Masons not a secret society

I recently met with someone who is a christian and has read alot about the different lodges. I asked him what he thinks of it and he said that they are not of God and i should stay away from them. I guess i really need to ask him some more question because he seems to know alot.

Ely, you just want to insist that the Masons are a bunch of scoundrels. Why would this person you know, you claims to be "of God" be believed?
Time and again the Masons here have reported that they are indeed Christian and that the requirement for Masonry is a belief in a Supreme Being.
And, why ask the question, if you are then going to go and ignore the answer.

What's your angle, ELY????? Have you given up on the other threads you have starrted?

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by ELY
...i would like to know if all Christians are against freemasonry and does anyone know why?

No. Most members of our fraternity are Christians, ...

[Edited on 5-6-2004 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by ELY
they (masons) are not of God and i should stay away from them. I guess i really need to ask him some more question because he seems to know alot.

If one believes in a supreme being and that the supreme being is the creator of all then everything is "of God" so this is a rather contradictory statement. Define for me what "of god is", better yet ask your friend and then share with us his answer.

You can only learn so much from the outside looking in.

Originally posted by infinite your right in some parts but Freemasonry does contain "hush,hush" areas. You try asking any mason at any level about what happens in meetings, rituals etc they will tell you its a secret! Freemasonry has this nice, peaceful, public face but deep down its far from that.

In this day and age, there is little secret left to the ritual and ceremony involved in a masonic lodge. You can do a Google search, and there are sites which detail in some accuracy the degree work of the Blue Lodge, and some of the York and Scottish Rites. There is a book which has been around for many years authored by Malcolm C. Duncan titled "Duncan's Ritual of Freemasonry" it is probably one of the most quoted books besides Albert Pike's "Morals and Dogma" regarding Freemasonry. Duncan's book is not entirely accurate, but it should satisfy your curiosity.
Deep Down, the lodge meetings are little more than a bunch of men getting together to socialize and plan their charitable fundraisers. No secretive plans to rule the world.
There may be groups unrelated to Masonry which claim Masonic origins, or whose members are Masons, but these are not sanctioned by the Grand Lodge.
It would be likened to equate all Americans with the Klu Klux Clan just because all Clan members are American.

Originally posted by InterceptorKnight
Deep Down, the lodge meetings are little more than a bunch of men getting together to socialize and plan their charitable fundraisers.

I disagree with this... let's not be in a hurry to emasculate ourselves. Freemasonry is not simply a service / social club, Freemasonry is a Fraternity dedicated to the improvement of the individual and of all humankind, and to the Brotherhood of Humanity under the Fatherhood of God (sorry about the sexist pronouns... I hope you understand my meaning; Siblinghood of Humanity under the Parenthood of God might be better). I don't think it profits us anything to defend ourselves by claiming to be tepid and weak. We are a strong and vital Fraternity, it's simply the case that our strength is in goodness, not in anything sinister.

Originally posted by infinite

Originally posted by Bangin

It's been my understanding that only white men can become masons, especially the 'men' part. I thought that I wasn't eligible because I'm female.

It's funny you made this thread because I was just thinking about it while visiting the bank. There was a vehicle in front of mine that had a bumper sticker. The sticker read, "Freemasonry helps build America". There were a number of other stickers with masonic symbols.

only white male can join, every heard the term "a group of white men rule the world" its likely to be true. You have to be "invited" by a mason so you can join cause the masons come for you not you go to them. Freemason didn't build America they ARE America

[Edited on 2-3-2004 by infinite]

Nonsense. The organization for you are the Eastern Stars sister group to the Masons. Men can become Eastern Stars too but women can not become Masons. And ALL AMEN CAN BECOME MASONS. Only the European Masons receive the true third degree. This is because Asiatic members already contain the essence of the third degree in their DNA. They would need a special ritual in a lodge to obtain this symbolically.

Originally posted by MOOR45
Only the European Masons receive the true third degree. This is because Asiatic members already contain the essence of the third degree in their DNA. They would need a special ritual in a lodge to obtain this symbolically.

Huh? I was with you up until you started talking foolishness there. Every Mason gets the same third degree (except for differences in Rite).

Bro. Lee, who is a grand Steward in our GL up here (and, coincidentally, happens to be of Chinese ancestry) would be surprised to hear you say that.

I have no adequate response to this, other than to say it is completely wrong.

Originally posted by MOOR45
Only the European Masons receive the true third degree. This is because Asiatic members already contain the essence of the third degree in their DNA. They would need a special ritual in a lodge to obtain this symbolically.

WTF, over? Are you smoking crack? How can one "contain the essence of the third degree" in their DNA? I'm sure we would all love to hear the explanation for that statement, if for no other reason than sheer humor. Please... Enlighten us...


Sorry about the crack comment, I don't mean to be antagonistic, that just sounds really absurd to me.

[edit on 6/17/04 by The Axeman]

completely agree with you. it can't be held as a secret society. its just a load of middle class men who are proud to be part of an 'elite' club.
however a 'club' that interests me is the bohemian grove club. it seems to be pretty much forgotten since a covert documentary aired (in england) on channel 4 a few years ago. (for the video and info on the program www.infowars.com... ) im not so sure i believe in all the occult aspect of it...that is the rituals etc. considering many of the 'global elite' are religious etc (well thats what they claim to win the minds of many). anyway....the fact that many powerful leaders meet in such an odd way is pretty #ing scary, like a governing body that has immense power over the world.
for the skeptics: hoaxinfo.com...
...so what lefties are more inclined to believe in it. there must be some truth to all this due to the amount of evidence...and i dont mean dodgey photos.
for those of you who like a sensationalist approach (although some good backing up facts it must be said in this article) : www....-------------------------/library/conspiracy/bohemian-grove/
so yeh, i find this 'posse of o powerful' quite interesting and seemingly dangerous

Originally posted by AlexKennedy

Originally posted by MOOR45
Only the European Masons receive the true third degree. This is because Asiatic members already contain the essence of the third degree in their DNA. They would need a special ritual in a lodge to obtain this symbolically.

Huh? I was with you up until you started talking foolishness there. Every Mason gets the same third degree (except for differences in Rite).

Bro. Lee, who is a grand Steward in our GL up here (and, coincidentally, happens to be of Chinese ancestry) would be surprised to hear you say that.

I have no adequate response to this, other than to say it is completely wrong.

Slow down. Don't knock me until you know for sure. This has been confirmed by several Mason of degrees which extend even beyond what the average person believes exists. Certain Scottish Rite and York masons, who I will not reveal asked my mentor for this degree about 3-4 years ago. He was almost killed because there was a individual who wanted it for himself to misuse it's purpose. I kid you not and I am not making good fiction. As we travel in life knowledge unravels, so please keep and open mind. You may not be of a certain degree in which you were given this knowledge. There are terms I will print here that at one time was used to distinguisg members of color from European masons. I will get it from my collection.

Originally posted by The Axeman

Originally posted by MOOR45
Only the European Masons receive the true third degree. This is because Asiatic members already contain the essence of the third degree in their DNA. They would need a special ritual in a lodge to obtain this symbolically.

WTF, over? Are you smoking crack? How can one "contain the essence of the third degree" in their DNA? I'm sure we would all love to hear the explanation for that statement, if for no other reason than sheer humor. Please... Enlighten us...
It would sound absurd to individual who only look at the third degree of Masonry as symbolic or ritualistic. There is a reason the rituals are carried out that way. The third degree represents the history of a lost ancient people represented by Hiram Abiff (and alot more). It also represents the awakening of the mind which is also known as the Third eye and a key chakra. Once you learn the history behind the rituals and key figures of these initiations, you will understand. But by no means think for a second that a true master stops learning. None of us on this board 33rd + or - is complete. That is the key to the temple of Solomon or Son of Man. Man is the temple. To try to obtain perfection of man through science (knowledge). As far as this third degree which you dispute so much, you need to read alot more on your history. It will open you mind alot more. I can suggest some if you like. However, many of you who claim to be "Masters" are fooling ourself to think that just by reaching a few degrees you can tell someone they are crazy. A true master should keep and open ear, mind, and spirit. How well do you know yourself?


Sorry about the crack comment, I don't mean to be antagonistic, that just sounds really absurd to me.

[edit on 6/17/04 by The Axeman]

Originally posted by MOOR45
As far as this third degree which you dispute so much, you need to read alot more on your history. It will open you mind alot more. I can suggest some if you like. However, many of you who claim to be "Masters" are fooling ourself to think that just by reaching a few degrees you can tell someone they are crazy. A true master should keep and open ear, mind, and spirit. How well do you know yourself?

First of all I am not disputing the 3rd degree or any other for that matter. I am a non-Mason, though I am contemplating joining, so I am admittedly ignorant to the degrees ad what they represent. As such I really can't argue the subject with anyone. I just wanted you to clarify what you were saying because the way you said it didn't make a whole lot of sense.

[edit on 6/17/04 by The Axeman]

You know, this is just another of the lame arguments... there are NO higher degrees than that of Master Mason. There are OTHER degrees, to be sure, but nothing nefarious involved. These OTHER degrees only explain further or highlight additional information relating to the first three degrees.

So, your master told you that someone told HIM, that... you know, that's not even called hearsay... that is the start of an urban legend... I mean, I know a guy that says he knows a guy that swears he saw Elvis in a gas station in Texas... same credibility.

Originally posted by AlexKennedy

Originally posted by InterceptorKnight
Deep Down, the lodge meetings are little more than a bunch of men getting together to socialize and plan their charitable fundraisers.

I disagree with this... let's not be in a hurry to emasculate ourselves. Freemasonry is not simply a service / social club, Freemasonry is a Fraternity dedicated to the improvement of the individual and of all humankind, and to the Brotherhood of Humanity under the Fatherhood of God (sorry about the sexist pronouns... I hope you understand my meaning; Siblinghood of Humanity under the Parenthood of God might be better). I don't think it profits us anything to defend ourselves by claiming to be tepid and weak. We are a strong and vital Fraternity, it's simply the case that our strength is in goodness, not in anything sinister.

Thus far, I have failed to see this concept truly in practice. Beyond being a charitable organization for the local community, I struggle to see any higher purpose. The Parenthood of God concept also has little to do with the actions also. The Blue Lodge deliberately treats God in a vague manor, recognizing he exists, paying some respect, but when God is denegrated to the "Great Architect" I do not see how he plays an active role in the direction of the lodge.
I was very pleased when I advanced to Knight Templar that Jesus Christ was recognized.

Originally posted by theron dunn
I mean, I know a guy that says he knows a guy that swears he saw Elvis in a gas station in Texas... same credibility.

That is OLD NEWS.... He worked for the Texaco on North and Pasedena Blvd. But, he has quite due to the rumor going out. I heard he was in Las Vegas actually pretending to be an Elvis Impersonator.

Originally posted by MOOR45
This has been confirmed by several Mason of degrees which extend even beyond what the average person believes exists.

And there�s the problem.
If someone claims to be of a degree that no one knows exists, you can bet the farm they�re running a scam. The only real Masonic Degrees are those listed on the books of recognized Masonic organizations. Any others are fake, ipso facto. Throughout history, there have been a large number of fake �Masonic� degrees peddled, and this continues today.
European Masons are not exclusively in possession of the �true Third Degree�. The Third Degree was added to Freemasonry in the early 1720�s. Before that, the only Masonic degrees were Apprentice and Journeyman (whose official name was later changed to Fellow Craft).
The modern Third Degree seems to have been instituted by Desaguilers and Anderson, and revised by Webb and Cross. All Grand Lodges in the US and UK use the Webb-based Third Degree. Grand Lodges in non-English-speaking country work the Scottish Rite version of the Third Degree, which is based on the Webb/Cross model.

Fiat Lvx.

Originally posted by InterceptorKnight
when God is denegrated to the "Great Architect" I do not see how he plays an active role in the direction of the lodge.

"Denegrated"?
How does calling God the Great Architect denigrate him?
An architect lays down the blueprint. He is where the buck stops. He is numero uno on any job. Without the architect's plan's there can be nothing. He is the main man.

Get my drift?

Originally posted by theron dunn
You know, this is just another of the lame arguments... there are NO higher degrees than that of Master Mason. There are OTHER degrees, to be sure, but nothing nefarious involved. These OTHER degrees only explain further or highlight additional information relating to the first three degrees.

So, your master told you that someone told HIM, that... you know, that's not even called hearsay... that is the start of an urban legend... I mean, I know a guy that says he knows a guy that swears he saw Elvis in a gas station in Texas... same credibility.

Your statement is not logical. The third degree is the highest degree you can obtain correct? If that is the case why the other 30 degrees just for explaination? Why when the floor is open on say the 15th a 3rd degree is nowhere to be found? Let's be real. Why go through 30 more degrees to explain the first 3?! Surely you jest! There are degrees to obtain beyond while I will agree the 3rd as explained to me is the most important. As for the story which you Dave Chappelled so well, every story has a teller. The actual evidence of what I was talking about I saw myself. I also saw the letter your brothers wrote requesting this particular document. Come on.

Originally posted by The Axeman

Originally posted by MOOR45
As far as this third degree which you dispute so much, you need to read alot more on your history. It will open you mind alot more. I can suggest some if you like. However, many of you who claim to be "Masters" are fooling ourself to think that just by reaching a few degrees you can tell someone they are crazy. A true master should keep and open ear, mind, and spirit. How well do you know yourself?

First of all I am not disputing the 3rd degree or any other for that matter. I am a non-Mason, though I am contemplating joining, so I am admittedly ignorant to the degrees ad what they represent. As such I really can't argue the subject with anyone. I just wanted you to clarify what you were saying because the way you said it didn't make a whole lot of sense.


[edit on 6/17/04 by The Axeman]

Well if you say you are ignorant to the degrees how can you say somebody is on crack? That makes no sense. I'm not a Mason but am in a different circle but work with Mason to acheive many good things that I hope we will see in our lifetime.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by MOOR45
This has been confirmed by several Mason of degrees which extend even beyond what the average person believes exists.

And there�s the problem.
If someone claims to be of a degree that no one knows exists, you can bet the farm they�re running a scam. The only real Masonic Degrees are those listed on the books of recognized Masonic organizations. Any others are fake, ipso facto. Throughout history, there have been a large number of fake �Masonic� degrees peddled, and this continues today.
European Masons are not exclusively in possession of the �true Third Degree�. The Third Degree was added to Freemasonry in the early 1720�s. Before that, the only Masonic degrees were Apprentice and Journeyman (whose official name was later changed to Fellow Craft).
The modern Third Degree seems to have been instituted by Desaguilers and Anderson, and revised by Webb and Cross. All Grand Lodges in the US and UK use the Webb-based Third Degree. Grand Lodges in non-English-speaking country work the Scottish Rite version of the Third Degree, which is based on the Webb/Cross model.

Fiat Lvx.

Dear Sir, you can not say no one knows about it if it has been confirmed on more than one occasion Masons verbally. Don't ask me why but this is the case. I met a well know Mason in NYC who sells Masonic supplies. While buyin a Fez from him he tels me a man came in and bragged about being a 33rd. He pulls out a card and says I'm 360! This was very funny to me if you understand what he was trying to tell this fellow brother. There are 360 in a circle of completion. Why stop at 33?! Also Masonry existed far before the 18th century. Maybe modern freemasonry recently added that degree ( I am familiar with that history) but it is by no means new. Are you familiar with the Anakasi Indians who archaeologist have found evidence of lodges right here in North and South America dated thousands of years ago?

[edit on 6/17/2004 by MOOR45]