Intelligent people less likely to believe in God

Originally posted by ALightinDarkness

Sure the article is true. There is a inverse relationship between intelligence (which has gone up) and belief in god (which has gone down). This is absolutely meaningless, because it does not provide any evidence that there is a link between the two. In fact, it could be a completely spurious correlation - as most correlations are.

I left out everything else in your post, because it was emotionally motivated and didn't have an ounce of merit except for you venting at me.

However, this last paragraph that you posted makes a lot of sense. The fact that one has gone up and another has gone down is a very good point to make.

However, that doesn't preclude the fact that the vast majority of the people "losing faith" are those with higher educations. This doesn't mean that it is "Smart to stop believing in God", it simply means that those with higher levels of intelligence are "less likely" to believe in God (during these times).


As I mentioned above though, you draw a good picture as to why some of this might occur.

In the essence of full disclosure, I myself believe that God is the term we give to the things we don't understand, or need to understand. It's a point of reference and of reverence. I don't think it is smart to believe in God, nor do I think it is smart *not* to believe in God.

I would like to make one more point, which is along the same lines as your quote I posted above. I for one am *against* religion these days. Not because I think it is wrong to believe in God, or anything of the kind, but because of the level of hate which is perpetrated in the name of religion these days. That might also be a cause as to why intelligent people are "less likely" to believe in God, during these specific times that we live in.

Originally posted by uknow_me72
reply to post by Quazga

 

This only a way that the media and powers at hand to play of your ego to enforce their views on.

Look at it what it really is.

OP you believe in God so why would you post this?

Well, I wouldn't say I believe in God, at least not in the way most people mean. My version of God is much different when contrasted with the rest of the people I have met. Personally, what God is, changes for me as I grow. I don't follow any particular religion, and at this point in my life believe more in an "impersonal Universe" than I do in some type of supreme being. At the same time I am entranced by both the order and the chaos I see around me.

As a human, I project a human face on the phenomena around me, which allows me to attempt to relate to it like one would another being. That doesn't mean that I ultimately believe that my projections exist outside my own mind. However I will work within the illusion that has me, while at the same time understanding that it is all a phenomena of the mind.

Ahh well being an atheist myself I wouldn't call myself intelligent although one thing I have found and which maybe related is that more intelligent people I know tend to be less happier in life, remember ignorance is bliss.

Intelligent People Less Likely To Believe In God?

How intelligent is that? Not to believe in God, that is. At the end of your life, does anyone care what your IQ was? It's about what you did to help others while you were on earth!

Isn’t there also a link between intelligence and ego? I mean if you love yourself, how smart you are how those below you are less worthy then you’ll obviously have less loving time for any “god”. Of course Stephen Hawkins is the most immediate contrary to the intelligence/religion thing as he is a firm believer in god, but he also has obvious reasons for having a lower ego.

Einstein is probably the best known and most highly revered scientist of the twentieth century, and is associated with major revolutions in our thinking about time, gravity, and the conversion of matter to energy (E=mc2). Although never coming to belief in a personal God, he recognized the impossibility of a non-created universe. The Encyclopedia Britannica says of him: "Firmly denying atheism, Einstein expressed a belief in "Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of what exists." This actually motivated his interest in science, as he once remarked to a young physicist: "I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details." Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncertainty principle" was "God does not play dice" - and to him this was a real statement about a God in whom he believed. A famous saying of his was "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

www.godandscience.org...

I don't think you're the first to bring Einstein into this for whatever reason (and I hate to bother banging his drum), so it's not personally directed at you Sd

Originally posted by Stormdancer777

lots of cherrypicked einstein quotes to suggest his religiousity

www.godandscience.org...

But lets not forget the less well-known Einstein hits:

The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this. These subtilised interpretations are highly manifold according to their nature and have almost nothing to do with the original text. For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions.

Einstein 1954

My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment.

Einstein 1950

I am a deeply religious nonbeliever.… This is a somewhat new kind of religion.

Einstein 1954

I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being.

Einstein 1949

He was essentially agnostic. And his earlier claims (i.e. 1920s/30s) of Spinoza's god is more a form of pantheism. His belief, when he claimed it, was impersonal, abstract, really just awe at nature itself.

So, please leave him in peace. He wasn't religious in a way comparable to anything like how most religious people view such things. He was also obviously not an explicit atheist. Many scientists express such awe at nature itself.

Don't know why people bring him into such discussions. He was clever, but his religiousity was unrecognisable to most (from what I see, perhaps more similar to Quazga).

[edit on 13-6-2008 by melatonin]

reply to post by melatonin



Well either they are his quotes or they are not.

I am not going to argue with you.


[edit on 073030p://bFriday2008 by Stormdancer777]

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
Well either they are his quotes or they are not.

I am not going to argue with you.

Eegads...everyone's just so touchy lately.

Who's trying to argue? I just clarified that Einstein appeared at most to be nothing like most people see a theist, and more likely, an agnostic.

Ai, scratch it.

Yes, I agree completely with you. There is no need for clarification.

...

...

Um, all it really says is: "People who have been through the atheist education system longer are more prone to be atheist." Wow, that takes a genius to figure out! This man might just become a champion to the pseudo-intelligent hordes that plague the world, though. Ugh.

reply to post by melatonin


Awesome Melatonin. That's essentially my stance too. We don't know whats out there, but to believe that the most powerful 'being' in the universe, and the one that created the universe itself is subject to petty jealousy and functions on a reward/punishment standard like a dog with a biscuit or rolled up newspaper is ridiculous.

reply to post by Quazga


Statistics and logic are now venting? Ok.

I am glad we agree on some things, but the data do not show any correlation between belief and god and education level. The relationship between IQ and education level is shaky at best, especially in countries like the US where a college degree is the new high school and is considered an entitlement. All this study looked at was IQ, and not educational attainment.

My personal experiences, while not generalizable, are quite the opposite. While there are certainly a contingent of atheists within academia, I'd say at my university about 40% are atheists and 60% are deists. This is a top ranked school, so we're not talking about Podunk University. This is among graduate students and professors, as I do not consider undergraduate degrees "educational attainment" due to its entitlement status in the US.

Being against religion is for 95% of people a fad, and it is born from the idea that it is hip and trendy to rebel against institutions. As with all fads, it will die out in a few years and then re-emerge again in the next few.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Awesome Melatonin. That's essentially my stance too. We don't know whats out there, but to believe that the most powerful 'being' in the universe, and the one that created the universe itself is subject to petty jealousy and functions on a reward/punishment standard like a dog with a biscuit or rolled up newspaper is ridiculous.

Just to clarify, I do go further than Einstein myself, I'm a baby-eating atheist of course (basically I accept the label as a heathen). Not sure if I'm a professional one. I've never been paid for it, but if someone does pay, I'll take the money and run. Moreover, I'm one of the few Einstein overlooks who has never been a theist (probably much more common these days [Yay!], certainly in Europe).

If the Professional Atheist Panel (PAP) is reading, shoot me a U2U if you like what you see.

I did have another post reply brewing, but I learn by experience, rofl.



[edit on 13-6-2008 by melatonin]

i grew up catholic, i went to a parochial school, and a public high school then Loyola University..and on to more schooling and degrees blah blah blah ad nauseum
I am not what i would call Intelligent like a 'good will hunting'
and i feel it is not the intelligent but the very educated which lose a grip on faith
Faith is a phenomenon which is discussed but a journey and a belief which can not be found in reading, experimenting or testing. Faith is found and learned and practiced and carried, it is not given or can it be taught.
It is discovered through of course experiencing the world and the works of inexplicable character and wonder that the spark and beauty of the Creator may be witnessed and felt.
Jaded through study or discussion and the rhetoric of religion and the historical corruption and archaic customs and laws and attitudes make for faith harder to see and feel.
it isn't the intelligent who are lacking it is the insensitive to faith.
I have struggled with belief and faith my whole life, and study has helped but Church Mass, Temple on Sabbath, Halloween, MidSummer, whatever
these have only distanced me as well as they are quaint almost ridiculous in my eyes social constructs for morality and interaction
religion does not equal faith
faith is found in the most humble to the most arrogant as long as they are sensitive and open to it.

reply to post by melatonin



I don't know what your views are regarding the existence of a Creator. You call yourself a "baby eating atheist" and propel yourself (in your mind) ahead of Einstein in that regard.

You call Einstein an agnostic. I don't care for that definition; it has the same limitations as the evangelical's definition of God. I don't think you know what Einstein meant when he said he was deeply religious. From the first quote I supplied way back when:

A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty - it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man. (Albert Einstein)


Einstein is not the end-all and be-all when it comes to my views of religion. I only brought him up because of the absurd title of this thread. I find it amusing to watch people attempt to deny the existence of anything greater than what their "intelligence" can comprehend. It is cool to be considered intelligent if you have no religion. Sort of like that thread that asked "How do people with IQ's of 140-200 think?" People were climbing all over themselves to offer their "intelligent" input. Hilarious.

reply to post by melatonin


I know you're an atheist based on previous posts. What I meant was that my beliefs were in line with Einsteins.

The funny thing is that you say you're one step past Einstein, but it seems like you're one step behind.

IMHO....

lol so what your saying is morons and apt mindset people are prone to believing in God haha, note one thing about the supersmart people as u want to call them.....thier ego is so huge they conform to the idea they dont need God or his love because they are so much smarter than Him, hmmm funny.

reply to post by jsobecky


Agnosticism?

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, two droids sat quietly within the hull of the Millennium Falcon as it raced through the emptiness of space. They rested quietly for the longest time as if their power was off, or deep in thought. Suddenly C-3PO straightened up excitedly and smacked R2-D2.
“Oh, my!” said C-3PO. “I figured it out!”
R2-D2 chirped and whistled.
“Figured out what? Why, the last thing to be figured out… the mystery of the universe.” C-3PO paused for a moment. “We evolved!”
R2 rocked back and forth with several quick chirps.
“What are you laughing at you ancient bucket of bolts. You are far too dated to even begin to understand my highly advanced line of thinking. It would take thousands of credits to upgrade your system to match mine.”
Again, R2 buzzed as he rocked back and forth. This time C-3PO stood up and looked sternly at R2. “That is just your problem… you believe everything you read. Just because your manufacturing seal says, “Industrial Automation” doesn’t mean they created you. You evolved, just like me!”
Immediately R2 shot back with a long stream of whistles, beeps and chirps.
“The Force? That is the most ridiculous thing to ever come out you. The Force created nothing. It is just a figment of mans imagination to explain things that can not be explained by their highly under developed brains.”
R2 then chirped again.
“Oh, good. I knew you would come to see that I was right.”
R2 chirped and whistled again as he rocked back and forth.
“What? I did not evolve from a garbage disposal!”
Luke Skywalker then entered the room lightly chuckling. “I overheard your conversation guys, and I have to agree with R2… it has been quite amusing.”
“Master, I thought that of all people you would able to see my logic is correct.”
Luke just smiled. “It takes an intelligence to design and create something. It’s just that simple. Like it or not.” Luke was about to leave the room when he stopped and looked back at C-3PO. “You think way too much. I would say, just quiet yourself and listen to the Force, but… you’re a droid. You couldn’t hear the Force even if you wanted to.”

BTW Smart people don't believe everything they read...

"Intelligent people less likey to beileve in God"