Matthew 24 verse 29

reply to post by uknow_me72


People who say sin=murder make me nervous.
Why do you even think about that?
That is not reassuring to me.
Satanists will say the same thing.
I do not think people who are asleep in sin are going to wake up.
Sinners may wake up to see their judgment, but they are not going to wake up to find salvation.
The ones who will find salvation are the ones who have been awake all along but have just not known exactly how to find it, yet.

reply to post by uknow_me72

Drinking and Drugs are different they were created by Evil to cloud your judgement and to let the minons do work.

There is no prohibition in the Bible to drink alcohol or use drugs for reasonable recreation.

I say reasonable because if one becomes a "drunkard", that is ALWAYS condemned.

A 'drunkard' is simply one who is constantly and consistently unavailable to be of any moral or direct help to people (ANYONE) all the time because of his consistent drunkard state.

reply to post by jmdewey60

People who say sin=murder make me nervous.

While I'm not sure what uknow_me72 meant by what he/she said, the Bible does say:

James 2:10-11 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

So, the Bible does, indeed, say:
Sin is the transgression of the law and if one transgresses the law, one is guilty of ALL. (Yep...that means 'murder'.)

reply to post by uknow_me72

Jesus said MANY ARE CALLED BUT A FEW ARE CHOSEN.

He is calling you. What are you going to do?

There is nothing one CAN do

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

reply to post by PreTribGuy


OK, so why are you telling me?
I do not have a problem with that.(what you said)
I do have a problem with people who say that something short of murder is probably not a sin.
To me, it sounds like what you would hear, just before you get stabbed in the back.

reply to post by jmdewey60

I do have a problem with people who say that something short of murder is probably not a sin.

I apologize. I didn't read his/her post in that way. I read it differently.

I forgot to mention this before,
The Rapture is not what you think.

In simple english,
It say there will be 2 people one be there and one will be taken.

The one that is taken is the one that dies, the do not mysteriously dissappears. They are hit by the plague that killed the Egyptians.

The one that is left has found the Truth and choose their side.

You have less then 4 1/2 years to find the Truth, not what you think is the Truth or because you think everyone has different Truths.

Everyone has different Truths because they do not know who they are. YOu must find your Truth in that sense, yes it make sense.

But the bigger Truth is the same for everyone and that is the game that is being played.

Find your way out of the Darkness.

Those of you willing to read through some scriptural research should visit my thread on the "Truth abou the Rapture" because it gives the details on why a pre-trib rapture is a false teaching. I'll link it in a minute.

Here is the link to my thread, "The Truth Behind the Rapture." Pretribguy and jmdewey have contributed to both sides of the argument. Let's get some more discussion in on that thread.

www.belowtopsecret.com...

I kind of want to give PreTribGuy a little space for him to do his thing, on that other thread.
I do not feel inclined to beat him down over it.
Just talking about the rapture is better than not talking about it, even if the details of it seem to me to be not exactly correct.
If he wants to attack my stand on it, he can come on this thread, otherwise I will let it go, for now.
That probably sounds pathetic and weak.
Sorry.
I have my own beliefs because that is the way I was taught.
PreTribGuy was probably taught to understand it in another way.
There are some verses that seem odd to me and could have been in the form of parables.
Some things are just too difficult to nail down, perfectly.
Rapture, Yes!
How it works, God only knows.
I can tell you what makes sense to me but I can not give you a 100% guarantee.
Megalomaniacs can do that sort of thing, but I do not trust them.
Otherwise I would have been living at Mt. Carmel with David Koresh.
David was able to speculate about these things because our religion allows that sort of thing.
We do not make members adhere to a certain creed other than God provided for us a way of salvation, through Jesus, Christ.
A lot of our stance on Revelation is, "We do not know, exactly, but we can sort of figure it out by pointing out how some prophesy has been fulfilled, already.
From there we can get a better idea of how future events may unfold.
We are gaining more knowledge and understanding about these things as they progress."
We do believe that there is a time of Jacob's trouble, where we will not be sure of the outcome.
It is part of the testing of God's elect and no one living at that time will be exempt.
Seeing as how we do not know when the final judgment will come, we are encouraged to live a sinless life by following the ten commandments, including the seventh day Sabbath.

[edit on 13-6-2008 by jmdewey60]

reply to post by jmdewey60


AMEN to that. 7th day is still on saturday and last time I checked, Jesus never told us to stop worshipping on that day or to start worshipping on the 1st day. That is another thing pretribguy will argue about. People speculate too much on a pre-trib rapture and the truth is there is no pre-calling to the sky before Christ returns. All evidence points to post-tribulation and the fact that a scripture from some guy no one ever heard of 300+ years after Christ was hung on the cross telling us that the rapture is pre-tribulation should raise a red flag. The early church didn't teach this, neither did Christ. 1500 years later Charles Darby re-emerges the pre-trib Rapture hype and now in the 20th and 21st centuries Tim Lahaye creates books and movies like "Left Behind" which are entertaining to say the least but false in christain concept... it is a fictional story after all.

reply to post by Locoman8


I would hope that people would take these "Left Behind" items as a launching point to do their own investigation into the end times.
But I am afraid that too many people are just looking for a comfortabe place to rest and leave it at that.

reply to post by jmdewey60

I would hope that people would take these "Left Behind" items as a launching point to do their own investigation into the end times.

I've never seen any of the movies or read any of the books he (LaHaye) wrote in the series.
Maybe someday I'll watch one of the movies, but it has been my experience that many "Christian" movies leave much to be desired. The acting is usually awful, and the dialogue is tedious. In some ways, they are worse than sitting through a "B" movie because these movies are usually BORING, at best, and heretical at worst.

Perhaps God 'designed it' that way?

It is also curious to me that no-one (it seems) can write a decent song/melody to any of the Psalms! In my case, U2's "40" is about as close as it has gotten, but even then, he only uses a couple of verses, rather than the whole 40th chapter of Psalms. I also REALLY like "The Lord's Prayer".

But these seem to be anomalies rather than the standard.

Some CAN write songs that use a couple of verses, but they aren't the complete context.

It is almost like God designed the Bible to be either "read" or "spoken". Anything else seems (to me) to fail (miserably).

For a "fun" movie, I just got/bought the "Indiana Jones" trilogy and we (my wife and two daughters) watched the first episode last night. (Yes, my wife and I had seen the originals...but my daughters, 8 and 5, had never seen them.)

The girls also like the "Die Hard" trilogy as well as "Star Wars" and "Terminator". I guess we all like the same movies. (Good triumphs over EVIL...in a THRILLING WAY!)

I refuse to allow religion to become "boring" for my kids. They were (sorta) bored with "The Witch, the Lion and the Wardrobe" movie.

I remember a movie I took my 8-year-old to about 3 years ago. (She was 5). It was called "Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow". She REALLY liked that movie.

Shortly after we attended that movie, she told her mom and I that she had a dream about "Sky Captain". And it went something like this:

"Sky Captain was really nice to me. He did really nice things for me. I liked Sky Captain. But then Sky Captain told me he had to go away for awhile. I was sad. But then he promised me that he would come back to me. And I was happy!"

I couldn't help but notice how it seemed like "Sky Captain" was like Jesus. It was actually quite profound.

(I apologize if this is "off subject/topic")

reply to post by PreTribGuy


Well, I'm telling you that the Left Behind movies are not boring at all. I enjoyed them. There are 3 movies and a mess-load of books but the concept starts with Jerusalem being attacked but the hand of God stops the bombs from falling. Then, out of the blue, a mess of people just vanish creating mayhem and chaos. A few realize what has just happened and get together to create the tribulation force. It's neat. Part 3 revolves around the World at War which is caused by Nicholae, which is the anti-christ. Also the movie trilogies you mentioned are some of my alltime favorites too. Indiana Jones is timeless and the first and third revolve around the Ark of the Covenant and the Holy Grail. Good post, even if off topic but I recommend the Left Behind movies, especially if you are a pre-trib guy as your name states. You know I don't believe in pre-trib rapture but it's still entertaining and if it did happen, the movies/books may give good insight on the way things would pan out for the rest of us left behind. The movie titles are as follows:

Left Behind
Left Behind 2: Tribulation Force
Left Behind: World at War

Your kids would enjoy them too. Peace out friend!

In my last post, I was trying to think of something good to say about these movies.
What I feel about them is disgust.
Just as history is about to unfold, all the Christians go to Heaven.
I guess we do not have anything to contribute.
Also we do not have to worry about the consequences of things now developing.
So, as things go into a slide into evil and chaos, we should sit back and cheer it on.
It is only an indicator of our imminent rapture.
We do not actually have to get off our butts and do anything about what is happening all around us.
It is the doctrine of the devil to promote apathy.

reply to post by jmdewey60


I understand your disgust but it's just a couple of movies and they are no worse than a movie with violence and killing in it. These movies and books just reveal a certain viewpoint in the christian world. A viewpoint I don't share but don't throw a fit about. It's still a good vs. evil concept. Just like die hard christians who don't want their kids watching or reading Harry Potter. It's a fictional story and that's all it is. I feel more disgust with video games like Grand Theft Auto because younger kids play these games and instead of a "good vs. evil" theme it's an "evil vs. evil" theme. It promotes violence and crime. This is why I enjoy the Nintendo Wii. Because it's a family-friendly system. Find a better thing to be disgusted at because there are worse things than a fictional movie/book promoting good vs. evil.

If all the "Left Behind" products were only a reflection of a belief that already existed, why was it necessary to make them?
My guess would be that these products were made to spread the belief around to people who were not already convinced of it.
My disgust comes from the affect that these products have on the Christian community.
It gives people a detachment from events around them because it takes away their motivation to do anything about it.
Why get involved when they are about to get raptured any minute,

reply to post by jmdewey60


I understand what you're saying and all I can say as far as that goes is that I hope people can do a little research and homework to discover the truth about the rapture. People need to realize that "Left Behind" is a fictional story. None of it is true. It just makes for a good story.

This is a really good thread and I'm enjoying reading all the comments in it.

I used to believe in a pre-trib rapture but not anymore. But it's nothing that should divide any of us. We have to learn from one another and be patient with one another because no one person has all the answers.

I think before we can even begin to understand being "caught up" to be with the Lord, we have to understand who the elect are, what their trials will be and why they have been chosen. Then we'll have a better understading of the deeper mysteries involved in Christianity.

Many are called and a few are chosen.

We are not Elite or greater then any of the other non-chosen ones. We just had a different reason for being here. We have learned to listen to God and let him lead us to do his work through us.

He will guide you, and he will give you prosperity if you can learn to listen. God is always talking but no one is listening.