The Definitive "Birth Certificate" Thread - Updated 8th August 2008

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

But it does. This has been discussed in at least one of the other threads but to sum it up, most printers have lights from 2 directions that wipe out the shadows made by folds and other bumps, such as those made by an embossed seal. See the link in my signature and follow the links there for more information. They have used edge detection software to "find" the seal and it's there. I can even see it on the uncompressed KOS version.

The following image is a portion(left half) of Patricia DeCosta's Hawaiian COLB. Not only the creases or folds shown, but the registrar's signature and the embossed seal can also be seen at the bottom (and both of them are imprinted on the back side). No special image processing software needed to bring out the details.

Because it was scanned using a cheap scanner with only one light source.

See this post for that discussion. Specifically, the Digital Library Federation excerpt.

[edit on 9-7-2008 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Because it was scanned using a cheap scanner with only one light source.

See this post for that discussion.

Specifically, the Digital Library Federation excerpt.

[edit on 9-7-2008 by Benevolent Heretic]

You're partially correct. It's the other way around. The more expensive special scanner is needed to pick up the embossed seal. But the cheaper single light source scanner may pick up certain types of embossed seals, ones with finer and deeply imprinted features.

Notice that Ms. DeCosta did not attempt to hide her Certificate No. 151 1930 010259 . And Obama hide his Certificate No. It should be the other way around. Ms. DeCosta should hide her number because she's just an ordinary private citizen. Mr. Obama should let the world know his number since he's running for the highest public office in the nation.

Exhibit A, DeCosta COLB:


Exhibit B, Obama COLB:


[edit on 7/9/2008 by coolieno99]

[edit on 7/9/2008 by coolieno99]

So, no matter what I knock down, you're going to "move the goalposts"... And here I thought you were looking for the truth there for a minute.

Originally posted by coolieno99
Mr. Obama should let the world know his number since he's running for the highest public office in the nation.

So... you think the world should know his birth certificate number, huh? And what would you do with that number? What would that number prove?

You think we should have his social security number, too?

You're entitled to your opinion as regards what Mr. Obama should or shouldn't do, but that's all it is. Your opinion. But IF I were going to put my birth certificate on the freaking Internet (which I would never do), I would reserve all rights to black out any identifying information I chose.

If that fact alone makes you think the thing is fake, then have at it.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
So... you think the world should know his birth certificate number, huh? And what would you do with that number? What would that number prove?

There might not be a certificate no. It could just be blank.
Here's link to John McCain's COLB. There's no attempt to hide his certificate no. The no. is 170027 .

John McCain's Birth Certificate

[edit on 7/10/2008 by coolieno99]

[edit on 7/10/2008 by coolieno99]

Originally posted by coolieno99
There might not be a certificate no. It could just be blank.

If it's a fake, they could make up a number!

Here's link to John McCain's COLB. There's no attempt to hide his certificate no. The no. is 170027 .

Where's the SEAL!?!?!?! And he wasn't even BORN in the US??? He's not eligible to be POTUS! Call someone. NOW!

reply to post by TKainZero


You apparently seriously misunderstood the purpose of this thread. You should CAREFULLY read the first post.

And where does it say that ATS mods are to be unbiased??? Nowhere. They are people... with opinions... VALID opinions... No matter where they live.

Please remain on topic.

If you have a question or concern that is board related, feel free to use the complaint / suggestion button

Thanks, Have a Nice Day.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

If it's a fake, they could make up a number!

The forger cannot use random numbers to generate a certificate no. Usually those numbers are created with accounting information embedded in it. For example, look at the 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th digits of Ms. DeCosta's Cert. no. It's 1930. Could that be her birth year? Maybe yes, or maybe not. Could the digits 1-3 means the 151st birth of that year? Maybe yes, or not. There will be portion of the no. that are serialized to make it unique, but we don't know which portion. It's much easier for the forger just to block it out then guess and generate a believable cert. no.

Where's the SEAL!?!?!?! And he wasn't even BORN in the US??? He's not eligible to be POTUS! Call someone. NOW!

As explain earlier in your post, some seals are nearly invisible when scanned using a single light source scanner. That I already concurred with you on that. But at least he has the Registrar's signature.
Whether he is eligible for POTUS should be discussed in another thread.

In the modern day.. when the Certificate was reissued... Identity theft being what it is..

Seals, Watermarks, Security Tapes... and a whole host of other assorted security verification tags are created with the express intent that they CAN NOT BE PHOTOCOPIED...

Imagine if you could photo copy or scan exact replicas of $20 dollar bills...

Originally posted by coolieno99
But at least he has the Registrar's signature.

In this post you'll find an email correspondence between ATS member Tuning Spork and Janice Akubo from the Hawaii State Department of Health, in which she states the following:

"In the State of Hawaii all certified copies of certificates of live birth have the embossed seal and registrar signature on the back of the document. Only certified copies of vitals records that require an Apostille have the embossed seal and signature on the front."

So, unless you have x-ray vision, I doubt you could see the signature. Perhaps you can write to Mr. Obama and ask him to take a picture of the BACK of the document and post it for you and your friends.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

In this post you'll find an email correspondence between ATS member Tuning Spork and Janice Akubo from the Hawaii State Department of Health, in which she states the following:

"In the State of Hawaii all certified copies of certificates of live birth have the embossed seal and registrar signature on the back of the document. Only certified copies of vitals records that require an Apostille have the embossed seal and signature on the front."

So, unless you have x-ray vision, I doubt you could see the signature. Perhaps you can write to Mr. Obama and ask him to take a picture of the BACK of the document and post it for you and your friends.

I already know that, and that's also true for other states besides Hawaii. If you look carefully at Ms. DeCosta's COLB, the Registrar's signature and the embossed seal are reversed(looking from the front side). The scanner was able to captured the signature and the embossed seal, even though they were imprinted on the back side. I've already posted a message addressing the requirement of validating a Hawaiian COLB on another thread. I'll re-posted again:

Comment by Polarik | 2008-07-03 15:03:24

The signature block on the reverse side of a Hawaiian “Certification of Live Birth” should contain the name, Alvin T. Onaka, State Registrar and Chief of the Office of Health Status Monitoring of the Hawaii Department of Health.
There are seal stamps that are attached to 6″ long arms — like a long stapler — specifically made for embossing the middle of an 8 1/2″ wide document.
The embossing seal is an ink stamp with raised ridges meant to put depressions in the paper that can be felt by hand, in addition to the inked image.
This combination is very hard to duplicate on an original document. It cannot be Photoshopped.
Someone would have to make a duplicate of the embossing seal itself.

Here's a link to Youtube video making a case that Obama's COLB is a forgery. The only comment I can make is that some embossed seals may not be visible on a scanned image. To be fair to the Obama campaign, we can ignored the evidence of the missing embossed seal(despite it appeared on Ms. DeCosta's scanned COLB). However, some of the evidences presented on the video are going to be difficult to refute. And the video stated that Obama has so far not submitted his COLB to the Federal Election Commission.

Youtube video on the validity of Obama's COLB

If Obama's was fake, Mccain would of been all over it, and him like a rash.

You think its hard for Mccain and his benchmen 'Republicans' to get wiretaps, warrants to SEARCH for the proof of this forgery?

Think about this.

Your talking about Obama creating a bogus US government DOCUMENT, then claiming it PUBLICALLY as being genuine.

Being Mccain is PART OF THAT GOVERNMENT, and Bush is his practical running mate, between the two of them im pretty sure they would have contacted or visited the extracts office, and obtain the ACTUALY geuine copy, and compared.

Or do you think people here on ATS have more reach to prove a forgery in a presidential hopefuls statements, than the PRESIDENT and his sidekick?

bottom line, if obama released a fake document, mccain would of proved it by now.

Originally posted by coolieno99
And the video stated that Obama has so far not submitted his COLB to the Federal Election Commission.

And how does the video know that? Man, you cannot believe everything you read on the Internet. Use some common sense.

coolieno99, Anyone can make a YouTube video and print words on the screen. Where's the evidence that Obama's BC has not been submitted to the FEC? We have covered ALL of this in this and other threads.

The video is nearly 7 minutes long and they took all that time to go over all the fear propaganda about his father's race and the fake BC, but when it came to the one issue that may actually prevent a person from becoming president, (Obama being a natural born citizen), they tell the viewer to Google it! LOL

There is nothing that's going to convince you. And there's certainly nothing on the Internet that's going to convince me. Only the FEC or the State Dept making an announcement is going to convince me. I'm certainly not going to believe a video some chump put on YouTube!

Have fun with it.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
If Obama's was fake, Mccain would of been all over it, and him like a rash.

You think its hard for Mccain and his benchmen 'Republicans' to get wiretaps, warrants to SEARCH for the proof of this forgery?
.....

IMHO McCain has done nothing is because Obama is still not the official nominee until after August conventiion selects him. But all this is a moot point for the Republicans since Obama still have to submit a real COLB to the Federal Election Commission to qualify as a POTUS candidate.
OTOH the Democratic National Committee should look into this to prevent a major crisis and egg-in-the-face embarrassment to the party.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
... The video is nearly 7 minutes long and they took all that time to go over all the fear propaganda about his father's race and the fake BC, but when it came to the one issue that may actually prevent a person from becoming president, (Obama being a natural born citizen), they tell the viewer to Google it! LOL ....

This is going to be a little off-topic; the rule is if the father is not a U.S. citizen, then the mother(a U.S. citizen) must be at least 19 years old when the child is born, then that child is considered a natural born citizen. This is the rule that was in effect at the time when Obama was born. The problem is that Obama's mother was 18 years old at the time when Barack was born. There's still some dispute over the legality of the rule at this time.

Originally posted by coolieno99
the rule is if the father is not a U.S. citizen, then the mother(a U.S. citizen) must be at least 19 years old when the child is born, then that child is considered a natural born citizen. This is the rule that was in effect at the time when Obama was born. The problem is that Obama's mother was 18 years old at the time when Barack was born. There's still some dispute over the legality of the rule at this time.

That is only true for a child born outside the US. If a baby is born inside the US, even if the mother is 10 years old, the baby is a natural born citizen.

See this post for sources. REAL sources. LEGAL sources. Not blogs or opinion pieces. These are from the LAW.

[edit on 11-7-2008 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
... That is only true for a child born outside the US. If a baby is born inside the US, even if the mother is 10 years old, the baby is a natural born citizen. ....

For the moment, let's say what you said is correct. Obama still has to present a certified COLB to prove he is natural born. We cannot take his or anybody's words for it.
The Obama campaign can very easily dispel any doubts about the authenicity of his COLB, by just scanning the back side and show the registrar's signature and seal. And even better yet, reveal his certificate number (like John McCain), so that it can be verify with Hawaii DOH.