these are the spirits of demons, working miracles

Mar 13:22 for there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew signs and wonders, that they may lead astray, if possible, the elect.

Rev 13:14 And [the False Prophet] deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.


Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Did you know that demons can perform miracles?

When people see miracles, do they even stop to ask if it is from God or not?

Are weeping statues, that cry blood, are these from God? Or are they lying signs and wonders?


Despite having some knowledge of this, why will it be that the vast majority of mankind will be deceived by the False Prophet?

He will call the reporters, to stand before him, and film him while he calls down fire from heaven "in the sight of men".

Why should YOU fall for this? You shouldn't!

The "test" of a true prophet has NOTHING to do with the miraculous!

It has everything to do with what words come out of his mouth.

Is he leading you away from the true God? Is he leading you to "another Jesus"?

2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Beware of lying signs and wonders!




Rev 16:14 For they are spirits of demons, working miracles, which go forth to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that day, the great day of God Almighty.


[edit on 28-5-2008 by SirPaulMuaddib]

Some (minor) lying signs and wonders that people are mesmerized by

Google Video Link

First of all gt your facts strait son... Satan or demons cannot do miracles, they can creat an allusion to a miracle and they can do what's in nature... not super natural..

The crying statues, not all of them are fake... you have to read the message with them....

Many of the saints (including Christ) rose the dead... had the stigmata, cured blind people.... if you say they are false miracles then you can easliy say that about Christ just like the high priest said about him...

when god eneters a saint which has been the case for 2000 years in communion.... He enetrs the soul, teaches it true humility and they literally have Christ in them.. they can do the works that he did...


The reference about the false prophet miracle, firslt that comes from the KJV translation, a book which the original 1611 copy had pagan symbols all throuhgout it and 100s of errors.... this was because satan created the revolt...

secondly the reference was not to the saints of the past, but to the false prophet alone who will do signs in front of people even move mountains to try and fool their souls into accepting the mark...

that reference is only for that chapter 13 and not for the 2000 years of the saints miracles and Christ who did the same miracles...



God bless you.

Originally posted by JesusisTruth


The reference about the false prophet miracle, firslt that comes from the KJV translation, a book which the original 1611 copy had pagan symbols all throuhgout it and 100s of errors.... this was because satan created the revolt...

The same greek words in Mar 13:22 for signs and wonders, words that are often translated miracle, these are the same greek words used in reference to the miracles of Christ. Whether they are"real" miracles, or illusions, it does not matter, they are "lying wonders" the result will be the same. Millions will be deceived.

Bleeding statues of Mary, are not from God. These are what I call "showmanship miracle". Miracles that are "showie". Tens of thousands of people flock to see such lying wonders. Yes, some are fake, but many are not faked. Marian idol worship results out of such incidents.

When the False Prophet (the final Pope) calls down fire from heaven, millions will be deceived into accepting such a lying wonder as if it was from God.

reply to post by SirPaulMuaddib

The "test" of a true prophet has NOTHING to do with the miraculous!

It has everything to do with what words come out of his mouth.

You are a little confused here.

God worked miracles through and in the lives lives of many true prophets: Abraham, Moses, Elijah, Elishah, Daniel and his companions, etc., before Christ, and the apostles after Christ - not to mention the Son of God Himself! In the case of two of Christ's apostles, Paul and Barnabus, we are told:

...they stayed there for some time and spoke boldly, in reliance on the Lord, who testified to the message of His grace by granting that signs and wonders be performed through them...

In Lystra a man without strength in his feet, lame from birth, and who had never walked, sat and heard Paul speaking... Paul said in a loud voice "Stand up straight on your feet!" And he jumped up and started to walk around...

When the crowds saw what Paul had done, they raised their voices, saying in the Lycaonian language "The gods have come down to us in the form of men!"... The apostles Barnabus and Paul tore their robes when they heard this and rushed into the crowd, shouting: "Men! Why are you doing these things? We are men also, with the same nature as you, and we are proclaiming good news to you...

Acts 14:3, 8-11 & 14-15b

And what of Christ Himself? This is what the apostle Peter said:

"...listen to these words: This Jesus the Nazarene was a man pointed out to you by God with miracles, wonders and signs that God did among you through Him, just as you yourselves know...

Acts 2:22

The Biblical test of a true prophet was

1) that what he foretold about the future would come to pass (as this signaled he was truly revealing God's words, not his own,) and

2) that what he taught was in keeping with what previously-attested true prophets had said/written in the Bible.

With those fundamental tests in mind, anyone who passed those two tests and also experienced God attesting their message through miraculous signs had a message that was so undeniably from God that it left those who heard their message without excuse.

That was the purpose of miracles: God's unequivocal seal of approval on their teaching. Rejecting their message was rejecting God's message, which was equivalent to rejecting God.

Note what the Son of God Himself taught on this matter:

Again the Jews picked up stones to stone Him. Jesus replied, "I have shown you many good works from the Father. Which of these works are you stoning Me for?"

"We aren't stoning You for a good work," the Jews answered, "but for blasphemy, because You - being a man - make Yourself God."

Jesus answered them, "...because I said I am the Son of God? If I am not doing My Father's works, don't believe Me. But if I am doing them and you don't believe Me, believe the works. This way you will know and understand that the Father is in Me and I in the Father."

John 10:31-33, 34a, 36c-38

You may not agree with this, but if so you do not adhere to the Christian faith. Either way it would be wrong to teach Christians to believe anything other than Christ and those He commissioned taught regarding the purpose of miracles.

reply to post by pause4thought

God worked miracles through and in the lives lives of many true prophets: Abraham, Moses, Elijah, Elishah, Daniel and his companions, etc., before Christ, and the apostles after Christ - not to mention the Son of God Himself! In the case of two of Christ's apostles, Paul and Barnabus, we are told:

Of course, I never said otherwise.

To clarify, yes, these men did miracles, the point I was trying to make, was that a true prophet, in not "confirmed" by the miracle ITSELF.
They are confirmed by what they SAY.

You do realize that up and unto the plague of boils, that the miracles that Moses performed was duplicated by the sorcerers? At the point the sorcerers decided to get "the hell out of the kitchen".

The point is people look to the mircacles and automatically assume it is from God.

2 and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, "Let us follow other gods" (gods you have not known) "and let us worship them," 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 It is the LORD your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him.

Notice this is referring to signs and wonders that TAKE PLACE...the sign or wonder "came true". In other words just because a person performs miracles you should not believe based on the miracle alone, you must check what he says. The miracles are a confirmation ONLY if the words he says are true, and he does not lead you away to false gods. (ie into false teachings etc...as well)

Originally posted by SirPaulMuaddib_2
In other words just because a person performs miracles you should not believe based on the miracle alone, you must check what he says. The miracles are a confirmation ONLY if the words he says are true, and he does not lead you away to false gods. (ie into false teachings etc...as well)

This, I believe, is how even the elect will be deceived (Matthew 24:24). John describes how we can recognize what is from the King in 1 John 2:22a:

Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ.

Paul tells us, too, to not be contemptuous of prophecy, but to test everything and keep that which is good (1 Thessalonians 5:20-21).

How do we test things to know if they are good? We hold them up to scripture. All scripture is God-breathed (2 Timothy 3:16), and is the foundation upon which we can test everything.

If someone performs a miracle, something that defies all human understanding, and then uses it to bring themselves glory or to take away from the idea of Christ as Savior, their words should not be accepted, no matter how convincing the miracle. If, on the other hand, a miracle takes place and is used to point people to the Christ, praise God! Miracles are not done for the sake of miracles, but to bring glory to God and to open hearts to His Truth and His Salvation.

reply to post by SirPaulMuaddib


Amen to that my friend

so many people crying out for "proof" and when it arrives it will fool them all

david

If, on the other hand, a miracle takes place and is used to point people to the Christ, praise God! Miracles are not done for the sake of miracles, but to bring glory to God and to open hearts to His Truth and His Salvation.

Exactly..

Take "speaking in tongues" millions believe in this.

The truth is, back in the days of the apostles IT WAS NEEDED.
They didn't have the ease and use of translators that we do now.

Today it is not needed.

For example, here's a true story of a Chinese man, who went to a church, and one man in the church started to speak in tongues. The other church goers, thought it sounded Chinese, so they asked the man who was visiting if it was. He said yes, it was Chinese, but he said he could not repeat the unmentionable things the man said blaspheming Christ.

The point is, miracles are not just for show. They are always there to serve a purpose. In the days of the apostles, it just was impossible to spread the gospel without the gift of tongues.

Today it is not necessary.

(I do not say it will never be necessary, but 99.99% at this point in time, it does not appear to be necessary)



[edit on 29-5-2008 by SirPaulMuaddib_2]

reply to post by junglejake

This, I believe, is how even the elect will be deceived (Matthew 24:24). John describes how we can recognize what is from the King in 1 John 2:22a:

Yes, unfortunately this will be the case.

The false Prophet will perform all these signs and wonders, and will dupe many people.

Originally posted by SirPaulMuaddib_2
Take "speaking in tongues" millions believe in this.

The truth is, back in the days of the apostles IT WAS NEEDED.
They didn't have the ease and use of translators that we do now.

Today it is not needed.

A few thoughts on this... I've heard the story about the Chinese guy visiting a church, but I've heard it from just about every nationality (well, many), and in every case it was once or twice removed from the person telling the story. That screams urban legend to me.

Regarding speaking in tongues, in the account of doing so in Acts 2, there was a special manifestation of the Spirit. Quite simply, it was the Holy Spirit first coming upon the believers. Given that there were Jews from all over the world that spoke different languages, it was a miracle God performed that made the gospel known to all who were gathered there and had ears to hear (remember, some, though they heard this, said the believers were drunk).

However, this isn't the manifestation of the gift of tongues in its entirety. In First Corinthians 14, Paul describes some elements of the gift of tongues:

2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit. ... 4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified. 6Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction?

From what Paul was saying there, the gift of tongues does not always manifest itself in such a way as to allow all within range of hearing to understand. In fact, the implication is that it does not typically manifest itself in that way. Paul goes on in 1 Corinthians 14 to say another gift of the spirit is the interpretation of tongues, and that, unless someone has the gift of interpretation, tongues should not be spoken in public. Those who do otherwise, though, I believe do so out of ignorance, not malice towards the Gospel.

Here is a good site, with examples of people speaking in "tongues".

www.bible.ca...

Kenneth Copeland and Rodney Howard-Browne call for full time ministers to come forward so they can receive the anointing of drunkenness and holy laughter. This wild clip illustrates some of the most ridiculous examples of holy laughter we have seen. Also included are a few examples of spontaneous movements that resemble epilepsy.

www.bible.ca... ers-drunk-laughter.ram

reply to post by SirPaulMuaddib_2


That's actually something very interesting that C.S. Lewis touched on. Satan, in presenting counterfeit gifts, can cause all, including the elect, to dismiss the gift entirely because they've either seen people falsely claim to have and use the gift or they see bad fruit come from the use of the gift.

Rather than looking to the manifestations of the gift, we should turn our eyes to scripture and see what it has to say. This, too, is why Paul exhorts us to test everything and keep that which is good -- there will be counterfeit gifts and miracles, sometimes from those who were once anointed with the gift, such as was the case with Saul in 1 Samuel. That doesn't mean we should dismiss it all, but to continue to test it all against God's Word.

reply to post by junglejake


Thanks for that.

I dont know whyt his wasnt clear in my mind before, i was positive there was something else to it.

thanks

david