Our International Image Regarding the Election

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posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 11:37 AM
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Many election discussions center around issues such as abortion, the war and the economy. I'd like to talk about an issue that isn't listed in most of the online discussions and that is our standing in the rest of the world. I want to talk about our reputation. It's anywhere from "The greatest country on earth" (interestingly, by some people who live here) to "An arrogant dictatorship and empire" (interestingly, by some people who live here).

Politics: Fact or Fiction puts out a statement and then 2 people give their opinion whether the statement is Fact or Fiction and they give their reasons why. This week, they speak about several issues but cover this one in an interesting way.



2. There is no denying that under the Bush presidency, America's image and standing in the world has plummeted. Regardless of whether John McCain or Barack Obama gets elected in November, when Bush leaves office in January of 2009, he will take America's negative image with him.

Michael Link: FICTION. I believe it's going to take at least 2 full terms of competent governing for America to repair the damage done by the Bush Bull**** Express - and that's only if the US stands before the world and admits he totally screwed things up. With an unjustifiable war and an economy so bad it's dragging the rest of the world down with it, it's going to take a highly charismatic political genius to overcome this mess (Obama ain't it!). Also, let's not forget that resentment for the US has been beneficial politically for countries such as Iran, Russia, and Venezuela, so it's going to be milked for all it's worth.

Scott McNaughton: FICTION. An international perspective offers what I'm sure many Americans already know, the world has a sour taste in its collective mouth because of the past eight years. But there is a faint ray of hope for you Americans, the world is willing to forgive and work with you to fix the problems you created. A shocker, I am sure, but the rest of the world knows that there is still time to make this world a better place as long as you kick Bush out of office.

But here is the kicker, while we may want to work with you and have hope you will ALL see the mistakes you have made, we still won't like you. Sorry, being THE world superpower does that. You will have to prove to the world that you are ready to cooperate with the rest of us, and to make things right. Obama, believe it or not, is what many on the international stage believe can be the first step to repairing the international image of the United States.


Edited for language.


I agree with the opinions posted. I think that the damage Bush has done is very close to irreparable, so our reputation will suffer from that for years to come. But it's not impossible to turn this boat around.

However, I believe what we do in this election will make a big difference in how long that will take. John McCain has voted with George Bush 95% of the time. Many think another Republican presidency is a third Bush term. I agree. I have already heard MANY positive comments about the fact that Obama is even a candidate. If we were to elect him, I think it would go a long way in sending a message to the world that the PEOPLE of the US want something different than Bush. If we elect McCain, we're saying that we want to continue with the status quo (with a few minor exceptions).

Aside from the fact that I agree with a lot of Obama's policies and plans, I think he's our best chance to turn this country around and tell the world that we screwed up with George Bush, but we're not going to do it again.

Now you may ask why I care (or why you should care) what the rest of the world thinks of us. Because we live IN the world. Just as a family makes concessions to live together peacefully, just as states must follow certain guidelines to create a peaceful country, countries of the world must treat each other with respect and act honorably in our dealings to have a peaceful world. Our country has been breaking the rules of living in a peaceful world and using military might to bully other countries. We're beating up the other kids and stealing their lunch money.

Recently, Bush dismissed opinion polls that show our reputation in the world is declining, saying:



“When it comes to, where do you want to live, many people [say], ‘I’d like to live in the United States,’”


It's just not true:



So, I'd like to ask what you think. Will Bush take our negative standing with him? And if not, what are the best chances in this coming election of us restoring our place of respectability and honor in the world?

Thank you for your input.



[edit on 16-6-2008 by Benevolent Heretic]




posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 01:48 PM
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By G. W. Bush standing down as President of the US, things will start to improve and the world will give out a collective sigh of relief.

Its going to depend a lot on WHO the next President is. I am not into US Politics much and I dont pretend to even understand your system but as an outsider looking in I would say that Mcain is 'more of the same thing', whereby Obama is totally 'new' in more ways than one. As they say ''new broom, clean sweep''.

The US does have a lot of ground to make up in front of the eyes of the world, so its 'reputation' will depend on how the US is going to tackle some of the big issues. In my opinion, the US needs to lead by example not throw its weight around and interfere.

The US could take the lead in so many good things globally if only it got rid of the moneymen in the back seat. I dont believe in lobbying, its what we call ''Toadyism'' and its certainly not democratic. Politics should not be about money, it should be about what is right.



posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 02:00 PM
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Speaking for the dutch media we say that McCain is Bush the 3th and Obama is the good guy.

So when Bush leaves and Mc Cain wins there will be, generally speaking, no big difference in standing but with Obama we will watch with interest to see if he is as good as his word. But the goverment just keeps on licking the boots of the US so in that aspect there will be no difference wich person takes office, ofcourse this is not taking into account a major collapse in the economy or show of weakness. That's politics for ya.



posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Aside from the fact that I agree with a lot of Obama's policies and plans, I think he's our best chance to turn this country around and tell the world that we screwed up with George Bush, but we're not going to do it again.
Do you honestly believe Barack Obama is the man to turn this country around?He has so many ties to racists, domestic terrorists, organized crime, and Muslim activists, that I really can't see him doing anything aside from putting the final nails in America's proverbial coffin.


Now you may ask why I care (or why you should care) what the rest of the world thinks of us. Because we live IN the world. Just as a family makes concessions to live together peacefully, just as states must follow certain guidelines to create a peaceful country, countries of the world must treat each other with respect and act honorably in our dealings to have a peaceful world. Our country has been breaking the rules of living in a peaceful world and using military might to bully other countries. We're beating up the other kids and stealing their lunch money.
I don't need to ask why you care, this post is just another attempt at trying to sway people into jumping on the Obama campaign wagon.

Obama reminds me a lot of Hitler and his meteoric rise to power. Hitler too was a very charismatic man, who came out of nowhere, and convinced a whole country to be complicit with him in genocide against the Jewish people.

Nothing Hitler said made any real sense, but he had a mesmerizing quality about him which caused people to follow him despite his horrendous intentions and outright lies.

The German people are still trying to live his legacy down to this very day.



posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 03:06 PM
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Originally posted by LLoyd45
Do you honestly believe Barack Obama is the man to turn this country around?


Yes, I do.



He has so many ties to racists, domestic terrorists, organized crime, and Muslim activists, that I really can't see him doing anything aside from putting the final nails in America's proverbial coffin.


I have seen no proof of these accusations, but if you believe he's a racist criminal and terrorist, then I understand why you feel the way you do. Though I'm not sure what religion has to do with it.


I don't need to ask why you care, this post is just another attempt at trying to sway people into jumping on the Obama campaign wagon.


Actually it was an attempt to draw out and discuss our opinion (ATS members) regarding the subject of the OP, but I see I failed as you didn't answer the OP, but instead wish to discuss my motives, which are not the subject of the thread.



Obama reminds me a lot of Hitler


That would be a good reason not to vote for him.


Care to take on the task of answering the original post instead of attacking me for what you fantasize are my motives? Here's a reminder in case you forgot:


Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
So, I'd like to ask what you think. Will Bush take our negative standing with him? And if not, what are the best chances in this coming election of us restoring our place of respectability and honor in the world?

Thank you for your input.




posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 04:10 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I have seen no proof of these accusations, but if you believe he's a racist criminal and terrorist, then I understand why you feel the way you do. Though I'm not sure what religion has to do with it.
All you need to do is open your mind, do a google search, then read. It's all there for those willing to know the truth.



Actually it was an attempt to draw out and discuss our opinion (ATS members) regarding the subject of the OP, but I see I failed as you didn't answer the OP, but instead wish to discuss my motives, which are not the subject of the thread.
They may not be the stated reasons, but they were the underpinning of your post no less.


Care to take on the task of answering the original post instead of attacking me for what you fantasize are my motives? Here's a reminder in case you forgot:

So, I'd like to ask what you think. Will Bush take our negative standing with him? And if not, what are the best chances in this coming election of us restoring our place of respectability and honor in the world?
No, Bush will not take our negative standing with him. The damage has already been done, and it wil take a decade or more to undo it. With the choices we currently have, there is little to no chance of restoring our good name. The Democrats and the Republicans are one and the same. All the honest candidates have long since been left in the dust by the MSM.




[edit on 6/16/08 by LLoyd45]



posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 05:59 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Well i agree with lloyd that our best chance at really restoring this country went out the window with 2 or 3 other candidates that barley got any notice. However with what we are left with I would have to say Obama is our best chance over McCain but I really don't think I wanna vote for either. I might just try me a write in and see what happens.



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 12:42 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

So, I'd like to ask what you think. Will Bush take our negative standing with him? And if not, what are the best chances in this coming election of us restoring our place of respectability and honor in the world?



I think that this entire concept is seriously flawed on so many levels that I don't even know where to being.

1. Unless there's a way to measure the concept of "Our International Image" this entire discussion is meaningless. I.e., how are you going to determine what our image is? Who's opinions matter the most? My friends in Poland LOVE America. My friends in Romania LOVE America even more.

Are we going to allocate each foreign country "US Image" delegates and let them vote?

Does Iran's view of us count? How about N. Korea? Should we concern ourselves with how Syria views us?


2. This entire train of thought is starting down a slippery slope that is not far from the whole "appeasement" issue. Now I know Barry O. had a melt down when this word was used. But Bush had it 100% right. You can't run a country based on taking a poll of what the rest of the world thinks every time you make a decision.


3. McCain is a person of experience and is respected as an independent thinker not beholden to following the party line. He's also respected for having endured being a POW. Obama is a neophyte in this arena, just a few years removed from being a college professor. I'm 100% certain that everywhere I've traveled in the world a war hero for POTUS would generate more respect than a college professor.

You need to remember that people all over the world respect RESULTS. Anybody can talk in platitudes and say what's popular. People respect a leader who can say what's NOT popular, but true.

I would argue strongly that to whatever extent it's valuable, John McCain will generate far more respect from around the world than Obama would.



posted on Jun, 17 2008 @ 03:11 AM
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I would have to disagree on the point of Mcain being more respected because he was a war hero, he could and will be seen as a 'warmonger' by many nations.

Obama on the other hand will be seen as a 'refreshing' change. He would be the first non-white President and with no military baggage dragging around him. Just being the first non-white President will put the pressure on him to do well as President. The eyes of the whole world will be closely watching him.

You do not have to be a war hero to be a world respected leader. I think most people here would agree that Margaret Thatcher was one of the most respected world leaders of her time. She was a Chemist by the way.

I think people outside of the US just want a change in the US's direction in more ways than one. We dont want more of the same.




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