Originally posted by joecamel
Barack Obama is a problem because of the support he's receiving. There's a lot of doubt here, on a board full of people who actively search things out to be pessimistic about, but in the liberal world he can do no wrong. The last time "a president could do no wrong," he took us into Iraq. So I think the one thing America doesn't need right now is another president who's supporters will give him 100% no matter what and tell everyone else to get with the program.

Well said.

Eight years and we apparently learned nothing.

And are there... ahem... people who will not vote for Obama because of his skin color? Most assuredly. There's a whole movement, in fact.

I understand that there are some people who are hung up on skin color but to assume EVERYONE is, is just as assinine as the assumption that all of the Obama supporters are crack addicts! That was my entire point. SOME may have issue with skin color but the MAJORITY have issue with Obama's issues!!!

Jemison

Originally posted by loam
Eight years and we apparently learned nothing.

Untrue.

I learned that I wouldn't want another Republican as President that unabashedly follows the inept path of the current administration.

That was not a hard lesson to learn either.
Got it in the first four.



- Lee

The fact is that Obama has more than enough legitimate faults and shortcomings without his opponents or the MSM having to manufacture any. I have read many of the lies about Obama sent through e-mail. I always take such e-mails for what they're worth, and certainly don't allow them to sway my opinions/beliefs.

I think that the real problem here is that so many of Obama's supporters are so caught up in his apparent stardom that they find it nearly impossible for anyone to oppose him based on anything other than his race or the lies told about him. Believe me when I tell you... Obama is far from perfect. He is inexperienced, and that inexperience shows itself whenever he is caught outside the comfort of a prepared speech. Obama will be further exposed when he has to face McCain in as many debates as McCain wishes for. After all, it was Obama who promised to debate McCain at any time and at any place.

I just ask all of the Obama supporters to take a step back and look at this man objectively. Because it seems to me that no matter what he says, no matter how Marxist or Socialist it sounds, his crowds will cheer madly. Those of you who support this man for President should be careful. You just may get what you wish for...

Originally posted by joecamel
Barack Obama is a problem because of the support he's receiving. There's a lot of doubt here, on a board full of people who actively search things out to be pessimistic about, but in the liberal world he can do no wrong.

Well, I'm not a liberal although I have some political positions that align with liberal beliefs, but Obama CAN do wrong. And is, in my opinion. What I think you're seeing is a comparative approval. For example, if you were forced to eat sand for 4-8 years and someone offered you tofu, you might rave over the creaminess, smoothness and the comparative deliciousness of it.

Barack Obama is tofu. And there's even some chocolate bits with creamy caramel centers in there, too. He's not perfect. He's not meat and potatoes with apple pie for dessert, but he will sustain us and keep us from dying.

This country has been heading for a precipice for years now. The people feel like there is no hope. And along comes Barack Obama with a message of hope, some great ideas, some OK ideas and some bad ideas, but the most important thing is that he's someone who has a chance to "save" this country form the downward spiraling spinout that GW Bush has put us in.

So, yeah, to some, he feels a little like a savior.

The last time "a president could do no wrong," he took us into Iraq.

But Obama is 180 degrees out from Bush. He's the exact opposite. Bush = BAD. Obama = Good. Not perfect, but good.

I'd like to elect somebody who's going to keep America on their toes.

Like who? There's no chance that Ron Paul would get elected. And I disagree with him on more things than I disagree with Obama on.

Since when did DEMOCRATS start embracing smooth-talking Ivy Leaguers?

I'm not a democrat, but what's wrong with an intelligent, educated man who is articulate and has a good positive vision for this country? What exactly would be wrong with a JFK?

[edit on 18-6-2008 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by TruthWithin
It certainly seems that many people on this site are so concerned about Obama being president, mostly basing their opinions on false rumors spread across the internets.

This condition is known as Baracknophobia and was coined on the daily show with Jon Stewart. It shows the ineptitude of the MSM spreading horrible lies. It reminded me of a lot of the recent posts here, so I thought I would share.

[edit on 17-6-2008 by TruthWithin]

Actually, I see more examples here of a condition that I'll coin the term for - Barackophilia. This is a condition where people are so blindly in love with Obama that they will say and do anything to defend him - even when the criticism is justified. Like you see between boyfriends and girlfriends and mothers and wayward children.

At least some of the criticisms for Obama are valid. The man is hardly running a perfect campaign. How about taking a step back to at least acknowledge those, and the rest of what you say will gain more credibility.

What I am disgusted about is Obamaphiles lack of interest in discussing the issues. There have been many threads started to discuss the issues, and the Obamaphiles ignore those threads like the plague.

If you can't support Obama on the issues, then why do you support him?

Originally posted by poet1b
What I am disgusted about is Obamaphiles lack of interest in discussing the issues.

Oh, really? Where are these threads? Because here's one that examines the issues and almost every person in there supports Obama. I don't think one McCain supporter showed up.

Where are these threads about the issues that Obama supporters are refusing to post in? I know I've been posting in a lot of them.

(You know, calling someone an "Obamaphile" simply because they're voting for him is the same as calling someone a racist simply because they're NOT. It's based on assumption...)

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by poet1b
What I am disgusted about is Obamaphiles lack of interest in discussing the issues.

(You know, calling someone an "Obamaphile" simply because they're voting for him is the same as calling someone a racist simply because they're NOT. It's based on assumption...)

Actually, "Obamaphile" has been defined here as someone who blindly and/or dogmatically supports Obama to the point of ignoring any real problems with Obama and/or his campaign. An Obama sycophant, if you will. So, it is not just someone who is voting for him.

[edit on 6/18/2008 by centurion1211]

Remember when JFK was running for president and everybody believed that he would take orders directly from the Pope? He was the only non-WASP president we've ever had, except for Martin Van Buren, who was of Dutch descent, which is basically the same thing. It's about goddam time that we, as a nation, break out of this elitest control issue. People, however, want to be controlled and to preserve the status quo.

OK, so now we have:

"Baracknophobia", someone who is afraid of Omama becoming president.

"Barackophilia", being someone that is "blindly in love with Obama".

"Obamaphile", "blindly and/or dogmatically supports Obama". see Barackophilia.

How about:

"The Obaminator", a machine that comes from the future, who supports Obama, knows he has flaws, and is out to uncover the truth about the rampant internet rumors?

That sounds like Benevolent Heretic.


Coming soon to a theater near you.

edit:spleling

[edit on 6/18/2008 by Hal9000]

Originally posted by centurion1211
Actually, "Obamaphile" has been defined here as someone who blindly and/or dogmatically supports Obama to the point of ignoring any real problems with Obama and/or his campaign. An Obama sycophant, if you will. So, it is not just someone who is voting for him.

Fair enough, but it's sure thrown around a lot. I don't think there is anyone here who blindly and dogmatically supports Obama. Some just agree with what he stands for. There's a difference.

Originally posted by Hal9000
"The Obaminator"...

That sounds like Benevolent Heretic.

I like it! Check my avatar.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
This country has been heading for a precipice for years now. The people feel like there is no hope. And along comes Barack Obama with a message of hope, some great ideas, some OK ideas and some bad ideas, but the most important thing is that he's someone who has a chance to "save" this country form the downward spiraling spinout that GW Bush has put us in.

So, yeah, to some, he feels a little like a savior.

This, I get. And believe me, compared to what we have now, I'm ok with someone I trust less less.

Originally posted by Hal9000
Let me tell you something. It is BECAUSE of George Bush and the neocon administration is exactly why I AM supporting Obama. We can't have a third term of GB, which is what we will have if McCain is elected. Obama if anything is inspiring, and he is saying he will end the war in Iraq, which you complained about. McCain wants to keep it going.

I think you had better check your logic function, or at least upgrade it.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
But Obama is 180 degrees out from Bush. He's the exact opposite. Bush = BAD. Obama = Good. Not perfect, but good.

It's this kind of juvenile defensiveness that turns me off. Do you really feel like you have to boil it down for me? "Let me tell you something." Like there's just something I haven't considered? "Bush = Bad. Obama = Good." Like all of a sudden your equation is going to bring it all together? "He's the exact opposite. 180 degrees." That kind of thing shouldn't exist in nature, and when it does, it usually means the two are connected somehow.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Like who? There's no chance that Ron Paul would get elected. And I disagree with him on more things than I disagree with Obama on.

I should have been more clear with my statement, I'm sorry. What I meant to say was, I feel we need a president who's going to keep Americans on their toes. I'm not looking for a mythic contender to put the system in its place. I want a guy the American people are going to keep up with and stay vocal about. Somebody that's not going to feel like a huge relief, so once 2009 rolls around and we had the most amazing New Years Eve party ever to celebrate Bush being gone, it's not so easy to go on with our lives never asking about what the Commander in Chief of a continental army is doing.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I'm not a democrat, but what's wrong with an intelligent, educated man who is articulate and has a good positive vision for this country? What exactly would be wrong with a JFK?

JFK was an idealistic GWB. One of a group of presidential contenders groomed from the start to secure power in America. Backed by questionable money from questionable sources. Momo Giancana? The same disgusting tactics employed by Richard M. Nixon ten years later? Why do you think Nixon was so angry he got caught? Because he took a fall.

I don't want to debate JFK thought. Suffice to say, I can separate a man from his policy and Obama has my vote like George W. Bush has my sympathy. But Obama does not have my trust. He's just another guy in the system. Nothing more, nothing less.

Originally posted by joecamel
It's this kind of juvenile defensiveness that turns me off. Do you really feel like you have to boil it down for me?

I was trying to be funny with the "Bush = Bad. Obama = Good" thing. I certainly didn't mean any offense.

I'm not looking for a mythic contender to put the system in its place. I want a guy the American people are going to keep up with and stay vocal about.

I think we will. There are people who are star struck by Obama, but many (like me) came to support him a bit late in the game and see his humanness. Besides, his detractors aren't just going to go away. They will be reminding us of why we voted for the wrong guy, just as we have been reminding them of how terrible GW Bush is for years now.

JFK was an idealistic GWB.

I meant in terms of being a smooth-talking Ivy Leaguer, intelligent and educated. GWB is none of the above.

But Obama does not have my trust. He's just another guy in the system. Nothing more, nothing less.

I get that that's your opinion. I DO trust him. For now. I may be disappointed in the future and I"ll be the first to admit that I was wrong if that happens, but for now, I believe the US needs someone to believe in. I think we're hurting from being abused by the power in this country. And I think Obama can offer some of what we need. I still have faith in people, and even though he's a politician with probably all that entails, I think he's the best option we have available at this time. And that's why I'm voting for him. Not because I think he walks on water and is the PERFECT president.

It's possible he's as slimy as the next politician and saw an opportunity to step in and fill a void that this country is feeling and he'll get in office and be a real jerk. But I haven't seen ANY indication of that and I will only believe it when I see it.

[edit on 18-6-2008 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by joecamel
It's this kind of juvenile defensiveness that turns me off. Do you really feel like you have to boil it down for me? "Let me tell you something." Like there's just something I haven't considered? "Bush = Bad. Obama = Good." Like all of a sudden your equation is going to bring it all together? "He's the exact opposite. 180 degrees." That kind of thing shouldn't exist in nature, and when it does, it usually means the two are connected somehow.

I will admit that my post was kind of a knee jerk reaction, and yes it was juvenile. I just don't understand how you would prefer someone that is not trusted, so everyone keeps a better eye on them. I understand that what you are saying is that you think people have not been paying attention previously and that has lead up to the current situation, and I would agree to that. But I don't think you understand what people are excited about.

We are not just excited about Barack Obama the man. We are excited about feelling good about our country again. We don't want another president that is going to continue the current policies. This is what Obama brings and something even Hillary can't. That doesn't mean he will get a free ride, nobody is saying that, but he does bring an inspiration that has been lacking. You may see that as cult like, but it is really a patriotic feeling and there is nothing wrong with that.

Like JFK, I think he will surprise everybody and turn out to be a good president. I think Obama will use his ability to talk to other foreign leaders as well as the American public. The only problem I see, is that he will be badgered by the right in continuous slander, and they will be out to make him look bad. So yes, we will need to keep an eye on things, but it will not just be Obama we need to watch.

[edit on 6/18/2008 by Hal9000]

[edit on 6/19/2008 by Hal9000]