What If YOU Had The Solution?

Before I found This Thread I posted This in The Auto Section of BTS...

Since Oil prices are Jumping, and Gas prices with them.
Let me Ask:

What would happen if a solution came up?
What Would You Do?
How Would You Handle it?

What if you knew how to make a car that didn't require EVER having to stop for fuel, Requiring No Gasoline, No Plug into the house for electricity and charge up the batteries - etc. and something almost anybody who could spin a wrench could do to almost any car/truck/SUV (a few alterations) So, No funny looking car like the 80's electric cars.

No place to build a prototype.

Big Oil would want to make sure that it didn't get out - at any costs. (It would reduce oil from fuel to a lubricant, and free America from being Dependant on Oil).

You couldn't really tell the Auto Co's could you?
Seems like they've been involved with big oil too long, so they'd suppress it.

How would You get into production?
How would You keep up with demand?
What about the Money?
Not Only the out lay to build a prototype, but going from where you are at money wise to having more than Bill Gates...
But Also in doing so, Everybody Everywhere knows you on sight - which could be a very bad thing - You just destroyed the Oil industry, the Auto industry, and hurt a lot of people. You wiped out the states ability to tax fuel, and extremist groups would probably declare you to be the Devil. -

Curious about what You would do IF You had the Solution.

"Nothing More Powerful than an Idea who's time has come..."

Would you Take it public or keep it to yourselves?
If you took it public, how would you do it?

[edit on 5/13/2008 by dancer]

Well, with only a few adjustments and me being able to do it, i'd teach/do it for as many people as I could. mass education so that there would be too many people who know how to do this to be able to stop it. I wouldn't sell my knowledge for a better world if the knowledge wasn't gonna be used in no way good. I would go to mechanic shops and inform them on this revolutionary change. I'd take it public while keeping it to myself in a way.






...so you gonna teach us how to do it?! I'm running low on gas money!!

I'd donate the knowledge to the Public Domain to ensure that even Mom & Pop innovators could utilize it, and I'd make a video series on how the process works, then put it on YouTube, and send it to every Media source I could find. If I had truly found THE solution, there's no way even auto and oil companies could stop it, especially if I had donated the work to the public domain and made the videos freely available to all.

THEN I'd use the Nobel Prize money (cause let's be honest, the first person to solve the problem would get the Nobel Prize) along with my status as NP winner and the original inventor of the process, to start my own company to capitalize on the process and improve upon it. That way I can make a buck, but by having the original plans in the public domain, I ensure that the technology and process outlives myself and my company.

I think the Libra has it right. You would have to make sure it works and is repeatable. Don't tell a soul until you have all the kinks out. Once it is all worked out, drop a media bomb. Send it to everyone you know, every media outlet, upload plans to BitTorrent networks, upload videos to youtube, digg, reddit, ATS... etc. Leave no stone unturned and ensure that once you let the genie out of the bottle, the oil companies can't put it back in.

Even if you don't get the Nobel prize, you would be able to live knowing that you saved the world from oil dependency. To me that would be a satisfying reward. Money would be nice too, but if that is your first goal, you will never get your project out the door.

I'm a little surprised at the answers, I was sure that some one would have said to collect the pay off from Big Oil or someone. It does give me some hope for mankind.

I am glad that it is not my decision to make.
There is no question that the Money and Power would be a temptation for me. No question about that!

The Nobel Prize money is a nice gesture but a million bucks isn't what it used to be. (Funny - Odd at how many people would consider donating it to the public domain to be a silly or stupid notion because "They" would have made a kajillion dollars from it).

The MOST Important thing without any question would be the benefit to mankind. (And in addition - one less reason to have a war).

I was shown the idea on paper, and I can say that on paper it does work.
It is very simple - taking about 2 paragraphs to describe.
(and, yes - any shade tree mechanic should be able to do it in a weekend with a little help from a friend).

I have been sworn to secrecy regarding The specifics of How to do it, The person with the idea is taking 60 to 90 days to figure things out, says it is a bit of a moral dilemma:

On one hand is the complete destruction of the oil industry, some heavy damage in the Auto Industry, Etc.

On the other hand is the public welfare, The average guy on the street really needs to win one. If there are no Fuel Costs fuel will never cause your grocer to hike prices. The Oil Companies are really sticking it to us, and we can not tolerate it anymore. So, this is proof that we don't need them, they need us!

Needless to say, a little paranoid (Nobody wants to end up like Stan Meyer's, or Tucker). As a small safeguard copies have been sent to a few friends scattered around the world. When the Genie gets out of the bottle - the bottle's gotta be broken.

Think You tube, P2p/Bit Torrent, and other sights would be a good start.

With ATS Copyright Policies, I don't know if posting it here would be acceptable, (Don't want to start any legal problems) however I do not see a reason why it couldn't be linked in.

I'll keep ya posted when I hear something...

[edit on 5/13/2008 by dancer]

Originally posted by dancer
I'm a little surprised at the answers, I was sure that some one would have said to collect the pay off from Big Oil or someone. It does give me some hope for mankind.

Well, keep in mind that ATS is a different kind of crowd. Most of us wouldn't even be on this site if we were the kind of person willing to help Big Oil get a stranglehold on "free energy". That said, hypothetical responses are always more altruistic than the reality.

It's easy for me to say "I would donate it to the public domain" because I'm not holding the billion dollar check in one hand, and the plans in the other, with my wife staring at me with that "you SAID we were going to Italy one day" look on her face.

Still, I like to think that, even given the temptation of more money than I could ever spend in my lifetime, that I would do the Right thing, and donate it to the public domain. Some things, like free energy, are just flat out more important than wealth.

Originally posted by dancer
The Nobel Prize money is a nice gesture but a million bucks isn't what it used to be.

Anyone who can't make a comfortable life on a million-dollar windfall in today's age lacks both restraint and financial acumen. Even a modest money-market account yielding a 4% interest rate would return $40k/year in interest. That's a better salary than most people make (about $20/hr) that you don't have to do anything for. Combine it with your day job, and you've got yourself some serious wealth-building potential.

Many people make the mistake of thinking wealth happens as the result of one quick windfall landing them in the high life of luxury. True wealth is built over time, with savings, investment, and careful money management. With an extra $40k/yr on top of my current salary, I could turn that into tens, if not hundreds of millions of dollars by retirement age. Possibly billions if I just happened to have extremely good timing and judgment.

Originally posted by dancer
I was shown the idea on paper, and I can say that on paper it does work.

Well, man, I hate to say this, but we've all had that piece of paper before, sitting in the IHOP at 3am at a table littered with creamers and sugar packets used to illustrate physics concepts to one another.

Until you have an experiment, with quantifiable, duplicable results, what you have is called a "coffee house dream". So-called because these great ideas are constantly being dreamt-up in coffee houses (or IHOP, or Denny's) and then nothing ever happens from them, and eventually it fades away.

If you and your friend truly have found a way to generate relatively free energy, or at least energy that is outside the carbon-based fuels, then more "power" to you, but instead of taking 60 to 90 days to figure things out, it should receive your full priority attention to the exclusion of anything else except, possibly, your day jobs as you will need food and shelter and supplies for the experiements.

You then need to set about documenting the experiment. Start just like you would in high school, with the research, the ingredients, the plan, and the hypothesis, and then set about recording every step, via video, photos, notebooks, etc, quantifying every datum. If you get a good result, repeat the experiment to make sure it can be duplicated. Do it again, and again. Don't let tweaking the numbers or thumbing the scales enter the picture, and make absolutely, completely certain the results can be duplicated.

I cannot stress that enough, if the average scientist cannot duplicate your experiment using the steps you provided, with no input from you, then it will, quite simply, fail. This is what happened with Cold Fusion. It wasn't any sort of conspiracy on the part of Big Energy, it was that the people who originally made the claim didn't make certain the result could be duplicated before announcing it to the public. If you announce it to the public OR patent it, before you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it can be duplicated, your process will fail.

Second, hiding a "miracle process" behind a veil of secrecy will not protect your product, all it will do is ensure that less people try it, and that you do not receive Peer Review (another crucial factor in acceptance of any new technology). It is only when you make the materials, process, and expected results public that you can hope for other scientists to carry it to the next level and beyond. Hiding it from prying eyes will only ensure that most of them never attempt it and the ones that do will more than likely just steal your work.

Donating it to the public domain is the only responsible choice, but don't do so until you can prove it works, over and over again, and someone else can prove it works that isn't you and your lab partner.

Originally posted by dancer
On one hand is the complete destruction of the oil industry, some heavy damage in the Auto Industry, Etc.

Seriously doubtful. You don't make tens of billions a year based on a company that can be "completely destroyed" by one idea on a piece of paper. It might cut into the gas and oil power-plant industries, but much of it goes into fertilizers, plastics, lubricants, feedstocks, and various other products.



Also, consider that an industry that powerful will not be overthrown overnight. It would be a slow, gradual process of first denial by all the car and oil industries. Then assuming your process is duplicable and proven, it might ride the coattails on an Alternative Energy bill, where it is presented as an option alongside others such as hybrids, solar, hydrogen, etc, and perhaps, if there is enough consumer interest and demand, one prototype model will be produced, and barely advertised, with the worst possible budget, worst advertisement, and the worst placement, in hopes that no one purchases the vehicle (this is what happened with GM's Electric Car). They will do everything in their power to prove the car is unsalable, while at the same time working on the sidelines to prove it isn't safe. One of the two will work out.

If a company does manage to actually embrace the technology and sell it, it will, within a matter of a year or so, be subject to a hostile takeover, assuming that the competitors do not succeed in crushing them. Once that company is bought out, the option you speak of will disappear into corporate ownership as leverage in some back-room negotiation over a couple of percentage points with OPEC.

This is the fate of your product if you do not donate it to the public domain.

Originally posted by dancer
With ATS Copyright Policies, I don't know if posting it here would be acceptable, (Don't want to start any legal problems) however I do not see a reason why it couldn't be linked in.

Copyright isn't the same as a patent, but you might want to U2U Crakeur just to make sure. Regardless, remember the golden rule of science: if it can't be duplicated, it's not science.

Yes, the posters on ATS are Much different than those on other boards.

You certainly gave me a bit to think about and to relay.

There is no question that it would best be served if it were given to the Public.
(At least that way it couldn't be stopped).

The Delay, was talking to a local University about pursuing the project, and arranging an appointment with a patent lawyer. Fortunately but a little disappointing I found this:
Existing Patent
www.freepatentsonline.com...

Which seems to be So close to what I saw drawn that it's eerie.

Hmmm... Could be very difficult to implement. The idea sounds good, a flash-heater used for a steam engine, the problem is in finding something portable that puts out enough juice to power a flash heater capable of producing enough steam quickly enough to turn an engine large enough to pull at least 1000 lbs. The second problem you run into is drain.

Flash-heating works because you have a very short burst of a very large pull of energy. While this is extremely efficient for houses compared to traditional water heaters, it is because traditional heaters are always heating your water, even when you don't need them to. Plus there's the additional water wastage used when waiting for the hot-water to circulate through the system, and the health-hazard you'd get from any large dark tank of hot water. Flash heaters only heat for as long as you need hot water, and then they're off. So even though you might use a lot of juice for a short period of time (like washing hands, taking a shower, etc) you still use a lot of juice in that short amount of time.

Your typical flash-heater units will require from 50-120amps, and 208-240 volts, of alternating current. That is a LOT of power.

10,400 - 28,000 Watts, or 10-28kW per hour.

Average U.S. Kitchen Unit = 1,170kWh per year, or a little over 3.2kW per day.

So you would need the equivalent of 3-7 days worth of some major kitchen appliance's worth of electricity to power your flash-heater for one hour.

The best Toyota Prius battery currently available has a capacity of about 288V*6.5A, so about 1.8kWh, or enough to power your flash heater for about 4-10min.

Now, far be it from me to ever claim an idea is doomed from the start, however I would go so far as to say that with today's technology, you would need a significant advance in battery technology before this idea is feasible.

[edit on 5/19/2008 by thelibra]

I would sell it to an oil company for a billion dollars. Sorry, I'd like to pretend I was more noble than that, but that's what I would do. I imagine a lot of people would do the same as me...might not admit it on here, but I think they would.

I have chased this one for quite some time. The people that pop up with a solution are either discredited, or pop their heads down real quick like the whack a mole game. Of the people I actually talked to a couple had been directly and also indirectly threatened. Gee no mystery there. One should expect it if they dabble in someone elses wallet.

Two instances were very close right on here and both left in anger over the way some of the idiots here treated them. I found a couple more on other sites that lacked the final engineering work but were apparently viable. In the case of one of them it seems that the device functions fine but emits electrical fields that are not safe to be around. Of course a Pius does the same thing. Put your kids in the back seat for their whole youth and expect some scrambled brains. Get a meter and see for yourself......

The hard and fast answer is the higher technology materials that are being created today were not available to the dreamers and builders even a decade ago and they are available today. Breaking the laws of science will not work but some of these newer materials may allow a slight bend and that is all it takes.

We are moving very fast now to a disclosure and big oil knows it, hence the prices. Last grab so to speak.