Would You Kill Adolph Hitler, Before He Was Born?

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posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 06:40 AM
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Well its an interesting take on the anti-abortion issue....

Simply put, the only way you could kill Hitler before he was born would be to kill or severely injure his mother during pregnancy, or kill his father before intercourse occured.

Failing that, no one apart from the mother has any real right to dictate what is happening to her body. So you could present her with the facts of what was likely to happen when her son was born and ask her to decide.

However any way you dealt with it you put yourself in a paradoxical position, because if you succeed, you remove the need to have done it in the first place - meaning that the linear timeline would reset, because your visit had not been necessary, thus you wouldn't have pondered what to do about Hitler and therefore not have gone, therefore negating your journey and making things revert back to the point where you'd be considering whether you should try and do something about Hitler before he was born.

Time paradox's are fascinating, aren't they?




posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 07:08 AM
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OK, I'll repeat my question (to the OP or anyone else who feels inclined to answer):
why not "kill" Princip, then?

Without WW I there would be no WW II.

The answer(s) will, hopefully (if they are based on the knowledge of historical facts), clearly show the absurdity of Hitler-centred retroactive killing plans.





[edit on 18-6-2008 by Vanitas]



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 07:30 AM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating
Contrary to popular religious opinion I dont believe any child is born evil ("born in sin"). So rather than killing the kid I´d lead it to other paths of education.

Yours is a variation of the basic philosophical question of "would you kill one to save millions", to which I do not have the answer because the answer depends on many, many factors.



Of course you are quite correct in where I got analogy from, Skyfloating. I do not believe in the "kill one to save millions" option, and if you've read any of My other threads on torture, or politics, or war, you will see that it is a reoccuring theme in them. While I am responding directly here to Skyfloating's post, I am as well responding to everyone else's replies as well. I'm impressed with the answers as well as the varied styles of wording in response to a unique question I have posed to ATS.

I do not believe in abortion nor murder, and certainly do not believe in Naziism nor war itself. Yes, I know My avatar is a celebrated warrior, and the name I chose is from another celebrated warrior as well as some would say a tyrant and even that the Spartan's themselves were a template so to speak of some of the most atrocious behaviors of tyrants in the past as well as present.

I've studied war My whole life only to come to the conclusion that you must fully understand war, to know how to keep the peace. Not in the sense of who's army is bigger, who has the most missiles, nor who has the most tanks, but in knowing and understanding war itself you know how to avoid it all costs through knowing how to defeat your enemies using their weapons against them.

I am not referring to using their blade to slit their throat, but it knowing how they think in order to make them lower it without incident.

I am not referring to knowing the make and model of their gun but in knowing how to communicate with them in order talk them into submission.

I am not referring to understanding how their tanks works in order to know how to drive it against them, but in knowing the tactics of it in order to know how to block them without firing a single shot in order to make them surrender.

I am indeed impressed with the answers I've received so far in this new forum area, and look forward to even more as the day goes by.

[edit on 18-6-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 07:35 AM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


So if a government-spook seeking to employ you asks: "Would you kill one to save thousands?" you´d probably answer:

"I dont believe in the necessity to kill either one OR a thousand".



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 07:49 AM
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reply to post by neformore
 





Simply put, the only way you could kill Hitler before he was born would be to kill or severely injure his mother during pregnancy, or kill his father before intercourse occured.


Or, you could go Back to the Future on him and just see to it that the mother or father falls in love with you instead of each other, therefore they never do the deed, no baby Hitler and then no one has to die.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 07:58 AM
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Originally posted by Vanitas

OK, I'll repeat my question (to the OP or anyone else who feels inclined to answer):
why not "kill" Princip, then?

Without WW I there would be no WW II.

The answer(s) will, hopefully (if they are based on the knowledge of historical facts), clearly show the absurdity of Hitler-centred retroactive killing plans.



[edit on 18-6-2008 by Vanitas]


Some historians argue that WWI and WWII were one war with a hiatus of a few years.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 08:12 AM
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Interesting question, I recently thought about it quite seriously because I am in germany and in many ways I still see the tragic aftermath of the nazi regime,
including israel and all the # that is brewing there these days.
I came to the conclusion that I would not kill anybody because violence begets
violence, what I would do if it were possible is to return to before the 1st world war, I would carry a modern dvd camera with me including a documentation of all the nasty things that came to pass through these wars. I would find a way
to meet the poeple that were in power at the time, not only in germany but all the relevant countries including russia, china and japan I would show them the documentation and then allow history to take its course.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 09:29 AM
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Originally posted by Vanitas

OK, I'll repeat my question (to the OP or anyone else who feels inclined to answer):
why not "kill" Princip, then?

Without WW I there would be no WW II.

The answer(s) will, hopefully (if they are based on the knowledge of historical facts), clearly show the absurdity of Hitler-centred retroactive killing plans.


[edit on 18-6-2008 by Vanitas]


That is just as conceivable a question as the one posed. The problem is to answer your question, it would derail this thread and go off topic.

The thread was never about time travel perse, but about killing an unborn Adolph Hitler.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 09:38 AM
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I would not kill Adolph simply because it's impossible to know the alternative outcome. It seems to me that this questions is based on the presumption that by killing Hitler, we would not have had the war, the holocaust and everything with it, but that would be wrong. We don't know who would have ruled in his place. It is highly likely that a more sane ruler would have taken his place, but there are no guarantees of this.

My spiritual side also prevents me from killing Hitler because I believe that the world is not a matter of choices but destinies. Hitler's rise to power and reign was already planned by our higher consciousness so what will be will be. No matter what we could have done to prevent history would have happened anyway, in my opinion.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 09:43 AM
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Nope, i wouldn't kill him...

If your saying if i could travel back in time and kill him...well no, i'd give him all the details / plans of how the war went, where he went wrong, so he can fix the mistakes he made and do a proper job this time round.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 09:46 AM
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I wouldn't kill him. I tend to believe that when large scale events happen, they were meant to happen. I think that individuals have free will, but the universe, or fate, or destiny, or whatever you might call it, has a hand in larger events. Hitler happened because he was meant to happen in that point in time. Killing him before he was born would have no significant impact on the grand scheme of things, it would only change the details. Someone else would have done as he did. The universe did not so much create Hitler as it created an environment in which a Hitler was inevitable.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 10:09 AM
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Originally posted by Karlhungis
[Or, you could go Back to the Future on him and just see to it that the mother or father falls in love with you instead of each other, therefore they never do the deed, no baby Hitler and then no one has to die.


But if you prevent his inception, then your need to go back and prevent it is removed, and therefore you wouldn't be going back in time to prevent his inception, so the status quo will remain and the child will still be born.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 10:19 AM
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What if Hitler killed or had killed someone that would have turned out worse than Hitler ten fold? We would be saying "If only Hitler wouldn't have died, this other monster wouldn't have lived"



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 10:21 AM
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reply to post by Fathom
 


My thoughts exactly!
It's amazing how few people seem to realise that (I don't mean just on this board).



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 10:25 AM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 



I never thought it was about "time travel".
(Or I wouldn't have responded at all.
)

But it seems that Hitler is such a popular target for obvious ethical and other related issues. The question of his regime's victims - notably their quantity - emerges all the time as the main reason for his retroactive "killing".

In that light, I don't see why not choosing Princip instead - PRECISELY because it's basically the same question.






[edit on 18-6-2008 by Vanitas]



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 10:28 AM
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Some historians argue that WWI and WWII were one war with a hiatus of a few years.


It's a valid thought.

Certainly there wouldn't have been WW II without the first one.
(I know - I am repeating myself.
)




[edit on 18-6-2008 by Vanitas]



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 11:33 AM
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Why single out Hitler?

The dude was simply a spokesperson for what many German officials and citizens believed.

Its funny how Hitler is always blamed but people fail to realize the main people to blame is the twisted Society that actually condone that sort of behavior. What does that tell you about modern day society?



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 12:01 PM
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Why should I kill HIM? He has done some goods.

The Jews caused more than 11 million deaths after WW II, USA has caused more deaths than he did.

Just why he killed so many Jews? something wrong with Jews?



By the way if were saying we could go back in time, then I should clone Hitler into dozens of him and put some in Israel.





[edit on 18-6-2008 by cheebay]

[edit on 18-6-2008 by cheebay]



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 12:28 PM
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Originally posted by cheebay
Why should I kill HIM? He has done some goods.

The Jews caused more than 11 million deaths after WW II, USA has caused more deaths than he did.

Just why he killed so many Jews? something wrong with Jews?



By the way if were saying we could go back in time, then I should clone Hitler into dozens of him and put some in Israel.

[edit on 18-6-2008 by cheebay]

[edit on 18-6-2008 by cheebay]


I don't see where you're coming from at all, and I'm not sure anyone else does either.

I think you may have missed the entire meaning of the original post I did.



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 01:02 PM
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I would program Hitler with the best OUR TELEVISON has to offer, I would make him watch THE BRADY BUNCH over and over and over until the programming is so inbedded into his brain nothing short of a loving moment would be spared.

Is this a young Hitler or and old one, young minds are still impressionable.


Old ones not as much. But there are triggers in adults that they could find and use them for him.

Nurture his loving side, tell about ANN Frank, the man was self afflicted for being Jewish and Germanic two battling sides for domination.

[edit on 18-6-2008 by menguard]





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