I just don't see how this infringes on others rights. You don't have to like it, you don't have to support it, just ignore it. I don't see how this would personally affect anyone other than those in the homosexual community. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that you're right, heck I dislike quite a few things but I don't complain about them because it's not my choice how anyone else lives their life. If it was, rap and country music would both be outlawed.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
I am so sick of this 'Gay is a choice' claptrap!!

It is not, I repeat, not a choice!!!!


By that logic, 'straight' is a choice as well.....it just DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY!!!

Weedwhacker - ya know what's really pathetically humorous.

"They" want us to accept a "people's" vote of BELIEF - - over the courts saying the Constitution guarantees equality.

Yet "they" - want to deny science. And instead support BELIEF - - again.

I find myself debating with myself over this issue a lot. Sound strange? Well here are all of my points below (beware they may not make any sense).

1. I can't understand why the religious community gets their panties in a twist over this issue. Shouldn't they know that God supposedly sent us here and gave us free will to choose what WE want in OUR lives. So, when members of religious groups who think that Gay marriage is wrong really are wasting their time because the God that they believe in gave us all freedom to do what we want with our lives. Right?
a. Also, just because they aren't married doesn't mean they aren't going to 'fornicate' so what does it even matter if they are married or not? What is the big deal if they get married? Because according to the religious groups if they are together they are already committing the sin so is getting married a bigger sin or something?

2. I think that if Han Solo and Chewbacca want to get married they should have to right to choose to do so. Who cares? Does it really effect YOUR life if Adam and Steve tie the knot? What will it DO to you? Nothing. Nobody is forcing you to be gay. What would us straight people think if they declared that marriage is only allowed between man and man or woman and woman, wouldn't we then feel hurt and betrayed? It wouldn't be fair if we couldn't make the ultimate legal committment to the ones we love? I think that nobody can help whom they love.. its something that just happens. I mean if I could have, I would have fallen in love with a millionaire, but alas I found the most joy with my husband, who is far beyond a millionaire.

3. Yesterday I was watching the news and they said that Inter-racial marriage was against the law 60 years ago! I never knew this and I can't believe it. If this hadn't been overturned then I wouldn't be allowed to be married to my husband.

I believe that we all have the right to choose what is best in and for our lives. If someone wants to be a Priest and never marry, that is their right. If Suzy Q and Ragedy Ann want to get married that is their right to do so!

In conclusion, I am happy that this has finally happened. Everyone deserves to be happy and if marrying someone of the same sex makes them happy then leave them be. If it truly is an offense to God, then in the afterlife, if there is one, they will answer to him. After all isn't he supposedly the ultimate judge?

Props to California!

The most cogent argument that I have heard against same sex marriage is that it will ultimately destroy the family unit as it exists today. It is considered a threat to social standards.

The other argument that I think has some merit is the slippery slope argument.

Nobody knows the long term effects on children if they are raised by two fathers or mothers. Are we willing to take that risk? Do we really want to perform that social experiment? To what end?

Legally, I have no problem if Bill wants to leave his estate to Bob. Or to name him as a beneficiary on his life insurance policy.

Gay adoption? I don't know if we've thought that one out completely yet.

What other issues are there? Tax benefits? I'm a huge advocate of a flat tax, so I don't care one way or the other.

Someone here mentioned that gay-ness is strictly about sexuality, and desires. Fine. Why does marriage have to enter the picture?

I'm asking because I want to know why it is so important to gays to be married?

[edit on 16-5-2008 by jsobecky]

Originally posted by jsobecky
The most cogent argument that I have heard against same sex marriage is that it will ultimately destroy the family unit as it exists today. It is considered a threat to social standards.

Do you not have any comments in regards to what many members have already said about that? It's hard to want to respond to that, when others have, and it goes unnoticed...

Nobody knows the long term effects on children if they are raised by two fathers or mothers. Are we willing to take that risk? Do we really want to perform that social experiment? To what end?

Again Becky, this has been addressed by many posters. If I respond to this... will you read it? Did you not having anything to say in regards to what many members have already said in opposition?

We do know the long term affects. Believe it or not there are "grown ups" that were raised by homosexual parents. Anyways, I will reserve further elaboration until I understand why you haven't addressed the other posters.

Gay adoption? I don't know if we've thought that one out completely yet.

"we"? No offense, but don't you mean you? Seriously, there are entire organizations thinking that one out...

And what is your gripe specifically? Adoption? Or the fact it is homosexuals adopting?

Even though you haven't explicitly stated in this thread per se, I understand from other threads your position on this, so I guess I am being rhetorical

Someone here mentioned that gay-ness is strictly about sexuality, and desires. Fine. Why does marriage have to enter the picture?

It's not strictly about sex. It's the same as heterosexuality.

What do you attribute to heterosexuality? The same is to be attributed to homosexuality.

Sex? Yep. Intimacy? Yep. Partnership? Yep. All those things apply to both generally, and sometimes not individually.

The reason people that support gay-marriage is because they understand it is in accordance with equality and thus in accordance to our constitutional rights. Freedom and personal liberty, no? "America Free of double standards" should be your subhead

Let me turn that question around: Why is it so important that gays shouldn't be allowed to marry? I am pretty sure I know your answer. Here is mine, if you haven't gathered by now:

Equality

[edit on 043131p://16u05 by Lucid Lunacy]

Originally posted by galatea
. I can't understand why the religious community gets their panties in a twist over this issue.
Props to California!

I know there are reasonable people out there who believe gay marriage is not propeer or should not be sanctioned. I do however find it irrational for people to be rabidly anti-gay marriage and consider the "threat" of gay marriage to be comparable in importance to social problems like the Iraq war, the sagging economy, and terrorism.

My belief is that politicians on the right use the gay mariage issue as a red herring to rally up votes. Those that are rabidlyt anti-gay marriage probably have issues. Some of them might not be smart enough to know that they are being duped by politicians. Some of them might not be comfortable with their own sexuality. They might be deeply closeted, self hating gays. They may also have unusual sexual desires and have guilt or shame that stems from their sexual desires. Bashing gays can make these people feel good about themselves.

Originally posted by jsobecky

Gay adoption? I don't know if we've thought that one out completely yet.


[edit on 16-5-2008 by jsobecky]

I personally find these archaic social issues - well - archaic.

Anyone ever ask a child - if they care - as long as their parents are loving and supportive?

It is weird how some people care more about their own fears - - then a child being loved.

I for one see it as if it feels good do it. If you wish to spend the rest of your life with someone of the same sex then so be it. If you love that person enough to spend your life together who am I or anyone else to stop or judge you? Do I find it repulsive? Yes. But I'm sure there are things I do that others might find repulsive. Like smoking. I only think it's fair that if I can't smoke in public then I shouldn't have to see two men kissing in public. You don't want to smell my smoke then I don't want to see Adam and Steve rubbing their beards together.

All joking aside.

The only issue I have with this is that the residents of California voted to ban gay marriage did they not? And if I read it right before, it passed with flying colors. Something like 80 % of Cali residents voted to ban.( If this is wrong please correct me)

So a few judges felt it necessary to overturn a law that the majority of people in the state voted for to appease a handful?
Doesn't really seem fair to the smokers does it?

After proof reading this post it seems to stink of ignorance but hey what do I care Adam and Steve just sent me a wedding invitation!

Originally posted by jsobecky
I'm asking because I want to know why it is so important to gays to be married?

Simple answer. You obviously don't understand the thousands of documents gays have to come up with (even if they are "domestic parters") to equal your one piece of paper.

Originally posted by Simon_Boudreaux
Like smoking. I only think it's fair that if I can't smoke in public then I shouldn't have to see two men kissing in public.r.

So its OK to see a man and woman playing "tonsil hockey" in public?

Again - a majority vote on a mostly religious belief? Got to hand it to them - they are persistent in trying to make this a non-secular government.

However - the Constitution is designed to prevent exactly that. And that is exactly what happened in California.

[edit on 16-5-2008 by Annee]

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Simon_Boudreaux
Like smoking. I only think it's fair that if I can't smoke in public then I shouldn't have to see two men kissing in public.r.

So its OK to see a man and woman playing "tonsil hockey" in public?

Again - a majority vote on a mostly religious belief? Got to hand it to them - they are persistent in trying to make this a non-secular government.

However - the Constitution is designed to prevent exactly that. And that is exactly what happened in California.

[edit on 16-5-2008 by Annee]

Tonsil hockey no. Simple passionate kisses or pecks I have no problem with.

You missed the whole point of that sentence. It's not fair that the people of California can let their votes be overturned by 4 judges that from my understanding are appointed and not elected. With that said, I think it's not fair to every other resident of California that has had a vote against them like smokers for instance. People voted for smoking bans the same as they voted for gay marriage bans. If they overturn one just to satisfy the homosexuals then they need to overturn the smoking ban to satisfy the smokers.

You feel that gay marriage shouldn't be banned because it's all religious mumbo jumbo. I feel it's a lot more than that. I believe it has to do with what people see as wrong or gross regardless of religious views. I'm not a religious person at all and I still view it as wrong. Not from a religious stand point but from a visual. I simply don't want to see it. But just because I don't want to see it doesn't mean I don't think you have the right to do it. And I believe you can't overturn a vote on a ban to satisfy one group while leaving the ban on other groups.

Originally posted by Simon_Boudreaux
Not from a religious stand point but from a visual. I simply don't want to see it.

Let's hope you use more then that when you come to other moral decisions in your life...

But just because I don't want to see it doesn't mean I don't think you have the right to do it.

Right on thank you.

So if there was a law banning PDA of homosexuals, which way would you vote?