Are you O.K. with Barack's latest? (FISA)

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posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 07:26 PM
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reply to post by xmotex
 


Even if it was just a political move to help him get elected, thats no excuse. Obama is supposedly about Change, and this behavior illustrates to me that he is not for change, but is instead for winning at any costs.

I'm sure you are right about what would have been said by Hannity, Oreilly, etc. but ask yourself this question. If our politicians are now taking positions because of what people like Sean Hannity say, then are any of them worth voting for?

I stand by my claim, the Democrats and Republicans are just to branches of the same tree, and the only thing that matters to them is winning. Apparently, Sean Hannity has more say as to what a Democratic candidate has in his platform than the voters in the Democratic primary. Obama isn't change, hes more of the same, politics as usual.




posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 07:30 PM
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reply to post by Grambler
 


He can't change a thing unless he can get into the office. That's the first order of business. Get the position.



posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 07:42 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


While I agree with you, the Republicans would have nailed him either way he voted, it still doesn't speak well of his actions. He claims to be a well thought out and principled man, but when given a chance to show that (Campaign finance, FISA, Gun Control, Status of Jerusalem, Abortion) he changes with the wind. Hardly the impression one would get from him from all his high and mighty "Change" from polictics as usual.

I would (and do) have serious doubts as to how he would perform in a crisis.



posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 07:59 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

He can't change a thing unless he can get into the office. That's the first order of business. Get the position.


Yeah, but this is the same mantra used every time a politician does this. I'll assume for a moment that you are right, that Obama is actually someone who doesn't believe in the FISA bill, and once in power will repeal it. Under that mindset though, couldn't the same be said of McCain? And for that matter, how can I believe in any of the other positions he takes. Maybe he is just saying what he thinks is popular in every instance, and will be completely different when he comes into office. If so, doesn't it take a great deal of faith to vote for the man?

He didn't have to do this to get into office. He could have voted against it and spent time discussing how he supports fighting terrorism, but the bill invades civil rights and wouldn't be anymore effective. This wouldn't have politically hurt him that bad, as he is already being painted by the Republicans as someone who is weak on terrorism, and he is still ahead in the pools.

Instead, if your right, he chose to take a position that he didn't believe in because it was the easy thing to do. In other words, he signed a law he knew was wrong because he was too weak to defend it. If thats true, how can we think he will be strong enough to enact change?

How are you so sure that he will be about change and his stance now is just to get elected? Pelosi and the Dems that got elected with her talked about changing Washington, and were overwhelmingly elected in, and then did the exact opposite of change by supporting Bush. As far as I'm concerned, I'm not willing to give any Republican or Democrat the benefit of the doubt. To me, if they flip flop to get votes, they are not about change.

I think that Obama is more of the same. Its just that hes an attractive candidate thats a good speaker, so people are somehow willing to overlook it. I'll say it again, as long as there is a 2 (well in my vision 1) party system in control in this country, nothing will change.



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 12:53 AM
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Completely ridiculous. The republicratic crime family strikes again. Just another great big reminder that there is NO DIFFERENCE between these parties anymore. They have sold out this nation, and no matter which one of these Bilderberger-chosen puppets wins, we all lose. The more things "change", the more they stay the same...

Sigh.



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 05:26 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by Grambler
 


He can't change a thing unless he can get into the office. That's the first order of business. Get the position.



Now BH, I'm going to site this phrase, again and again, over the next three months... (j/k, or am I? )

This reminds me of the argument used for global warming...

"if what we do benefits the environment, then it doesn't matter if it was true or not..."

I know that I've pointed my thread out to you on Obama's take on faith-based programs. Remember how against those the left was when Bush did it?

But I think that all of his supporters, (not assuming you, btw) let him say all of these things, thinking what you just said is going to be the reality.
But this time he actually voted a bill into LAW, and you can't get a little more upset than that?

Please just admit that he is as bad as the rest of them. Something I have been preaching all along...



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 05:36 PM
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Obama has left me cynical and compromised. I feel like I am over a clown barrel with my vote. Who will ride me less. I am SO dissolutioned. I have to hand it to the NWO tho, they really have the i's dotted and the t's crossed.
We are all hind end disestablished.



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 07:00 PM
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left keeps screaming about the freedoms they are losing under Bush and the funniest thing is their Messiah of hope and change just jammed it up their Tu-Tu's.


Lol, isn't that the truth! Wow, talk about kicking his own supporters to the curb time and time again. When will they learn, he only cares about himself?



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 11:08 PM
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This vote by Obama does worry me, he may not be the candidate we thought he could be. This bill scares the be-jesus out of me just thinking about the power our government gains as our rights fade away. It's just one vote but for some reason this vote has made me take a second look at Obama. I definitely won't vote for McCain he is just way too out of touch. It's still months till the election but I just wish a real candidate will rise up and be known. What's it gonna take for there to no longer be a United States of America. Can Obama see the "Change" through if he is elected? I want to believe.



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 11:32 PM
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in my opinion..... obama is just another P.O.S. puppet of the elitists. he will do and say what he is told. he will play games w/ our lives. he will help the bilderburgs/rockefellers bring about the NWO, and rob us all blind of our freedoms that we still have.(wich isnt many)


why is it that for every presidential election we have to choose between a douche bag or a sh** sandwich?????? compliments of south park i might add.



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 11:35 PM
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Originally posted by jetxnet


left keeps screaming about the freedoms they are losing under Bush and the funniest thing is their Messiah of hope and change just jammed it up their Tu-Tu's.


Lol, isn't that the truth! Wow, talk about kicking his own supporters to the curb time and time again. When will they learn, he only cares about himself?


very very true.... hes just another puppet chosen by the elitists. just like bush was and is.

dont vote........ its a waste of time.electronic voter polls are rigged and they just through away the paper ballots.... every U.S. citizen should go without voting this election and see if anyone wins...... lol what would happen



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 12:20 AM
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This is not that hard to figure out.

Obama's campaign is being run by people from McGuireWoods, a large international law firm that also represents Verizon.

Obama's chief foreign policy advisor is Mark Brzezinski, a partner in McGuireWoods.

Obama's FISA vote benefits Verizon.








posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 12:32 AM
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Relax Obama Supporters and get used to it...

Obama's Socialist Agenda will not work with out complete control of the population by the Federal Government... Simple Fact

The change you are going to see from Obama is simple. If elected, he will do everything he can to grant more and more power to the Federal Government. He has to in order for his ideologies to work.

The idea of American Independence is a direct contradiction to the Democratic Ideal and their Socialist Agenda. That is why they HATE Capitalism. That is why they want to TAX us out of existence, completing the take-over of the Federal Government and the complete redistribution of wealth (With them controlling it of course).

Remember that corporations don't pay taxes, they pass it on to US, the consumers, yet you all blindly support this "change"...

So, of course he supports FISA, he will support many more similar things if he gets in office; just remember like two years ago when the economy was strong and we all had jobs and homes; I said it then, I'm telling you now.

Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

For all those that constantly add the "disclaimer"... "I'm not a Democrat", you would be a lot more believable if
1. You stopped protesting so much
and
2. You stopped acting like one

Semper



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 10:21 AM
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2 million angry Democrats reject Obama?

A lot of people are not ok with it,

www.worldnetdaily.com...




PUMA/Just Say No Deal now represents and gives voice to more than 230 grassroots organizations, blogs and millions of self- professed PUMAs intent on one mission: NOBAMA!

We started an initiative just before the 4th of July to raise money for Hillary, and so far we've raised approximately $10 million. Sources tell us that's less than $5 million away from being in the black. By this weekend Hillary's debt will be finished."





In the last two weeks we've seen Obama go back on his campaign promises – FISA, campaign finance, especially the Iraq war," Bower said.





There is a movement afoot," Bower confided. "It hasn't hit the ground yet, but we want to target down-ticket Democrats who have been complicit in the DNC's dealings these past few months. You'll probably be hearing more about that soon. Some of Obama's original supporters are leaving him. Eight super-delegates left Obama this week. People are realizing Obama will be a dead weight to them and that's why these eight delegates have switched back over to Hillary's column. And I'm expecting there'll be more to follow."


this I believe to be true,




The coalition believes the Democrat leadership in Congress is supporting Obama because they want a weakened executive branch and Obama is an inexperienced, manufactured candidate who'll have to rely on House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.


And from what I hear Obama donations are way down from what they expected,

www.youtube.com...

[edit on 103131p://bSaturday2008 by Stormdancer777]



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 11:36 PM
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reply to post by Stormdancer777
 



That Democrats and "Progressives" are managing to self destruct over Obama's move to the center, just brings a warm tear to my eye. It's simply amazing how you guys time and time again manage to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. You are almost as good as the Palestinians at that. First it was "how did Gore lose", then "how did Kerry lose" and now you are already in dissarry over Obama.

Here's a hint for you, it really is all about winning when it comes to Presidential politics. I really shouldn't be giving you guys such keen insights about Presidential elections, but hey, you will probably discount it as some Neocon disinformation plot.



posted on Jul, 13 2008 @ 04:36 AM
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Can someone clarify for me what McCain's position is on FISA?

It seems like he has been flapping in the wind like a flag on this issue, at least to me.

I am not pleased with Obama changing his stance, but I at least know where he stands right now.

DocMoreau



posted on Jul, 13 2008 @ 04:41 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by Grambler
 


He can't change a thing unless he can get into the office. That's the first order of business. Get the position.


Great rationalization there.

Do whatever it takes to get in so he can do whatever he wants when he gets there.

Kerry tried this in 2004 and lost to somebody who many consider a terrible president. Obama is going to try this in 2008 with similar results. This is why he's already lost the magic that carried him in February. It's now July, and everybody including his former supporters see that he's full of crap.



posted on Jul, 13 2008 @ 09:26 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 



He can't change a thing unless he can get into the office. That's the first order of business. Get the position.


Here are excerpts from some speeches directly in-line with your comment.


We never received the equality and fraternity we had been promised, and we lost our liberty to boot. For when our nation lost its political place in the world, it soon lost its unity of spirit and will.

Millions of the industrial proletariat are unemployed and starving; the whole of the middle class and the small artisans have been impoverished.

will regard it as its first and foremost duty to revive in the nation the spirit of unity and co-operation.

In economical administration, the promotion of employment, the preservation of the farmer, as well as in the exploitation of individual initiative, the Government sees the best guarantee for the avoidance of any experiments which would endanger the currency.

No, our wish is that responsible folk should once more be brought together so that every class and every individual should be given that authority over those below and that responsibility towards those above which are essential if one is to build up the life of a community. We do not want so to educate the nation that it lives for ideas and artificial constructions; we want to test all ideas and constructions to discover how far they are capable of serving the nation's life.

Speeches

Emphasis Mine

Directly from the Obama Play book???? Sure sounds like it huh?

Nope

Adolph Hitler... 1932 and 1933

Semper



posted on Jul, 13 2008 @ 02:41 PM
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Originally posted by Pellevoisin

Originally posted by Becker44


Barack Obama is facing an angry backlash from liberal voters after vowing to support a deal on Bush administration wiretaps that is due for final approval this week.


Source: www.guardian.co.uk...

Now along comes the FISA bill reworked to grant immunity to the telecom companies. This is the same bill Obama vowed to filibuster. Of course this was during the primary season when he was really reaching for the far, far left.


What Obama is doing -- very unwisely I might add -- is making it possible for Jesse Ventura to launch a credible run for the White House.

After the FISA vote I expect Ralph Nader to launch a presidential campaign from the left. But the important thing to watch is if Jesse Ventura announces he is running for President. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Jesse Ventura announced such a run for the White House on Monday.

WoW, thats amazing.

As I was reading the posts I couldn't help but notice the 'battle of the lesser of 2 evils' in the upcoming elections and thought about voting for Mr. Ventura.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 12:33 AM
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nope, same old same old. looks like ill be voting nader again. For a few months there I was excited about obama was a new kind of politician. now it appears he is just corrupt as all those before him. nothing can change my mind now.


Also, I dont care if my vote is considered a vote for mccain. McCain and Obama are the same. Silver spoon fed ivory tower elitists. There the same.

Good luck Barack.





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