Masons not a secret society

I read the other day on a Masonic homepage that after you become a master Mason then you are elligible for the york Rite, The scottish Rite or the Knights Templar. I was seriously thinking about joining until I saw an old shriner heading out to his post at a red light the other day to collect some donations. I respect the good works they do, I just don't have a lot of spare time.


Tamahu I noticed on the Memphis Misraim site that you have to have been accepted by the lodge to go that route at the point of going under the blindfold.

Tamahu, yes I did read the links.
One interesting point to note is that the Memphis Rite is part of the Ancient and Primitive order of "freemasons".
If you check on their entry requirements you will see that they are a Christian organisation who require a candidate to believe in Jesus Christ.

Regular freemasonry bars no man because of religion. All it requires is that you hold a belief in a superior being.

Leveller and Tgsoe

You must have been accepted by the Lodge at the time of your �going under the blindfold�

Does this not imply that one would have to have already been an initiate of regular FreeMasonry to join Memphis-Misraim? If so; there go's your assertion that it has "nothing to do with FreeMasonry".

A spiritualistic and deist orientation,

A vocation to preserve and to transmit the philosophical reflection on symbols of Ancient Egypt and the different currents that have marked our civilization (Hermetic, Gnostic, Kabbalistic, Templar and Rose+Croix)

An open and reflective search for a better understanding of oneself and of humanity.

Yeah that sounds real "Christian" ; or am I to assume that "Christian" is a very open ended term that encompasses many "belief" systems according to Masons?

And regardless of all that; nowhere did I see that one has to be "Christian" to join.

All I saw was this:

You must express a belief in a Supreme Being

TgSoe said:
I was seriously thinking about joining until I saw an old shriner heading out to his post at a red light the other day to collect some donations. I respect the good works they do, I just don't have a lot of spare time.

What? lol! So you don't want to join just because you found out that you might have to put in a little community service?




Peace



[Edited on 9-3-2004 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by Tamahu
Leveller and Tgsoe

You must have been accepted by the Lodge at the time of your ?going under the blindfold?

Does this not imply that one would have to have already been an initiate of regular FreeMasonry to join Memphis-Misraim? And regardless of all that; nowhere did I see that one has to be "Christian" to join.

I think they're talking about being accepted by their own lodges.
As for the Christian assertion?

www.cabinda.net...

"To become a member of the Ancient and Primitive Order of Freemasons, which has today members all over the globe, one must be sponsored by two members of the Order. Those seeking admission must profess to the Christian faith (or have a firm believe in Jesus the Christ), have reached the age of 24 and be known to have stability in his daily life."


Just because they call themselves regular masons doesn't mean to say that they are linked to UGLE.

Masonic Ritual Turns Deadly;

A bit of insite into the close-kept secrets of Masonic rituals may be made public soon in an unavoidable trial. A man has been charged with shooting another man in the face during a Masonic ritual when the gun used in the ritual (which should have been loaded with blanks) fired, shooting the second man in the face.

www.kfor.com...

so leveller, are the bullets also just symbolic?

My answer to that is "Only in America".

Those guys weren't taking part in a recognised masonic ritual. I have to admit that I'm not sympathetic to them at all.

I personally know many Shriners, as well as lower degree masons, and from what I have been able to ascertain from them, the society definitely is secretive about things. I've been to their meeting places and temples and to me they seem quite strange. On the outside it seems like a fraternity, but under all that, many claim there is much more. One thing I can tell you, is once you become a high degree Mason, you are taken care of for life. Personally I don't know what the highest degree Masons are up to, they don't speak anything of the matter, but the lower masons have nothing really to hide. For many people, the problem with the Masons is the fact that a person does not have to be a Christian to join, they merely have to believe in the "architect of the universe" or something like that. So with out any set interpretation to what that being is, a person who is a Christian can join, where also a person who worships Satan or the pagan gods is also accepted. For many people, this is a major warning about the society in that they think it leaves the door open for black cults, witchcraft, and other heresy. Now I admit, I am not a Mason, so I can't claim to know exactly what they really are, or what they stand for, but the information I have given you is what I have been able to find out through some research and talking with Masons. I believe it to be correct, however, like everything there may be some inaccuracies. Thanks for reading!

Originally posted by kildrin
I personally know many Shriners, as well as lower degree masons, and from what I have been able to ascertain from them, the society definitely is secretive about things.

Freemasonry no doubt appears secretive to outsiders, but I am a bit surprised that you, a Knight of Columbus, made this statement. Masonry is not in the least more secretive than KofC, or any other fraternity.

I've been to their meeting places and temples and to me they seem quite strange.

I realize that �strange� is relative, but I�m curious as to what you personally thought was strange about a Lodge. I�ve been to hundreds of various Lodges, and never saw anything that I personally would consider strange.

On the outside it seems like a fraternity, but under all that, many claim there is much more.

In case you are unaware, opponents of fraternal organizations make the same claims in regard to the KofC. They even repeat a bogus oath supposedly taken in the fourth degree of KofC, where the Knight of Columbus swears to rip open the stomachs of pregnant Protestant women, or something to that effect. Such things can only be taken with a grain of salt.

One thing I can tell you, is once you become a high degree Mason, you are taken care of for life.

I hold the 32� in the Scottish Rite of Masonry, am a Knight Templar in the York Rite, a Noble in the Shrine, Past Master of my Lodge, and am a Tall Cedar of Lebanon. Why isn�t anyone taking care of me?

Personally I don't know what the highest degree Masons are up to, they don't speak anything of the matter, but the lower masons have nothing really to hide.

On the contrary, so-called �highest degree Masons� have spent a lot of time and energy writing books and lecturing on the subject of Freemasonry. If anyone wants to know what �highest degree Masons are up to�, they need only visit their library, or go to our websites.

For many people, the problem with the Masons is the fact that a person does not have to be a Christian to join, they merely have to believe in the "architect of the universe" or something like that.

This, I think, is the real crux of the matter. Masonry challenges men to think for themselves, and when men actually begin to do this, they sometimes question the status quo in matters such as religion, politics, etc. This is why tyrants have deemed Masonry as subversive and dangerous, and have warred against her.
Yet the creed of our Fraternity is a simple one. There is One God who created all men to be Brethren, and it is our duty, while we continue our pilgrimage through this world, to try to take care of each other as God intended. As for other religious questions, we leave it to our members to decide for themselves, and encourage them to practice their religion outside of the Lodge. It is very possible for two men who are equally intelligent, kind, liberal, and philanthropic, to hold opposing opinions concerning religion. Since no one can actually prove that he or she is �right� about religion, and others �wrong�, Masonry holds that each individual has the right to his or her own religious beliefs, and that no one has the right to persecute others for opinion�s sake.
If this is �heresy�, I gladly and willingly proclaim myself a Heretic.

Fiat Lvx.

�The Church says that the earth is flat, but I know it is round; I have seen its shadow on the moon. And I have more faith in the Shadow than in the Church�. � Ferdinand Magellan

My Dear Masonic Light,

I have not the patience that you do. It seems easier, or perhaps more titillating for folks to sit in front of a keyboard and monitor and surmise. these surmises are most usually based on "he said/she said/Uncle Barnie said" material. There appears to be very few who are willing to think for themselves and attempt to find on their own, the truth. My hat's off to you, and I salute you.

It takes less energy to guess and originate or simply listen to other garbage, and then expound it as if it is true.

Seems to me that if you are sincerely interested in finding the truth and not simply mental masturbation, then it would be failry simple to join the Masons, participate and draw a conclusion based on your own experiences. Then you would know if they are demonic, use guns in their various "secret" goodies... Hate blacks, hate women, hate Jews, hate ... Keep large secrets, are taken care of for life in some mythical/mystical manner ....

If you aren't willing ot experience for yourself, and draw your own conclusions, how do y9ou suspect you would ever even be able to recognize the truth if it came up and bit you on your keester?

Originally posted by sigung86
Seems to me that if you are sincerely interested in finding the truth and not simply mental masturbation, then it would be failry simple to join the Masons, participate and draw a conclusion based on your own experiences. Then you would know if they are demonic, use guns in their various "secret" goodies... Hate blacks, hate women, hate Jews, hate ... Keep large secrets, are taken care of for life in some mythical/mystical manner ....

If you aren't willing ot experience for yourself, and draw your own conclusions, how do y9ou suspect you would ever even be able to recognize the truth if it came up and bit you on your keester?

Of course, experiencing it for yourself is only possible if you're male. So, tell me, what are women supposed to do? Take it on faith?

Maybe the whole possibility of being brainwashed by some weird bunch of neo-pagen loonies that are trying to economise humanity for the sake of the preserving the intelectual freedom af their grand pooh-bars would turn people off joining a group that doesn't clearly state it objectives to the public.
Didn't your mother tell you not to except gifts from strangers?
Would you just pick up something and stick it in your mouth to find out if it was food?
Why should any sane, rational person swear on oath to an organisation BEFORE they are told what the are swearing an oath to?

Originally posted by MrNECROS
Maybe the whole possibility of being brainwashed by some weird bunch of neo-pagen loonies that are trying to economise humanity for the sake of the preserving the intelectual freedom af their grand pooh-bars would turn people off joining a group that doesn't clearly state it objectives to the public.

Ah, finally. Now your true colours are shown.
For someone who has freemasonry watch in their signature, you're a fine one to talk about brainwashing - mindlessly ingesting and spouting trash from a website of incredibly dubious content.
"Preserving intellectual freedom". What a crime against humanity huh? By your comment one can gather that you would prefer us all to be drones and to toe the party line whatever it's failings. Sorry, but in layman's terms, you are promoting ignorance. Give me intellectual freedom over dogma any day.

Nobody is forced to join freemasonry. If you don't want to join then that's up to you. Claiming that all are unaware of what masonry entails is a pretty lame excuse for an argument too. There is plenty of information out there that tells you exactly what freemasons do and it's only through sheer laziness that ignorant postulations such as your are endorsed. Mind you, you seem to have an idea of the content of freemasonry - your claim of intellectual freedom is an example. So it can't be as secret as people like yourself expound if you actually do know what it's about, can it?

Use logic before launching into your next tirade of verbal diahorrea. Otherwise you just might find that you have contradicted yourself and your own argument has returned to bite you on your own ass - just as it has done here.

"Preserving intellectual freedom". What a crime against humanity huh? By your comment one can gather that you would prefer us all to be drones and to toe the party line whatever it's failings. Sorry, but in layman's terms, you are promoting ignorance. Give me intellectual freedom over dogma any day.

But that is really the whole point of the bizarre phenomenon which calls itself �anti-Masonry�. The Italian dictator Benito Mussolini once called Freemasonry the greatest danger to the Fascist State in existence, for those very reasons. The webmaster of Freemasonry Watch has readily admitted on numerous occasions that she is a pre-Vatican II Roman Catholic, although this wasn�t even necessary, as the website�s Jesuit propaganda is evident on practically every page.

Nobody is forced to join freemasonry. If you don't want to join then that's up to you.

Absolutely. However, �Mr. Necros� claims that he was coerced to join the fraternity, which we all know is a blatant falsehood. An individual of such questionable ethics, who will resort to inventing fictions to defame his opponents, would not be welcomed into the fraternity if he requested admission, much less coerced into doing so.

Necros� knowledge of Masonry is not grounded in reality. On other threads, he claims that the candidate for the 32� wears a suit of armor, that the Supreme Council controls the Third Degree, and that knowing two 32� is analogous to knowing two members of the British royal family (although there are over 1.5 million 32� Masons in the U.S alone; over half of the members of my Blue Lodge hold this degree). He also claims to have intimate knowledge of the Ritual, although he is not a Mason, and has simply assumed that what he�s read elsewhere is accurate, without having any way to verify it.
I suppose P.T. Barnum was right...there�s a sucker born every minute.

Fiat Lvx.

Originally posted by glee
Of course, experiencing it for yourself is only possible if you're male. So, tell me, what are women supposed to do? Take it on faith?

Yes, we seem to get the short end of the stick from all avenues. The Catholic Church said we didn't even have a soul until the 1500s. The Masons and KofC deny us membershup. Sure, I know the is a similar group for women in the Mason group, and the Daughters of Isabella.
Still and all, a couble standard.

Me thinks, way back when, men knew they had to belittle women bacuase women have some sort of innate power or knowledge over menkind?

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
...Me thinks, way back when, men knew they had to belittle women bacuase women have some sort of innate power or knowledge over menkind?

No, no, no! We men know you women are smarter then us, we just needed a place to be by ourselves and tell off color jokes. After all, when you ladies like to be alone you go together to the restroom

Originally posted by KingSolomon
No, no, no! We men know you women are smarter then us, we just needed a place to be by ourselves and tell off color jokes. After all, when you ladies like to be alone you go together to the restroom

LOL, hey, then why don't you do the same thing? You have the advantage of not having to talk through stall partitions, at least most of the time.

Originally posted by glee

Of course, experiencing it for yourself is only possible if you're male. So, tell me, what are women supposed to do? Take it on faith?

Actually, are allowed to join Eastern Star. If you could not find an Eastern Star lodge to join, then just go to a freemasons lodge and they will be more than happy to point you in the right direction. Many times masons do interact with the Eastern Star, the only thing is that Eastern Star members do not attend the lodge and masons do not attend their lodges. But, the philosophies are basically the same. If you wold like to read more about it, try these two sites.... www.oes-scotland.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk...
www.easternstar.org...

Thanks for the pointers, Jon. On the Eastern Star website, it says men and women can be members. Are you saying Masons are not allowed to become members of the Eastern Star, although other men can be?

Where I have been some Masons frown on the Order Of The Easter Star, some ignore it and some are part of it. It seems a matter of taste.

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
Where I have been some Masons frown on the Order Of The Easter Star, some ignore it and some are part of it. It seems a matter of taste.

This is about the size of it. Just depends, mostly I would say is that it is mainly women though. I personally have not met anyone that looked down on the Eastern Star. My father was a mason and my mother is in the Eastern Star. But, never heard of any discrimination either way. But, the teachings are very very close from what my mother has said. I have not joined the Eastern Star, but am a mason. but, here in japan, there is only one Eastern Star lodge and it is a 2 hour ride on the bullet train. So, no really a reality for me to check it out.