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Can anyone of you debunk the debunkers?????

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posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 08:17 PM
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so someone waited for the building to start to collapse, then perfectly timed the demo to go off. That seems impossible. They would have to set off the explosives exacltly the same time the top of the building started to come apart. (because once the top started to come down the rest of the building immediatly followed. Wouldnt there be a delay of at least a couples of seconds from when the explosives were set off, before they actually went off. Someone would have to push some kind of button, then the signal would have to relay to the explosives, then the explosives would have to go off.
youtube.com...
Watch the video above of the alladin hotel dem. The explosives all go off then about 5 seconds later the buiding collapses. So tell me how the top of a building starts to fall and then one second later the rest of the building collapses. Makes no sense.




posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 08:20 PM
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Originally posted by Beefcake
9/11 was a false flag operation to rally the people into supporting an endless war against and invisible enemy that doesn't exists except for the ones that the money powers of the world support and send money too.

I'm not going to waste much time debating with dis-info guys that no matter what anyone says they always just quote popular mechanics.

The biggest issue people have with believing 9/11 was a false flag black op is that they can't fathom the notion that anyone in our government could ever possibly think of doing such a horrible thing and for that i will just post the most incriminating portion of OPERATION NORTHWOODS.

OPERATION NORTHWOODS-Wikipedia




3. A "Remember the Maine" incident could be arranged in several forms: a. We could blow up a US ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba. b. We could blow up a drone (unmanned) vessel anywhere in the Cuban waters. We could arrange to cause such incident in the vicinity of Havana or Santiago as a spectacular result of Cuban attack from the air or sea, or both. The presence of Cuban planes or ships merely investigating the intent of the vessel could be fairly compelling evidence that the ship was taken under attack. The nearness to Havana or Santiago would add credibility especially to those people that might have heard the blast or have seen the fire. The US could follow up with an air/sea rescue operation covered by US fighters to "evacuate" remaining members of the non-existent crew. Casualty lists in US newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation.


There we have it people they thought of it before and they planned it out. Add Building 7, put options, Cheney's stand down order(see Norm Mineta testimony

Game set match


Can any Official 9/11 fraud supporters debunk any of the above pls. Like explain why Northwoods sounds so similar to what happened on 9/11. Stop talking about the same old pop mechanics garbage and address NORTHWOODS.



posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 08:24 PM
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Originally posted by SpaceBits

Aluminum cans melt just fine in camp fires.
Umm no they don't melt they just soften and flatten out,

OK so I'm no Building expert..... your point?



My point is that you're no welder if you think that the steel was cast. I noticed also that you edited out your first response where you said that hot rolled = cast. Guess you had to Google to find out the difference, eh? A welder would know.

Why do Al cans soften then? Getting hot and losing their structural integrity is a pretty good definition of melting, dontcha think?

Consider this - I've already proven you wrong about the cast iron thing. Just admit that you're not a welder and avoid any more embarassment.



posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 08:25 PM
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The one thing that is grinding my gears quite a lot is that surveillance footage of the explosion at the pentagon.
Was a plane supposed to of hit it? I never saw no plane.
The only footage i've seen is that timelapse clip. in that clip i seriously cant see a plane. does anyone know of any better video footage out there?



posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 08:29 PM
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reply to post by Beefcake
 

I agree with you, but I've got an Operation Northwoods thread here.



posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 08:29 PM
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Originally posted by Beefcake

Originally posted by Beefcake
9/11 was a false flag operation to rally the people into supporting an endless war against and invisible enemy that doesn't exists except for the ones that the money powers of the world support and send money too.

I'm not going to waste much time debating with dis-info guys that no matter what anyone says they always just quote popular mechanics.

The biggest issue people have with believing 9/11 was a false flag black op is that they can't fathom the notion that anyone in our government could ever possibly think of doing such a horrible thing and for that i will just post the most incriminating portion of OPERATION NORTHWOODS.

OPERATION NORTHWOODS-Wikipedia




3. A "Remember the Maine" incident could be arranged in several forms: a. We could blow up a US ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba. b. We could blow up a drone (unmanned) vessel anywhere in the Cuban waters. We could arrange to cause such incident in the vicinity of Havana or Santiago as a spectacular result of Cuban attack from the air or sea, or both. The presence of Cuban planes or ships merely investigating the intent of the vessel could be fairly compelling evidence that the ship was taken under attack. The nearness to Havana or Santiago would add credibility especially to those people that might have heard the blast or have seen the fire. The US could follow up with an air/sea rescue operation covered by US fighters to "evacuate" remaining members of the non-existent crew. Casualty lists in US newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation.


There we have it people they thought of it before and they planned it out. Add Building 7, put options, Cheney's stand down order(see Norm Mineta testimony

Game set match


Can any Official 9/11 fraud supporters debunk any of the above pls. Like explain why Northwoods sounds so similar to what happened on 9/11. Stop talking about the same old pop mechanics garbage and address NORTHWOODS.


Well I am pretty sure northwoods does not say anywhere they would kill thousands of innocent humans so they could go to war. And you would also have to be pretty stupid to do this with this document floating around.


[edit on 16-6-2008 by tide88]

[edit on 16-6-2008 by tide88]



posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 08:39 PM
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Originally posted by GoldenFleece
reply to post by Beefcake
 

I agree with you, but I've got an Operation Northwoods thread here.


It really doesn't matter if you have a NORTHWOODS thread because imo every thread on 9/11 should have OPERATION NORTHWOODS quoted in it. I'm happy you made a thread but this incriminating document will be seen in every 9/11 thread so your going to have to deal with it.

We also have plenty of threads on Popular (disinfo) Mechanics and on building 7 and they are still fair game so regardless get used to seeing OPERATION NORTHWOODS because it shows intent to commit false flags and that is what 9/11 was.

OPERATION NORTHWOODS can't be debunk because it was written and declassified so that's that


[edit on 16-6-2008 by Beefcake]



posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 08:46 PM
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Originally posted by Beefcake

Originally posted by GoldenFleece
reply to post by Beefcake
 

I agree with you, but I've got an Operation Northwoods thread here.


It really doesn't matter if you have a NORTHWOODS thread because imo every thread on 9/11 should have OPERATION NORTHWOODS quoted in it. I'm happy you made a thread but this incriminating document will be seen in every 9/11 thread so your going to have to deal with it.

We also have plenty of threads on Popular (disinfo) Mechanics and on building 7 and they are still fair game so regardless get used to seeing OPERATION NORTHWOODS because it shows intent to commit false flags and that is what 9/11 was.

OPERATION NORTHWOODS can't be debunk because it was written and declassified so that's that


[edit on 16-6-2008 by Beefcake]

some say operation northwoods was not written by the USA. Read here
www.public-action.com...
All about WTC7 www.debunking911.com...
The 5th video from the bottom is particularly interesting.

[edit on 16-6-2008 by tide88]



posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 08:48 PM
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Originally posted by tide88
Well I am pretty sure northwoods does not say anywhere they would kill thousands of innocent humans so they could go to war. And you would also have to be pretty stupid to do this with this document floating around.

Don't kid yourself. You should research these things before giving your opinion. The entire U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff had signed off on the plan and they were fully prepared to kill hundreds or even thousands of U.S. citizens in false flag terrorist attacks to start a war with Cuba.

JFK was the only one who had reservations. And we all know what happened to him (except tide88, who thinks he was killed by Lee Harvey Oswald.)



posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 08:51 PM
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Originally posted by tide88
Wouldnt there be a delay of at least a couples of seconds from when the explosives were set off, before they actually went off. Someone would have to push some kind of button, then the signal would have to relay to the explosives, then the explosives would have to go off.


Is there a delay when you turn your light switch on as to when the light actually turns on. No there isn't.

They had a switch board with all the detonations and all they had to do was trigger the right demo's at the right time and place/sequence.

The video you supplied seems pretty similar to the WTC buildings see the big cloud of dust... looks allot like what happened on 911. That dust cloud isn't from the explosives but from the destruction of the cement. the only difrence is the way they imploded the building... I'm not sure exactly how they did it, but there is no way 2 aluminum planes destroyed the WTC complex.

Don't you want "the real murderers" to be punished for there crimes even if it wasn't the Government? Someone aided in bringing down them buildings, and you'd think Larry Silverstien would have settled for his first insurance claim, considering what had happened to America, but no he went and robbed the people while there were still trying to cope with the destruction and loss of lives. Insurance's around the world went up because of him sueing the insurance company.



posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 09:01 PM
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Originally posted by tide88
some say operation northwoods was not written by the USA. Read here
www.public-action.com...


Well tide88, are you sure you want to go that route? I don't think too many here would argue with their thesis, but it sure doesn't lend credence to the official government 9/11 story.

From www.public-action.com...:


Let's see now ... What nation is peopled by masters of deception? Who has been using the US military as a cat's paw? Using 9-11 as a pretext, whose enemies is the US annihilating right now? Lemme think ...

A source has told me that Robert Hanssen found out about the plans of this foreign power to stage a big terrorist event in the US. Hanssen made the mistake of telling the wrong people in the FBI and was framed to keep him quiet.

Referring to Northwoods, Bamford told ABC: "The scary thing is none of this stuff comes out until 40 years later." No.

The scary thing is that the tentacles of a malevolent foreign power are deeply embedded in the most secret and powerful agencies in the US -- that this power is pulling the strings, yanking the chains, crashing airplanes into cities, sending America off to war, and gutting our traditional liberties at home.



posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 09:09 PM
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reply to post by SpaceBits
 

You can see flashes of the bombs detonating ,then there is a delay, then the building collapses. I am not necesarrily talking about a delay between when someone presses a button and the bombs go off. You know how many bombs would have to be set off for them to bring down the trade center. And the video is quite different. That alladin building comes down quite cleanly. The trade center building is falling apart all over while it comes down. And the top is falling faster than the bottom. When did they set all those explosives. It would take a massive amout of people to do this. There would be no way to cover this up. The amount of people that would have to be involved in covering this up would be astronomical. And yes I want the people responsible to be prosecuted. If you brought all of your evidence you have on a conspiracy to court, the judge would laugh and throw the case out. It is all speculation. Show me some proof.
And dont get me wrong. I respect you all who believe there is some conspiracy here. Also why does the film loose change have three different updated versions. My guess is because once one thing in thier video gets proven wrong they have to make another won with different accusations. They want it to be a conspiracy. And I think most of you do too. And yes, I hope and pray it isnt. But if the government was behind it I would like to see them hung. And this is why I actually look at these claims and then see if they can be disproven. And to say look at this document (northwoods) and say that is proof is grasping at straws. This is typical, pick something that cannot be disproven and treat it as gospel.



posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 09:11 PM
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so...
the debunkers are getting their arses kicked again huh?

like i said before....they are dropping like flies.

the truth movement is easily winning this debate once again.

why?

well...... simply because the truth movement seeks truth ...



posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 09:13 PM
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Originally posted by Seymour Butz

Originally posted by SpaceBits

Aluminum cans melt just fine in camp fires.
Umm no they don't melt they just soften and flatten out,

OK so I'm no Building expert..... your point?



My point is that you're no welder if you think that the steel was cast. I noticed also that you edited out your first response where you said that hot rolled = cast. Guess you had to Google to find out the difference, eh? A welder would know.

Why do Al cans soften then? Getting hot and losing their structural integrity is a pretty good definition of melting, dontcha think?

Consider this - I've already proven you wrong about the cast iron thing. Just admit that you're not a welder and avoid any more embarassment.


Well your right about my editing out the Cast Iron part, but only because I was reading posts quickly I didn't pay allot of attention to what you were saying till I re-read it and seen my error, I have no problem with admitting when I'm wrong. I was thinking that buildings would have been made out of Iron, I'm no building expert. But I truly just misunderstood you and thought you were taking about something else.

As for the Aluminum can losing structural integrity doesn't mean "melting". Melting metal is more like mud or water if you can get the metal hot enough.
Not to mention how long it takes for the can to begin losing it's integrity and how thin it is. It's thickness is the same as paper.

And you haven't proven me wrong other than the cast iron part and as I said, I wasn't paying allot of attention to what was said. SO i made an error there.

Can you tell us all how hot the Rolled Steel would have to have gotten to lose it's structural integrity and do you think that an open fire could get that hot?

I don't think so(The open fire part), but I'm sure you know the info on how hot it takes to make steel lose integrity?



posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 09:15 PM
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Originally posted by GoldenFleece

Originally posted by tide88
some say operation northwoods was not written by the USA. Read here
www.public-action.com...


Well tide88, are you sure you want to go that route? I don't think too many here would argue with their thesis, but it sure doesn't lend credence to the official government 9/11 story.

From www.public-action.com...:


Let's see now ... What nation is peopled by masters of deception? Who has been using the US military as a cat's paw? Using 9-11 as a pretext, whose enemies is the US annihilating right now? Lemme think ...

A source has told me that Robert Hanssen found out about the plans of this foreign power to stage a big terrorist event in the US. Hanssen made the mistake of telling the wrong people in the FBI and was framed to keep him quiet.

Referring to Northwoods, Bamford told ABC: "The scary thing is none of this stuff comes out until 40 years later." No.

The scary thing is that the tentacles of a malevolent foreign power are deeply embedded in the most secret and powerful agencies in the US -- that this power is pulling the strings, yanking the chains, crashing airplanes into cities, sending America off to war, and gutting our traditional liberties at home.


Look my point is they some claim it was written by some other government. Then planted to look like our government wrote it. It was one part I found interesting. I do not necessarily believe the rest. And just because a document is floating around out there (northwood) is absolutly no proof at all. Just speculation.



posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 09:22 PM
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Originally posted by SpaceBits

Originally posted by Seymour Butz

Originally posted by SpaceBits

Aluminum cans melt just fine in camp fires.
Umm no they don't melt they just soften and flatten out,

OK so I'm no Building expert..... your point?



My point is that you're no welder if you think that the steel was cast. I noticed also that you edited out your first response where you said that hot rolled = cast. Guess you had to Google to find out the difference, eh? A welder would know.

Why do Al cans soften then? Getting hot and losing their structural integrity is a pretty good definition of melting, dontcha think?

Consider this - I've already proven you wrong about the cast iron thing. Just admit that you're not a welder and avoid any more embarassment.




Can you tell us all how hot the Rolled Steel would have to have gotten to lose it's structural integrity and do you think that an open fire could get that hot?

I don't think so(The open fire part), but I'm sure you know the info on how hot it takes to make steel lose integrity?

NIST report says the trusses heated, expanded then cooled and contracted as the fires moved on. It was the contracting trusses which pulled the columns inward causing the collapse.
look at these pictures of this southfrance airplane. about a 1/4 of the way down on this page www.debunking911.com... I thought steel couldnt melt. You can read the whole page. Pretty much explains everything.



posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 09:31 PM
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reply to post by tide88
 


Of coarse there going to be different in the way they came down, they wanted WYC to look like an air liner took them down. What about all the fire fighters and police that were on the seen clearing people away because they said there was explosives in the building? What about all the news media claiming that building 7 had collapsed almost an hour before it collapsed? How could they have even thought it was going to collapse, if it was just a misunderstanding?

The problem is they made to many mistakes that can't just be coinsedence.
Like GWB saying he saw the first plane hit and just thought it was pilot error?
Come one he was a pilot he should know how planes work.

And what about the Empire state building? it was hit with a plane and it servived even up to today and is still in use, I believe it's still standing. I could be wrong on that part though... I've never been to NY let alone America.

I just don't buy the official story. To many lies.



posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 09:42 PM
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Originally posted by tide88
Look my point is they some claim it was written by some other government. Then planted to look like our government wrote it. It was one part I found interesting. I do not necessarily believe the rest. And just because a document is floating around out there (northwood) is absolutly no proof at all. Just speculation.

Sorry, but you don't know what you're talking about. Starting a thread that questions 9/11 conspiracy theories based on a single debunker website you found (and not a very good one) is a prime example of someone who should be reading and investigating, not posting challenges to anyone. Your opinions are based on emotions, not facts or research.

Nobody "planted" anything. Operation Northwoods is an acknowledged U.S. government military plan that was approved by every top defense department official and almost implemented. 40 years later, the top secret documents that describe Operation Northwoods were declassified by the U.S. government.

I think you're a long ways off from offering an informed opinion on anything related to 9/11. Read, study, research and THINK before you write.



posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 09:44 PM
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Originally posted by SpaceBits
reply to post by tide88
 


Of coarse there going to be different in the way they came down, they wanted WYC to look like an air liner took them down. What about all the fire fighters and police that were on the seen clearing people away because they said there was explosives in the building? What about all the news media claiming that building 7 had collapsed almost an hour before it collapsed? How could they have even thought it was going to collapse, if it was just a misunderstanding?

The problem is they made to many mistakes that can't just be coinsedence.
Like GWB saying he saw the first plane hit and just thought it was pilot error?
Come one he was a pilot he should know how planes work.

And what about the Empire state building? it was hit with a plane and it servived even up to today and is still in use, I believe it's still standing. I could be wrong on that part though... I've never been to NY let alone America.

I just don't buy the official story. To many lies.

firemens quotes explained www.debunking911.com...

The empire state building fires were contained and put out within 40 minutes.

oh and here is an interesting thing on the media claiming the building fell before it actually collapsed. www.debunking911.com... go to the bottom of the page. Everyone knew the building was going to collapse sooner or later. So someone jumped the gun or got it wrong. Do you watch the news. Reporters always want to be the first to tell it. And what would be the government purpose to let these reporter know the building was going to collapse. That alone make no sense what so ever. If it is a conspiracy you would want as few people to know about it as possible. You wouldnt give info to the news stations that building 7 was going to go down. Common sense can explain that.



posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 09:48 PM
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Originally posted by GoldenFleece

Originally posted by tide88
Look my point is they some claim it was written by some other government. Then planted to look like our government wrote it. It was one part I found interesting. I do not necessarily believe the rest. And just because a document is floating around out there (northwood) is absolutly no proof at all. Just speculation.

Sorry, but you don't know what you're talking about. Starting a thread that questions 9/11 conspiracy theories based on a single debunker website you found (and not a very good one) is a prime example of someone who should be reading and investigating, not posting challenges to anyone. Your opinions are based on emotions, not facts or research.

Nobody "planted" anything. Operation Northwoods is an acknowledged U.S. government military plan that was approved by every top defense department official and almost implemented. 40 years later, the top secret documents that describe Operation Northwoods were declassified by the U.S. government.

I think you're a long ways off from offering an informed opinion on anything related to 9/11. Read, study, research and THINK before you write.


Whatever. I looked at both sides and this side basically refutes any of your claimes. At least 80%. My point of starting this thread is to see if you could debunk what that site is saying. But it sure as hell debunks about 80-90% of what most conpiracy theorist are claiming. But i guess this thread is kind of rediculous anyway. You have your mind set. The government was behind it. And nothing is going to change your mind. Sorry I have no more time to waste on this subject tonight. I need to sleep before I go to work tomorrow. Good Night All. Oh and btw Operation Northwoods proves absolutly nothing.

[edit on 16-6-2008 by tide88]



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