Project Camelot's NEW 4hr long interview with John Lear

reply to post by h3akalee


Thats not true. I had a few discussions with Mr Lear where I disagreed with his views. I emphatically disagreed with some of his theories and discussed my opposing viewpoints with him in great detail.

Not once was I repremanded for disagreeing with Mr. Lear. Probably the way I posed the argument had something to do with it.

It's all in the delivery h3akalee

I'm a bit disapointed. It seems everyone here just wants to kick John Lear when he cant even defend himself. I've heard Skeptic Overlord say he has an open invitation to post here, only his title has changed, but in this he says hes banned for life. Maybe I am the one missing something, and thats fine if I am, God knows it wont be the first time, but As much as people are sick of John Lear, I'm sick of people putting down a guy for whatever reason. I mean, after reading this all I can say is "Is this the community with which I associate myself?"

For the record, since i know it'll come up, I'm not a "Learologist". I like some of what he had to say, and didn't like others, much like anyone else. But seriously, could we do something productive with this information other than just trample it because it says something negative about ATS?

Rise above it.

reply to post by Acidtastic


Acidtastic I have said some really nutty things on this site. I mean REALLY nutty things. Swearing on a forum is a crutch. and there is a way to do it without getting in trouble. It's self censoring. see this little guy use that in place of whatever swear word you wish to use and the point of the colorful metaphor will come through in what you write.

This site is well maintained because its geared for the adult and meaningful discussion of alternative topics. It has to be well moderated because of the relm of ideas that it deals in.

While I never agreed with Mr. Lears ideas he had a place to post those ideas. And I do too. Some of my ideas are pretty idiotic, and I get schooled for the idiocy I post.

now watching a 4 hour long video from a person whose ideas I did not ever agree with? not my idea of a good time. I mean we all love root canals but we reserve that pleasure for when they are necessary.

reply to post by kthulu

It has been said many times in many threads (though I know they can be missed) that all John has to do is agree that there was/is no reason to air the dirty laundry between two CMs in public and he can post away.

John is using this as some trumped up conspiracy to make himself look the victim, well it's bunk. All S. O. asked of him was to GET OVER the fact that JRitzmann edited his posts and removed the "insults". We don't like drama and that's ALL that would have been.

Lear chose to take that as some sort of cover up which, technically, I guess it is, but it's a cover up of adults acting CHILDISH to avoid wasted time on drama.

Lear is post banned, all he needs to do to post again is shoot us an email saying no problem, I am over it and he can post again.

Let me be CLEAR... Lear is pulling a stunt and it started that day while I was in NYC on business. He could have emailed me (like he did almost daily for over a year) about Ritzmann and Biedny's insults but he didn't, he started a public thread. He WANTS the drama, we don't, end of story.

To be honest, I listened to the opening bit of this video and knowing what I know (as MrWupy stated on page one) and knowing that Lear knows me, Dave and Johnny, knowing all the interaction he participated in on THIS site, DAILY, I know he knows he's talking smack. That makes me wonder what ELSE he knows he's just "talking smack" about.

I considered John a friend until he pulled this drama attempt and refused to get over it, or even be honest. I was FLOORED when I saw a message he sent that indicated he was "looking for a way out of ATS" just a few days prior to this all going down.

It's pure bunk and that's all there is to it.

Springer...





[edit on 5-4-2008 by Springer]

Springer...

That must really hurt deep down...

I'm not being sarcastic - it hurts when someone you thought was a friend dumps on you...

drink the green label and keep it real bro...

MSP

reply to post by more_serotonin_pls


You are so right, mere words can't describe it. Thanks for the kind words.

WRT "lubricating" the sting, I stick with the small batch bourbons, which, by the way, Lear has commented on in a snide and FALSE way more than once, the green label is good but just not my cup o' tea.

It's just a sad deal all the way around and the B.S. is getting deeper every time I read, hear or am told about it. Pitiful...

Springer...

Like Springer, et al, I spent some time sitting and talking with John Lear in person last year at the San Jose conference. As a fellow pilot and ATS enthusiast we dove into a few interesting sub-topics.

There is no doubt in my mind that he is an intelligent, entertaining, engaging, personable, gregarious and very knowledgeable individual.

He's also dead wrong on several key points (IMHO). Unfortunately, Mr. Lear has convinced himself he is more right about things for which he has only marginal or anecdotal evidence than those that may disagree with said 'evidence'. This is what got him into trouble.

Like others in this esteemed forum who have difficulty expressing themselves and their positions with diplomacy and perhaps a bit of savoir-faire, Mr. Lear became frustrated and instead resorted to condescension and ridicule.

The sad thing is that he clearly is a walking encyclopedia of fascinating first-hand experiences and he is now no longer in a position to share some of those directly with us.

As an esteemed admiral once screamed to a Navy pilot we all know: "...you're mind is writing checks your body (ego) can't cash." It seems that John Lear's ego got the best of him.

I watched John's new Camelot interview. Yes, there's a lot of the same stuff we've been reading about here, as well as a fair amount of unfair ATS-bashing and mostly conjectured 'theory' - some of which is so far out there I can only dream that it could not be possible.

One parting thought: If just a tiny fraction of what Lear says is true we're all in for a few big surprises...

I hope one day we'll get the rest of the story...

...or maybe I should hope we don't...

Good luck all - and keep looking up!

[edit on 5/4/2008 by Outrageo]

Gee Mark,
I am SO SORRY your being put through this ringer.
I am shocked at John's behavior here as I am SURE you are.....you know him pretty dang good and I bet you did not see this coming. Those who took him to be a very knowledgeable person did not see this coming either....sheesh.

I am sad for all the DRAMATICS........I am sorry that ATS lost an interesting conspiracy master...but at the same time if he is willing to go around saying things that are so BLATANTLY untrue it makes everything he was saying on this site suspect, and THATS what I am sorry about..........puts it all in a questionable light.

Dangit John you let us all down and made your self look bad while doing it....

reply to post by Charity


I always suspected JL to be full of it. Soul Catcher on the moon? Yeah, sure. The other planets using cloud cover to hide their existence? LOL

Originally posted by theRiverGoddess

I am sad for all the DRAMATICS........I am sorry that ATS lost an interesting conspiracy master...but at the same time if he is willing to go around saying things that are so BLATANTLY untrue it makes everything he was saying on this site suspect, and THATS what I am sorry about..........puts it all in a questionable light.

Dangit John you let us all down and made your self look bad while doing it....

In my opinion, John Lear had to say the things he did in order to cover his own behind. Lets face it, he went so far out on a limb he had to be called on it and he couldn't put up or shut up.

Either ATS was right for giving him the boot or ATS was out to get him. Those were his only two options.

If he admitted ATS was right to boot him, it would make him look like he was wrong, so it had to be our fault.

In order to maintain the world he lives in, He had to say we're the bad guys and were out to get him.

It's sad. He should of had more control of himself and the situation.

He has only himself to blame, but he won't do that. Instead he blames us.

I wish him peace in whatever or wherever his path takes him.

I like John Lear and will listen to what he has to say till the end. As for being a follower of those who put him down, not me. I read somewhere this Simon Gray guy is cloaked in suspicion beginning with his ATS founding days back in the 90s.

Hear Ye!, I draw my sword and demand John Lear be reinstated without sanction or further restriction.

Ya know, it seems famous people always have someone standing by to tear them down.

I'm sorry but I must say that I have read a lot of stuff on this site that is pretty damaging to 3 letter organization's credibility, and if it was being run to "sway public opinion" they are doing a horrible job.

I have never been censored in any way, and have posted things and replied to threads that would have "disappeared" if it was in fact being manipulated by COINTELPRO or any other black op.

I have never seen a thread "disappear" which says a lot in and of itself. John Lear has some theories that I know to be true. He also has some outlandish claims without a breath of evidence to back it up. He also seems to be a seriously high strung individual.

I am really glad I found this site, and have learned much important info. About 95% of the members here really are attempting to deny ignorance, about 5% have some serious issues, or are disinfo agents.

(Edited for drunkenness)

[edit on 4-5-2008 by downtown436]

Thanks for posting these videos here! I have my own ideas and such. However what I feel is for me alone, and only me.
We all have our own thoughts and feelings about this Earth that we are all a part of. Some of us are bigger players than others.
While words can go a long ways, I would like to remain silent on my feelings here. ATS has been a great release for me and my ideas.
John Lear has always been extreamly helpful to me personally, and have spend many times on the phone with him.
If I can say anything, John Lear is out here to open your minds. True or not, its expanding ones thought process. And he has taken the time to answer all your questions, spent countless hours on these forums, for you the members. Dont be so quick to judge the man, he has good intentions.
And thats all I wish to say..
Thanks.

Originally posted by Springer
I would imagine John Lear has a mouthful of sour grapes is all there is to this...

Not just Lear, but Bill and Kerry too.

Personally, to me it seemed like B&K had more of an axe to grind than John did (still sour over SERPO, maybe?). They're the ones injecting the C.I.A. accusations into the discussion. Sure Lear mentioned the "collection point" concept, but there's quite a few members who wouldn't be surprised at all to hear that agencies monitor ATS. Many here believe that all internet traffic is monitored (to some extent or another); so the idea wouldn't necessarily be a shocker. It's also Bill reading the "insider e-mail" (claiming mod sock puppet activity) while John's more concerned with how zany it was that Zorg lived down the street.

Honestly, Lear didn't seem to insult ATS as much as some would make it out to be. He merely seems miffed that the Upper Staff wanted to keep the "CM drama pageant" private. That part had me a bit puzzled though...

John is no stranger to personal attacks and forum drama (they generally roll off him like water on a duck); yet this instance really got under his skin. Why the big concern over airing the "dirty laundry" in public? Between finding the offending posts, and the offending CM fessing up to such behavior, John had basically been "vindicated" already. This leads me to believe that his concern with making things public has more to do with taking Ritz down a notch or two, than with being mad at ATS as a whole.

It would have been nice if John could have been the bigger man when SO received the confession, but I think the chance to publically stick it to Ritz blinded him from that option. It all just seems really unfortunate and silly now that things are all public anyways (even though they've been so for quite awhile). While I don't agree with all of John's theories; he always made for interesting reading.

reply to post by WorldShadow


Ok heres how it is. John Lear is only post banned, He could in theory make a comeback to ATS. Easily...

How do I know? Lemme just say I know what it's like to be BANNED BANNED. It took a while, it wasn't an easy decision by the amigos to let me back in. I had to realise that yes I messed up and I broke the T&C but after I realised what I did and appologised for it. I was let back in.

ACCOUNTABILITY...

Was it the Amego's fault that I was banned? NOPE whos fault was it? MINE. Once I admited that and aknowledged that I was allowed to come back.

Listen if John has credible evidence that this site is CONINTELPRO then by all means let him post his evidence. If however he has none and just is disgruntled by what went on here (heck thats between the Amigos and John) then it's his problem.

Hey this is Kthulu. I'm not sure why, but I couldnt log in with my normal account. Odd. I'd like to chalk it up to an accident, but now I see my last 2 posts here were ommitted. Why? they contained no foul language, or broke any rules. Did they? I would expect if they did someone would follow protocol and send me details about it.

I'm a bit curious as to whats truly going on here...

reply to post by khtulutoo


www.abovetopsecret.com...

Your last post in this thread...

Is that the last thing you said? Probably. If not please let us know what you were talking about...

This site generally runs well I have never seen a post completely deleted. I have seen a post removed by the staff but the post itself while edited was known to exist.

I don't know what is going on with your login information because as far as it's concerned your account is still active. Your last post is relevent to the topic and had no foul language. So there would be no reason that it would have been omited.

Yeah it must have been a hiccup. I got a mail giving me a new password, but I didn't ask for it. I'm back now.
My missing posts still worry me. Maybe the system had a problem. Its fixed now. I'll repost my comments tomorrow.

Gnight!

I rarely post on ATS, although I have been a regular visitor since it popped into existence (When it was a "normal cheap" website, using a free hosting service - about a zillion times better now though :p), sometimes I just post for fun or the one time I actually found some information out before anyone else said anything . But i do feel the need to comment on this...

The way I see it is that John Lear was being picked on by a few people, normally on ATS someone just posting something negative in a thread for the sake of being insulting results in one of those "courtesy edits" with the nice little signs, or before that it was a mod snip telling them to behave etc etc. But that hardly ever happened on a Lear thread...

He probably got sick and tired of it, and with this being a conspiracy site and him being a conspiracy nut decided that "the powers that be" had it in for him.. fair enough ive seen crazier ideas here on ATS.

Then when he decides to bring the fact hes being harassed and nouts being done about it - hes quickly silenced and then forced to apologise.. for being the victim!

Wouldnt it have been better to delete all the offending comments etc, and put in a little mod edit " Weve deleted these, they werent of an acceptable standard, appologies for any inconveniance caused - lets move on" rather than delete them, leave John thinking he was imagining things then demand an appology from HIM whilst telling the rest of us " yeah we deleted them but didnt really say anything, buts its all Lears fault! Because hes crazy and nobody likes John Lear anyway so who cares!?!"

And to be quite frank, it did seem like someone was out to get John Lear from the start. Ive seen stranger threads on this forum being treated with more respect!

" Someones drawing pictures and sticking them to my fridge! " - Real example, absoloutely no proof but the person wasnt hounded the way Lear was.

I wouldnt be surprised if someone comes around telling us his head blew up, grew back 3 times in a row ... and gets better treatment than John Lear.

Originally posted by redmage
It would have been nice if John could have been the bigger man when SO received the confession, but I think the chance to publically stick it to Ritz blinded him from that option.

Lets make one thing real clear.

I did NOT edit any posts. I did NOT lie about editing any posts. There was nothing to "confess" to. I made the statements, I never edited them.

However, someone did.

I thought it odd that SO emailed me to ask me if I said those things. I said of course, but wondered why he didn't just go look for himself.

Looking at the other thread, my comments as far as I can tell are exactly as I made them last time I looked. So, if I edited them to cover my a$$, why would I have edited them back. Thats ridiculous.

So, why they were supposedly edited, and who did it, I don't know. I can swear to any of you on everything you or I hold holy I did not edit out anything I said. I didn't lie to anyone about them either.

What went on I don't know, but I'll be damned if I'm going to be the pawn in this game.

So, make no mistakes about it, nothing was edited by me, and there was nothing to "confess" or "lie" about. I am FAR beyond pissed off to think someone edited posts in my name.