies surround them. Even in this thread you guys are accused of worshipping Lucifer. Why don't Masons, on an official capacity, outright challenge these accusations and assertions? I understand that they can't address every single allegation, but going after some of the more serious ones would show that they are concerned about their image, because right now I wonder why they just sit there and take it.

There are a number of issues here. There's the whole "When did you stop beating your children" type question. There are those who believe that because Masonry has a reputation as a "secret" society that either everything we tell you will be a lie, or everything we tell you will be wrong because we're not "high enough" to know the truth. It's infinitely frustrating to try to respond to those types of attack, and yet, as cbass has shown above, that's exactly the tact that most anti-masons use.

[edit on 7/13/2008 by JoshNorton]

An organization with several million members will occasionally have issues with pilfering some funds or harming somebody in a sexual manner. It should never be taken as an indictment of the organization as a whole.

Freemasonry does not exist to pillage people of their money or to exploit young people [or anybody] in any manner, let alone in a sexual manner.

Freemasonry is not some insane sex orgy. It is an organization of men committed to bettering their local community who can come together as fraternal brethren without being held down and held back by the dogmatic creed of the clerical class.

It is a very novel idea, the idea that men can treat each other well and do well without the supervision and control of priests.

a reply to: LoneWanderer1307
As a Scottish Rite mason 33rd degree legacy "Jobs Daughter" Campbell/McNaughton clan I agree with your sentiment and am actually near vomiting. The misinformation is alarming. I would put Freemasonry up against any/ALL Dogma as far as Moral teachings go. The Templar Knights were never corrupted.

originally posted by: vethumanbeing
a reply to: LoneWanderer1307
As a Scottish Rite mason 33rd degree legacy "Jobs Daughter" Campbell/McNaughton clan I agree with your sentiment and am actually near vomiting. The misinformation is alarming. I would put Freemasonry up against any/ALL Dogma as far as Moral teachings go. The Templar Knights were never corrupted.

Man will never be able to explore true spirituality and come to an understanding of God so long as we have millions of Jews convinced their "God" "gave them" land and they get to possess it to the exclusion of all others, so long as we have millions of Muslims who believe their "God" has commanded them to wage Jihad by the sword and has given them his blessing to take land, women, and pillage, so long as millions of Christians believe, teach, and preach, that their "God" is going to send billions of people to hell for "believing wrong" and that accordingly such beliefs are invalid, improper, and need to be driven from the world.

I once explained to a friend, "when you teach that people in group A, B, and C, are all going to hell and deserve to go to hell for being contrary to God or for angering God, it is not much of a leap to justify physically killing them right now... If you genuinely believe somebody deserves to burn in hell for all eternity, you would necessarily believe they deserve to be outright killed today in this life."

I believe the most pernicious thing a child can be taught is that they are part of Group 1 and anybody not part of that exclusive group is going to burn in hell for eternity and deserves to burn in hell for eternity, it teaches a child to devalue anybody outside of that group and deny them their humanity and their spiritual and moral worth as an individual and a fellow human.

originally posted by: LoneWanderer1307
originally posted by: JoshNorton

JoshNorton: 2. I've noticed that Masons get verbally attacked and so many conspiracies surround them. Even in this thread you guys are accused of worshipping Lucifer. Why don't Masons, on an official capacity, outright challenge these accusations and assertions? I understand that they can't address every single allegation, but going after some of the more serious ones would show that they are concerned about their image, because right now I wonder why they just sit there and take it.

Take what? Who is the accuser exactly; that actually requires ANY response. To do that requires an 'acknowledgement' of wrong doing in the first place.

JoshNorton: There are a number of issues here. There's the whole "When did you stop beating your children" type question. There are those who believe that because Masonry has a reputation as a "secret" society that either everything we tell you will be a lie, or everything we tell you will be wrong because we're not "high enough" to know the truth. It's infinitely frustrating to try to respond to those types of attack, and yet, as cbass has shown above, that's exactly the tact that most anti-masons use.

Its not 'secret' its esoteric and anyone can access the same information as it is free and available; you just need to where to look. The Essenes understood this knowledge as did the Egyptians, the Templars and Freemasons.

LoneWanderer: An organization with several million members will occasionally have issues with pilfering some funds or harming somebody in a sexual manner. It should never be taken as an indictment of the organization as a whole.
Freemasonry does not exist to pillage people of their money or to exploit young people [or anybody] in any manner, let alone in a sexual manner. Freemasonry is not some insane sex orgy. It is an organization of men committed to bettering their local community who can come together as fraternal brethren without being held down and held back by the dogmatic creed of the clerical class.
It is a very novel idea, the idea that men can treat each other well and do well without the supervision and control of priests.

I do just fine without the dogmatic overlays regarding the dictatorial idea that concerns or is regarding the destination of ones own soul, the Priests, Nuns, Bishops, Pastors, Vickers, Chaplins are tolerated is all (a necessary evil)?

Time travel is evident based on masonic lore
For masons which movies seem to be most key for understanding future events?

originally posted by: Illumina233
Time travel is evident based on masonic lore

Could you please tell us more about this Masonic lore?, were can we find out about this time travel, can Masons time travel?

originally posted by: Illumina233
Time travel is evident based on masonic lore
For masons which movies seem to be most key for understanding future events?

This isn't a movie; it is a book by John Fowles called "A MAGGOT".

Does the 33 degrees in Masonry symbolize or correlate to the 33 vertebrae in the spinal column?
Of topic, Heres a great vid
www.youtube.com...
where Scott Onstott of Secrets in Plain Sight is presenting his latest findings; a lot of 32 and 33 degree findings.

a reply to: sophie87

They say the Masons are all powerful and is the illuminati, couldn't you bring world peace? You own the banks

a reply to: DiddiMcCoy
Yes, Makes you think. I actually believe there are two separate Illuminati type groups fighting amongst each other; the roosters(waking us up) and the owls (keeping us asleep). I'm just trying to figure out whose behind which events.

originally posted by: sophie87
a reply to: DiddiMcCoy
Yes, Makes you think. I actually believe there are two separate Illuminati type groups fighting amongst each other; the roosters(waking us up) and the owls (keeping us asleep). I'm just trying to figure out whose behind which events.

www.amazon.com...

Scarlet and the Beast: A history of the war between English and French freemasonry

French Freemasonry is very much radical.

The major differences between French Grand Orient Freemasonry and Anglo-American Grand Lodge Freemasonry.


France- Atheists are allowed.
UK/US Grand Lodge- Atheists are not allowed, you must believe in a Supreme Being.

France- Women are allowed.
UK/US Grand Lodge- Women are not allowed, you must be a man.

France- Brothers can discuss politics and religion in the Lodge.
UK/US Grand Lodge- It is absolutely forbidden for discussions of politics or religion to take place within a Lodge.


France- Lodges can publicly take a political stance on an issue of concern to the Lodge [i.e. pending legislation, an issue of civil or humans rights].
UK/USA Grand Lodge- Lodges are forbidden from taking any sort of public political stance on any issue.


I believe that French Grand Orient Masons can even advocate the overthrow of the French political government as long as they do not advocate the overthrow of the French political system as a Republic. In short, if they believe their Republic is decadent and corrupt, they can openly discuss why it deserves to be overthrown, short of plotting and conspiring to do so... I THINK that, based on my readings of their policies.

In no way can American Grand Lodge Freemasons even suggest that the government should be challenged or dealt with in such a manner.

As I said, French Grand Orient Masonry is very much more radical and culturally revolutionary, basically "avant garde" when compared to Anglo-American Grand Lodge Masonry.

As a Grand Lodge Master Mason in the Anglo-American tradition, being a Regular Mason, a Master Mason in good standing, I would almost certainly be welcomed into a lodge of Grand Orient Masons in France and embraced and welcomed in as a Masonic Brother, assuming I proved myself to be a Master Mason. However, I might very well get into trouble with Grand Lodge people in my state because I would have had "Masonic interactions" with irregular/unrecognized Masons, I don't know if they regard Grand Orient as Clandestine or Bogus, but they do label them as Irregular and Unrecognized [to my knowledge]. Accordingly, Grand Lodges in the USA would not welcome nor accept Grand Orient Masons from France, unless the individual Lodge was simply unaware that Grand Lodge does not recognize Grand Orient as being in regularity. So in short, most American Masons would probably be welcome to visit and sit in Lodge in France, but most French Masons would not be welcome in the USA under most circumstances.



This last bit is from Wiki-

Unlike Anglo-American Freemasonry, the Grand Orient of France does not require candidates for membership to believe in a supreme being, and allows the discussion of political issues and religion in lodge. It upholds a series of guiding principles or ideals (valeurs), which individuals member are expected to defend, and which the Grand Orient as a corporate body promotes.[41]

Democracy - The Grand Orient is committed to the ideals of the Republic.
Laicity - The church should restrict its pronouncements to the purely spiritual, and should under no circumstances be allowed to influence the law.
Social Solidarity - The state must make provisions for the economically disadvantaged.
Citizenship - Liberty, equality and fraternity promoted through respect, tolerance and freedom of conscience.
Environment - Humanity has the responsibility to protect the environment for future generations.
Human Dignity - All humankind should be guaranteed food, shelter and care.
Human Rights - As defined in the 1948 Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
In discussions at all levels, up to and including the President, the Grand Orient claims to exert a beneficent influence on the French Government.[42]

originally posted by: sophie87
Does the 33 degrees in Masonry symbolize or correlate to the 33 vertebrae in the spinal column?
Of topic, Heres a great vid
www.youtube.com...
where Scott Onstott of Secrets in Plain Sight is presenting his latest findings; a lot of 32 and 33 degree findings.

I have heard it corresponds to the 33 degree of latitude North, where Roswell was, and also where a very important event happened in ancient Israel/Palestine/Judea.

www.redicecreations.com...

a reply to: LoneWanderer1307

So freemasonry put the world in the mess it's in. Why would anyone join such a evil group?

a reply to: DiddiMcCoy
Because it's not an "evil group." Don't confuse theory with reality.

a reply to: KSigMason

But I see 7.000.000.000 humans living in poverty over your ideals, does it justify the ideals when majority suffers?

a reply to: DiddiMcCoy
How are Masonic "ideals" causing poverty in 7-billion people? Do you even know what principles, virtues, and tenets Freemason perpetuate?

a reply to: KSigMason

I actually do know them my people did them for thousands of years, but it's funny when a new group does the same and have no clue why.

Muslim traditions in a technocracy is laughable, you know nothing mason.

a reply to: DiddiMcCoy
And who are "your people"? And if you know our principles, virtues, and tenets, then list them and why you think they have oppressed billions.

Who says we have no clue why?

Freemasonry is not a "technocracy." What's laughable is your attempt to make yourself seem knowledgeable on a subject you clearly don't understand.

originally posted by: DiddiMcCoy
a reply to: LoneWanderer1307

So freemasonry put the world in the mess it's in. Why would anyone join such a evil group?

If you appreciate the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution then thank American Freemasonry.


If you believe France would be better off under L'Ancien Régime then curse French Freemasonry.

In short, most of the people who oppose Freemasonry seem to yearn for a autocratic feudal theocracy. Most people in the Roman Catholic Church who denounce Freemasonry openly advocate a return to medieval style governance with the RCC as the center of society.