California Supreme Court strikes down the state's ban on same-sex marriage as unconstitutional., page 10

reply to post by weedwhacker

---

Thank you.

I disagree with you slightly. I can make a choice to live as a homosexual, a bi-sexual, or a heterosexual. Sure, in retrospect the person who starts as a homosexual then goes to bi-sexual, then heterosexual, then homosexual again could realistically be called a bi-sexual with a homosexual preference. We all have choices. Yes, I agree that being born with a certain sexual preference happens all the time, hell you even get super males (XXY), super females (XXX), and other variances that affect the sexual preference, not to mention physical attributes of that person.

However, I can choose to fall in love with a man or a woman, and if I only have a partner of my gender, the people who don't want that will brand me a homosexual, which is more along the lines of what I am speaking.

reply to post by GideonHM

---

I can only disagree with you, Gideon....because I know I would never be attracted to a woman....ever....so that puts me on the scale as completely homosexual, since I am male.

Sorry ladies! I'm not on the market!! Even if I do look like Tom Sellick!!

oops...I don't....would you settle for Robin Williams???

kidding....more like Michael Douglas.....but without all the money (I gave it all away to Robin....along with my back hair!!)

Originally posted by Annee
Somehow - I don't think falling in love and sexual attraction are necessarily the same thing.

I also believe you can "fall in love" with anyone - - but them pheromones can be a bit more selective.

news.nationalgeographic.com...

"Sexy" Smells Different for Gay, Straight Men, Study Says:

Stefan Lovgren
for National Geographic News
May 10, 2005

A new study shows that gay men respond differently from straight men when exposed to a suspected sexual stimulus found in male sweat.

When homosexual men smelled the odor of male sweat—more specifically, a chemical in the male hormone testosterone—their brains responded similarly to those of women.

The findings suggest that brain activity and sexual orientation are linked. It also supports an opinion held by most scientists, that people are born—not bred—gay.

"This is one more line of evidence that there's a biological substring for sexual orientation," said Dean Hamer, a geneticist at the National Institutes of Health in Bethesda, Maryland.

Hamer is the author of The Science of Desire: The Gay Gene and the Biology of Behavior. He was not involved in the research, which was conducted by scientists at Karolinska Institutet in Stockholm, Sweden.

The study was published today in the research journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

I recommend this and science daily.com

reply to post by projectvxn

---

project....interesting study you found....but, I assure you, it will not apply to all humans, whether hetero or homo...

Yes, the pheromone (which I assume the study is....er....studying) can have an effect, it isn't that simple.

There is the visual...which usually overwhelms whatever 'pheromone based' instincts may have been built in by evolution....

Every straight man I've known has a certain 'ideal' woman in mind....and they are all very different. It's the hair, or the eye color, or the hips, or the breasts.....there is no ONE defining factor....except, the man is attracted to a woman....BUT not all women!!!!!

Same with women...they are less likely to focus on the physical attributes...oh, at first, of course....but women will overlook minor physical flaws when they see true heart....and truthfulness....in a man.

Gay men, I'm sorry to say, also focus, at first, on the physical....just like straight men! What a surprise!!!

But, as human nature, even some gay men have learned to look beyond, to look past the warts and the big nose and the big stomach.....just as a woman will look beyond the warts and the big nose and the big stomach....and love the person within. Because, you can be young and beautiful, have a gorgeous, the best body....but that will grow old, no matter what....and what's important is the person inside.

editting....re-read what your posted, 'project'....all that I already typed might be bollocks! But, some of it is pertinent, if not directly in respnse to YOUR post! Cheers!



[edit on 5/17/0808 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by Annee

---

Not to deviate from thread topic, but I'll add my thoughts.

I wouldn't find incest wrong in a moral sense... again as long as it is truly consensual between adults. Except for the fact that it has been shown scientifically that incest has a high probability of causing health problems. Or is that not so? I don't know, I am not too well read on this..

I don't know if it is social programming, or my genetics, but I have never felt an attraction for a family member. So I can't relate to this idea. BUT... if it doesn't in fact cause health problems, then I would see no issue as long as it is between consensual adults.

reply to post by Annee

---

When I said "attraction" I meant sexual attraction specifically.

With the adoption thing... do you mean a feeling that compels them to bond... or did you mean sexual attraction?

More then off topic it seems. Maybe we can relate this to thread topic eventually hehe

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by Annee

---

When I said "attraction" I meant sexual attraction specifically.

With the adoption thing... do you mean a feeling that compels them to bond... or did you mean sexual attraction?

More then off topic it seems. Maybe we can relate this to thread topic eventually hehe

Yes. An attraction that could lead to sexual.

When you are attracted to someone - you don't always know why.

reply to post by Annee

---

So are you suggesting incest is natural, or are you suggesting incest is natural and likely common?

If it is natural, then wouldn't that be in a destructive juxtaposition in light of the evidence on the genetic problems associated with it?

p.s we can relate this to the thread, i know we can!

reply to post by Anonymous ATS

---

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
You cannot marry your daughter (providing she is under age) because she is not an adult. Also, is there any proof that you cannot, in fact, marry your daughter? Can someone find a precedence for that claim? I'm sure/almost certain it has happened.

There are laws which deal with consanguinity ("con- (with) sanguine (blood) -ity") and marriage. Also, there are culturally-defined degrees of consanguinity in which sexual relationships are defined as incestuous.

There are reasons for these taboos. Flipper babies, for one.

Has it happened? Who knows. Probably it has. That doesn't make it right, though.

reply to post by GideonHM

---

I honestly think that part of my issue with the mostly backward logic is the refusal to admit fear. I've noticed so many convinced of some sort of "gay agenda" just as with the civil right moments all the white women were going to be corrupted by the "big scary guys". Although I was not nearly even born yet when the civil rights movement happened I can still see the correlations.

It quite frankly scares the heck out of me when I can witness hate, disguised and dressed up pretty in whatever kind of "religion right" they think makes it look best. But, strip away all those layers and deep down it's still the same hate.

I'm sorry but I personally find this phrase rather offensive: "I have nothing against _____ but they are going to burn in hell." Seriously here? You do not see what a lousy thing to say that is? Thanks but no.

Although my last post was a bit on the snark side, it is for the reasons above. Truly, does anyone who prescribes themselves to out dated logic, (ie. the man upstairs is going to condemn!! - type thing) how do you truly justify this? Judge not right?

Many in my family do indeed prescribe to the same illogical logic that you've mentioned with you father. My Aunts namely are just vicious biddies. Long history of me and them at odds, due to many factors.

When people get to the point where they will deny proven scientific principals just to make themselves right, arguments tend to go downhill fast. (Animals are not read not inherently preferential toward one gender or another, yes including the top- people. True albeit a m/m or a w/w cannot produce offspring, that is still a moot point in the larger scheme. For it in and of itself would require the entire (or at least 80-90%) to only choose the same gender time after time. (No chance in heck of that happening ever.)

Either way, I have never had anyone come to me and tell me a non-biased logic based reason as to why it's "wrong" for people of the same gender to love each other. The only thing I've ever gotten what some random religious reasoning based off of a book from 2000+ years ago.

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by Annee

---

So are you suggesting incest is natural, or are you suggesting incest is natural and likely common?

If it is natural, then wouldn't that be in a destructive juxtaposition in light of the evidence on the genetic problems associated with it?

p.s we can relate this to the thread, i know we can!

Attraction is natural.

Incest is a social taboo.

I know there have been cases of brother/sister & mother/son - - who later discovered they were related

Originally posted by Buck Division

Over and over again, in this thread, I have seen the assertion that homosexuality is something that is genetically predetermined.

UC Davis scientists’ groundbreaking research: mate-attracting chemicals. news.ucanr.org...

This is just one study - there are others.

Although science is not saying "we've pinpointed the exact . . ." - - - - they now believe there is no clear Black & White in gender or sexual attraction.

BREAKING rumour: Kim Jong-Un assassinated?
  Posted 2 days ago with 84 member flags

Iran, perceiving threat from West, willing to attack on U.S. soil, U.S. intelligence report finds
  Posted 12 days ago with 41 member flags

Parents furious as 13-year-old girls given contraceptive implants at school without their knowledge
  Posted 3 days ago with 28 member flags

State Considers Law to Bypass Gun Permits
  Posted 2 days ago with 28 member flags

European Parliament Official In Charge Of ACTA Quits, And Denounces The \'Masquerade\' Behind ACTA
  Posted 16 days ago with 26 member flags

Record 1.2 Million People Fall Out Of Labor Force In One Month, Labor Force Participation Rate Tumbl
  Posted 9 days ago with 25 member flags

Romney Reports Income From Funds at Goldman Sachs
  Posted 18 days ago with 23 member flags

Again, Eric Holder Caught Lying Under Oath Regarding F&F!!! He knew about Agent Terry\'s Murder
  Posted 13 days ago with 23 member flags

Newest topics, updated in real-time:

Newest topics getting flags, in real-time:

Newest topics getting replies, in real-time: