Venezuela Claims US Military Plane Intruded Their Air Space

reply to post by brill


Is it really impossible that this was indeed an "accident"...surely not even high-tech radar and navigation equipment totally negates the possibility of an error/accident/mistake. It would be interesting to know the number of errors which result in navigational mistakes in such planes, but without hard numbers it seems like maybe it's not so impossible as it is improbable. That said, improbable things happen daily.

[edit on 19-5-2008 by xtradimensions]

Its either a mechanical error or a human error that created this topic

1)Mechanical
a) jamming controls by unknown

2) Human
a) lie when spying

reply to post by centurion1211

Glad we can reach a consensus on at least something. Funny how that can happen.

Indeed... I find myself more and more converging on certain views with other more "Right-wing orientated" individuals on the boards. Funny how everyone has to fit into the stereotypes or not fit at all.
There's no middle ground to some people, it's just Liberal/Conservative, Peace/War, This/that, etc...

reply to post by US Monitor


It's a pity someone didn't knock that s-3 down too!

Originally posted by Skydancer
Its either a mechanical error or a human error that created this topic

1)Mechanical
a) jamming controls by unknown

2) Human
a) lie when spying

It can be a probe to see how Venezuela would react if a foreign aircraft flew over their airspace. Columbia (U.S. ally) has been assaulting leftist guerrillas that are seeking shelter in Ecuador, and since Venezuela is also sheltering this group, it might serve as intel for the Columbians in preparation for another covert mission.

reply to post by US Monitor


It's ashame someone didn't nail his S-3. Que sera......

Funny that anytime there's an "accidental incursion" of somebody's airspace, it's always the airspace of one of our "enemies."

If we as a nation keep acting like this, then eventually every time we leave our own airspace we'll be flying in unfriendly skies. :-(

reply to post by brill


So if it was on purpose, why did the aircraft contact a Venezuelan tower to let them know about the mistake?

Hardly a spy move to let people know you are there . . .

Originally posted by mattifikation
Funny that anytime there's an "accidental incursion" of somebody's airspace, it's always the airspace of one of our "enemies."

Well if its friendly airspace, i guess its not really an accidental incursion. I doubt very seriously you will hear on the news, "US flew a jet over canadian airspace today accidentally" Not really news since we fly over our friends airspace all the time.

My $.02

Silver

reply to post by Exiled and Angry

Gee its a shame that if you happen to walk on someone else's property that they don't shoot you.


Some sick people on this board actually wishing these pilots were killed for accidentally flying over airspace of another country. I bet most of these people saying this are 'anti-war' too.

Folks,
This kind of thing happens all of the time.

The only reason it even made it in the news is because Chavez is whining about it. Which is about the only thing he could have done in this situation.

This kind of thing happens all the time, without much incident. For example:

In September 2007, Finland accused Russian jets of violating Finnish airspace. SOURCE

A Russian air force bomber briefly violated Japanese airspace over the uninhabited island of Sofugan just south of Tokyo on Saturday, the Foreign Ministry said. SOURCE

Chavez is making a big deal out of it because he knows it plays well with anti-American sentiment in Venezuela, and the so-called "useful idiots" abroad, as evidenced by some of the posts here.

reply to post by SaviorComplex


I suppose they were both spying and should have been shot down too





Unless they just want American planes shot down

Originally posted by xxpigxx
Unless they just want American planes shot down

I think you have it on the nose. Dissatisfied with politics in Washington, they align themselves with men like Chavez, even if only in spirit. They have devolved from a legitimate dissatisfaction and dislike of Bush (or politics in general) to an unknowing anti-Americanism. They over-look the flaws of men like Chavez, take his word at face-value, because they already assume the worst, not realizing all the while they are being manipulated.

[edit on 20-5-2008 by SaviorComplex]

As for the Russia comment, I'm quite sure the author meant it as a quasi-facetious remark.
(You have to admit, the US is turning slightly fascist, but Russia is no shining beacon of light either)

Now, back to the topic.


I can't see this being a pilot accidentally off course, the navigation systems on most modern aircraft, (and heck, even in a soldiers hand,) make it remarkably hard to "accidentally" wind up somewhere you didn't intend to be.

I think the most likely scenario is, the pilot noticed something of interest that was on the wrong side of the border, and requested permission to check it out, or pursue. In turn, he may have been granted permission from control on the basis that he does not open fire.

Crossing the border never amounts to causing an exchange of fire, opening fire does.


However, I do believe the US does owe an explanation. Even though their military may be rather large and over-funded, it still does not give them the right to go around violating the airspace of other smaller nations.

Remember, he did tell the tower of his incursion into the prohibited airspace.

I just really don't think it is that big of a deal.

Originally posted by SaviorComplex
Chavez is making a big deal out of it because he knows it plays well with anti-American sentiment in Venezuela, and the so-called "useful idiots" abroad, as evidenced by some of the posts here.

Thats a very good point and it sure helps his support with the anti-Columbian guerrillas that seek shelter in his country.

Originally posted by wutone
Thats a very good point and it sure helps his support with the anti-Columbian guerrillas that seek shelter in his country.

To both his people and the "useful idiots" abroad, it is proof of his allegations, that Bush is after him. He does what Bush is accused of doing here in the US, proping up a boogeyman to scare his citizens. It is ironic that those very people who accuse Bush of it here falls for it when Chavez does it.

One wonders how he will play it once a new President is in office, though I doubt his rhetoric will change.

reply to post by centurion1211

God I am glad to see that someone else that the idiot talking about russia saving us was indeed an idiot!

Secondly I am a little confused, this site purports to be a site for we will say "other than usual" thought, and yet the very people who claim to have these uncensored opinions, wnat to censor anyone who does not agree with them?

Now the topic, it entirely possibly a plane was ACCIDENTLY in Venezuelan airspace, the planes use a combination of INS, and GPS, neither are perfect, AND/OR we may have been seeing how good their radar converage was, and we routinely test airspace limits to judge possible reaction times if it were ever relevant info. Chavez is an idiot himself, so he does need more space, he needs a new job! And enough with the oil monger talk people! IF we invaded iraq for oil, we would be pumping oil out the wazoo for ourselves instead of sending it to market the way we are! (when we can get it to flow) I dont see us invading venezuela as a first strke operation, but with Iran and Russia as major allies, it MAY happen. But it won't, a war with venzuela means a war with Russia and a war with Iran...a bad idea. Just an invasion of iran is possible, maybe likely at some point and russia would not intervene, because it would be about nuclear weapons and even they are against iran have nuc's. People use logic!

Of course we did this. And we have subs in your waters. We are overflying your country with satellites. We've probably HALO'd SEALS into your mountains. What, exactly, are you going to do about it Sr. Chavez?