BBC uncovers lost Iraq billions

reply to post by Dramey

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20 billion is not that much, did you forget that Rumsfeld told congress on Sept 10th, 2001 that we can't account for 2.5 trillion. But 9/11 happened the next day and the sheeple moved on to greener pastures.

I was actually surfing around youtube and there's a "banned" scene from Iraq for Sale. It is certainly worth a look. These soldiers were saying that truckloads of computers and what not charged to the American public were basically being ordered, received, and thrown in a firepit the same day at an enormous profit to the contractors. Also, soldiers were forced to do their laundry at one hundred dollar a load. Interesting movie, I must watch the whole thing at some point.

You can never have too many clever people.

Am I being sarcastic there?... I give up - I don't know any more

reply to post by St Udio

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I just need to ask if you've read the whole thread, because much of this money is due to private contractors overbilling, and also due to the "cost plus" system which is in operation.

Like KBR charging for (example) 25,000 meals served when only 12,000 meals were served - and then there is the 25% (or so) "profit" on top.

So not only are they charging for things twice, they are being given the cost plus profit for an expense they haven't incurred.

I saw both of those, the movie and the YouTube clip. If I remember correctly, the clip wasn't 'banned' material, it was various excerpts from the documentary. The trashing of equipment was not documented other than by anecdotal accounts, but was very convincing example of what can happen with 'cost-plus' contracts -- companies are reimbursed for all expenses, plus a percentage of those expenses, so the incentive is to have as many expenses as possible.

For example, one soldier told of a $80,000 truck, brand new, that simply blew a tire in what he considered a relatively safe stretch of road. Rather than fixing the tire, the contractor just requested troops to go out and blow it up. No loss -- simply order a new truck and charge for that, too -- extra profit!

What is more sickening, not that it was done, the fact the US actively covers it up. That alone says A LOT about it.




[edit on 11-6-2008 by mOOmOO]

Iraq for sale=great movie if you havn't seen it make it a top priority.

I got a slightly riled up last night when reading about this, on another (closed) thread of the same subject. I've had time to calm down a little (which, really, doesn't take me very long), and I've now decided to just post my tiny rant again, verbatim, here, something I normally wouldn't do, without at least rephrasing or modification of the particulars, but the subject matter begs stoic repetition:

I am continually astounded by the consistency of corruption exposed in the workings of the military industrial complex. It's depressing -- this story didn't surprise me at all, I believe we've heard echoes of these types of kickbacks, in past reporting, many times, and this comes as no surprise.

The only thing I found interesting was that they actually cited the number of cases in US court that are unable to go forward, because of this 'gag order'. Of course, this doesn't seem to get mentioned in the mainstream press. Why? And documentaries about corruption are brushed off, because it's deemed there's nothing 'newsworthy' about eyewitness accounts, leaked documents, circumstantial evidence, and patterns of maleficence -- there's no legal conclusions to make the stories definitive. So they're dismissable. Frankly, it's an abominable Catch-22.

This type of corruption is a tremendous stain on the honor of the United States. It insults and undermines the men and women who would selflessly serve the public. Shameful.

And I'd be willing to bet that this paltry $23bn is simply the tip of the iceberg. More and more, it seem the 'Bush Doctrine' is to replace whatever remained of the independent economy of the United State with a government-colluding military/security complex, bolstered by a state of perpetual aggression, threat, and chaos in the world. They seem to think it's not wrong, illegal, and immoral, unless there's conclusive proof, consequence, and a 'controlling legal authority' -- and undermining any of those is fair game.

I almost didn't want to comment on this article, if you can believe, because of the endemic and systematic scope of these outrages. So I pipe up here -- what about the other hundreds of threads from the past year that this comment could be applied to? Or the ones coming in the future? Will I continue reposting, rephrasing, and objecting? The saturation technique of evoking outrage seems to be designed to desensitize.

I will not be desensitized.

In "Iraq For Sale" there is a scene where one of the truck drivers talks about dying for your country, honor, etc. That hits the nail on the head so to speak and if people cannot see whats going on they must be blind.

What's still amazes me is that you hear absolutely nothing anymore about the voting scandal involving how bush got to be president.

On another note I just watched NOVA the other night which had a lot to say about the bush admin.-Rumsfeld, Rice, Powell, et al. One epiphany I had while watching it was the correlation between the personalities that were portrayed and the current state of affairs revolving around Iraq. After viewing both films there is no doubt in my mind that the class differences, mentalities/priorities of the administration are vulgarly different than the majority of the American people.IMHO

I believe that was the driver that said they were told to drive empty trucks through dangerous areas just so they can charge for the trip? Unbelievable.

Yes, that was the scene (sorry temp. memory loss). With all due respect to those that have lost their lives in battle, the thing is that a lot of the older generation i.e. veterans which account for the majority of voters simply do not want to believe that the country they fought for would allow these things to happen, a denial of sorts about the terrorism under the guise of greed that has been injected into our top officials. I forgot who said the famous words "Divide and Conquer" but they still ring true today.

LOL, I wonder if anyone in congress likes tomatoes.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS

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It is a drop in the bucket... I just love how the section of the pentagon where the "plane" crashed into was investigating that missing money... Another coincidence.... ya right!

The programme is now running on the bbc iplayer, here
Enjoy!

A small addition for those who mention it's "a drop in the ocean"

23 billion is a LOT of money - if you had it, and then didn't, I'm pretty sure the difference would be very marked

Is there a link to view the program for those of us who do not live in the UK?

I didn't bother to watch the prog. being already familiar with much of it and not wanting to get all riled up - but I was half tempted to see how strong the BBC would go on it.

Over the last few weeks they've run dozens of similarly damning reports mostly on radio, several on TV. I put this down to a renewed courage in light of a perceived change in political climate.

They still have an embargo on any truthful reporting of 9/11, but when you add up all the crimes they have revealed, you're forced to ask would anything now cause the American people to rise up against their rulers and depose them?

Certainly those few billion are just the tip of a very large iceberg. A "debunker" on one of these threads argued the $2.3 Trillion the pentagon "lost" wasn't lost, it was just unaccounted for, which is not the same thing at all. He was absolutely right. Of course it's not lost - as in fallen down the back of the sofa. It is all purposefully spent - we're just not supposed to know how.

I often argue that America (and probably Britain too) is a corporatist plutocracy that merely maintains an illusion of democracy. Am I engaging in hyperbole or is this not the hard fact of the matter? Is it not amply apparent now that there is no effective political or legal redress? The government, judiciary and media have become largely organs of the money elite.

Until this really sinks in - until people recognise that their so-called representatives have become their rulers, people will keep waiting and hoping that everything can be fixed by due process and democratic means.

Kucinich's articles of impeachment are read into the record, nobody denies the catalogue of high crimes and misdemeanours but the House of Representatives turn their back on it all, representing neither justice nor the will of the people.

Yep

Ripping off Americans is probably the only thing that the 2 party U.S. government ever gets done.

Nothing like bipartisan support for corruption.

I wish I could say that the BBC wasn't corrupt.

Obviously the US will spend that much money, considering Dick Cheney was Chief exec. Officer for Halliburton. Halliburton is getting paid $100 to wash one bag of clothes. The soldiers hated the feeling of their clothes when they were given back, and when they wanted to wash them their higher ups told them they can not. Halliburton is cutting corners. Do the research. A person working for Halliburton was responsible for the "clean" water for your troops yet it contained no chlorine to disinfect it.

Not many people hear about this. You also have Blackwater who are getting paid more then your soldiers to do the same job. They are trained by your soldiers but then they sit back and give orders. Then you have CACI who are interrogators for the army. They are overly paid as well.

I watched a movie which had first hand knowledge of what was happening.

I suggest you all watch it!

It is called "Iraq for Sale: The War Profiteers", great documentary.

LINK

Find out who really is getting paid the big bucks!