Scientists: We've found creator's tracks

reply to post by InterestedObserver


That's because you are looking for a creator, or rather evidence of one to prove evolutionists wrong. Evolutionists aren't looking for proof for, or against, a creator. They are looking for answers as to how it came to be, and the details of the process. This is why it bothers creationists so much. They believe they have the answer already so there is no reason to ask any questions, (it may even be against your "creator" to even ask questions). Evolutionists know they don't have the answers, or even all the questions for that matter, so they continue to search for those things.
I would make the argument that for us as species to not be inquisitive on these matters would be to go against our nature. Creationists can rail against science all they like, but like it or not, if everyone bought into this hoodoo thinking we would still be living in grass and mud huts. Except for me. I would be tied to a pole with other advanced like minded individuals, slowly roasting while people like you would be standing around singing "We shall overcome" .
But, I digress.
The "scientist" in this article, is, I dare say, not who he claims to be as far as his beliefs go, (as all Intelligent design theorists are). Naughty,naughty. Isn't lying supposed to be a sin?

reply to post by morthn1waytoskinacat


You make a lot of assumptions here. I first and foremost am a firm supporter of Evolution after creation. Evolution, however, does not explain abiogenesis. I believe in Intelligent creation. I do not believe in Intelligent Design in the sense that everything has an irreducible complexity, for that argument is extremely flawed. Do not assume that just because someone is a believer that there was a Creator means that they are Creationists.

reply to post by morthn1waytoskinacat


I totally agree with your take on the topic. Creationists have to justify the natural process by inventing the fact that there are Gods. I believe there is a God, it's called the Universe. Since creationists have no facts to produce on how intellegent life became on this planet - they do what....? Create!

Mans simple hallucinogenic mind gone wild! Clinging to myths and stories to undermine facts: fossils, etc. to fit their agena. This is a bit off topic but... If there is creationism... why do their creators servants tracks lead to a worldwide organization of pedifiles?? Why doesn't their God step in and get rid of this scurge of morality in their own pulpits??

Like you say, there is no way creationists can prove earth was spontaniously "poofed" here 6000 years ago when China itself dates back that far.... it's total nonsence and insults intelligence. With facts and evidence their theories fall apart like their pillars of salt.

reply to post by InterestedObserver


Whaaat?
You believe there was a creator, but you are not a creationist. That makes absolutley zero sense. Creators create. That's what they do. Intelligent design requires a designer.
Are you saying this creator you believe in didn't actually create anything, just designed stuff to create itself?
Perhaps "It" was just a creative consultant?
Your belief in evolution as "designed" by a creator, is still intelligent design theory, which has been correctly identified to be a repackaged version of creationism with cherry picked scientific facts to try and give it some validity, where there is none.
I for one, have a gut instinct that human evolution has been "tampered" with, but it wasn't by any god/s, and I'm not saying it was aliens either. Just that it has some unanswered questions. As for the rest of life on earth, evolution is a far more powerful argument based on factual, tangible evidence. Nothing sprang up fully formed. If that were true it would be happening all the time. It doesn't. It takes millenia or longer for mutations that are favourable to take hold and create new species.

reply to post by Level X


The real kicker is that up until 2000 years ago humans believed in hundreds if not thousands of dieties. Then, out of the blue the one true "GOD" pops up and says, "Hey guys, it was Me, I did it, aren't I super? Now go kill me a lamb or consider yourself smoten. While your at it, go kill everyone who doesn't believe in me, I love you all!" Sounds like friggin Ozzy Osbourne.
Anyway, back on topic......

Originally posted by morthn1waytoskinacat

Are you saying this creator you believe in didn't actually create anything, just designed stuff to create itself?

That is exactly it! A Creator of source designs matter to create itself; evolve.

This universe is like a cell, right alongside a source of countless universes. What we have done is createda cancer by participating with negative matter and therefore participate with negativity mentally.

I personally believe that this cancer is being cured.

You could also hypothesize that the solar system is shaped like an atom with the planets being electrons and the sun the nucleus but what is the evidence to support that? Delving into philosophical debate about the universe or god in general is not going to really help anything. It still doesn't prove anything to a scientific skeptic like myself. (no disrespect to you or or your beliefs)

-ChriS

[edit on 2-5-2008 by BlasteR]

Originally posted by morthn1waytoskinacat
reply to post by Level X

 

The real kicker is that up until 2000 years ago humans believed in hundreds if not thousands of dieties. Then, out of the blue the one true "GOD" pops up and says, "Hey guys, it was Me, I did it, aren't I super? Now go kill me a lamb or consider yourself smoten. While your at it, go kill everyone who doesn't believe in me, I love you all!" Sounds like friggin Ozzy Osbourne.

Anyway, back on topic......

Very few religions agree on everything but religion really isn't the problem it is the human tendency to be ignorant and irrational that leads to death in the name of "god". The simple fact is that humans have this aching desire to understand God and how everything, including them, came to be. That desire means that when people become devoutly religious or spiritual their beliefs become so devout that they will kill to protect it from other religious or spiritual ways of thinking. IMO, Due to countless religious and spiritual idaeologies which all contradict and never agree with each other is also proof positive that spiritualism is also a man-made creation which is bound to the same faults and imperfections of humankind that has resulted in countless wars and skirmishes throughout history that have been waged in the name of god.

I'm not saying that religion or spiritualism is evil but you can't ignore the facts. When you take a step back from yourself a moment and take in the horrors and death that have all been caused in the name of god you begin to see that not only are humans the cause for that same evil but humans are the ones responsible for those beliefs in the first place. If there is a god, why would god actually condone war and death by those trying to spread or otherwise prevent the spread of other spiritual ways of thinking (in the name of god).

Due to the inability of mankind, as a whole, to change ( or want to), the result is a society which will always eventually fight,kill, and squabble over religious and spiritual differences. Because of that, IMO, you have religions and spiritualist idaeologies which are blindly hypocritical and all have their own gods and prominent religious figures. Why not simply be able to believe in God without having to attribute religious connotations or otherewise attribute human characteristics to that God? It's like no matter where I go I get people knocking on my door trying to convert me. I hate that!

-ChriS

Originally posted by xnibirux
That is exactly it! A Creator of source designs matter to create itself; evolve.

There is/was no creator. Would you stop this and listen for a second. Everytime anyone says ther was a creator, then we begin the infinite regression of what created that creator? Who created that creator?

There is no creator. There is an immeasurable singularity. ONE ETERNITY. That means that space and time are eternal, there is no room for multiple universes, just one because it spans everything everywhere forever. Eternal universe. The word universe was meant to explain that but Einstein chose his words wrong. Instead it ended being interpretted as One-Whole, all turned into one and one song instead of One-Eternity. I guess he didn't realize that eternity is not a whole, it is one infinity (inronic eh? or he didn't realize the future implications of his wordage). Either that or it was all the big bang creationists around him that constantly swarmed and persuaded his mind that eventually crumbled him down. The eternal one works like this. It is everywhere, it is you and it is I. It had no beginning and will have no end, it has no creator and it has always existed. It constantly is in motion and its only static property is that it is always changing. It can not be moved because it is eternally expansive, thus it is not a relative object to anything but itself, therefore it is non-local and it can not be stopped because it never started. It has always been in evolution, there was never a start to it. It is a perpetuity of evolution and interchangability. It is everything that you see, touch, feel and experience, and it is the impervious logic of the eternal one. THAT is the universe. (and there is more, but for sake of ATS bandwidth I'll stop here.)

This universe is like a cell, right alongside a source of countless universes. What we have done is createda cancer by participating with negative matter and therefore participate with negativity mentally.

Oh, NO NO NO. Not this multiple universe stuff again. Where do you read this? What the bleep? Some whacko illogical fantasy writer that decides he wants to try his go at being a scientist? Yes, we have done it, but it was also the universe doing it to itself (we are the universe). Stop separating us from the environment for a second and see us as a part of the interconnected plan of planetary and universal happen. In non-locality (what I described above) there is no action and reaction, rather just a sempiternal happenning from nothing.

I personally believe that this cancer is being cured.

As far as the notion regarding the cancer of negativity being cured is concerned; I don't agree. I see things currently getting much worse and that is not a prophecy, it is an observation. I do my best to make better those around me, to share what knowledge that I have accumulated. The majority are not interested and they don't realize what their lack of interest permeates. This ignorance they carry with them everywhere and in their immediate surroundings they convey stupidity that multiplies like an incessant degradading bacteria.

[edit on 2-5-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Originally posted by morthn1waytoskinacat
reply to post by Level X

 

The real kicker is that up until 2000 years ago humans believed in hundreds if not thousands of dieties. Then, out of the blue the one true "GOD" pops up and says, "Hey guys, it was Me, I did it, aren't I super? Now go kill me a lamb or consider yourself smoten. While your at it, go kill everyone who doesn't believe in me, I love you all!" Sounds like friggin Ozzy Osbourne.

Anyway, back on topic......

The one true god thing has been going on for much longer than 2000 years if we are to believe history.



[edit on 2-5-2008 by _Phoenix_]

reply to post by InterestedObserver


Regarding your abiogenesis;

In physics it is well known on Earth to Humans that thus far life can not be created from "inanimate matter" spontaneously. Over time though, this inanimate matter can transmogrify through energetical metamorphosis, through the scientific, chemical and biological interactions of and causing decomposition, corrosion, and the likes etc. Through these natural processes this once inanimate matter can be rendered vivacious.

Here's one example: Iron is an inanimate metal, yet it is found in my blood stream and I am an animate Being. Is not everything that comprises my being then animate?

So, truly, what is inanimate when all living things consist of both animate and inanimate material? I suppose you could only refer to an element as inanimate in reference to its location while in an environment, such as an iron slab on a work desk relative to the iron that thrashes and circulates within the vesicles of my cardiovascular engined blood stream and ignoring that the Earth is a living organism itself and beyond that, that the universe is an eternal living organism.

P.s. morthn1waytoskinacat: It's a man crush, but you can still bring me roses My nose spasms at the aroma of botanics.

[edit on 2-5-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Remember all that the existence (or non-existence) of
any entity isn't in any way predicated on the conviction
(or non-conviction) of any other entity of the existence
in question.

Evolutionists aren't looking for proof for, or against, a creator

reply to post by morthn1waytoskinacat


Totally false statement! The materialist scientific establishment, openly state, that science must find only material answer to origins! "We must not let the devine foot in the door." is how one top scientist said it.

Creationists can rail against science all they like

It is a cadre of closed minded materialist that they rail against! People who will not even allow or consider the possibility of a creator!

Isn't lying supposed to be a sin?

Yes it is. So stop it!

reply to post by morthn1waytoskinacat


Who made you an historical religion expert? Obviously, you exalted yourself. Maybe you should head a cult and be its guru!

reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal


It's very interesting, that the Bible said that man was made of the dust of the earth. Is it not? The dust of the earth contains ALL the elements!
Now, how did Moses know that?
"there are none so blind, as those who will not see, and none so death, as those who will not hear."

Do you realise how much money the people promoting this junk siphon from "believers" year after year?

People that swallow this BS are saps.

The promoters are akin to second hand car dealers and estate agents, and the believers are their pay day, constant and reliable.

You don't really think most of the people (head honchos of the movement largely being millionaires - guess how?) promoting creationism and assorted junk actually believe in it themselves, do you?

[edit on 2-5-2008 by kegs]

Want to guess how much Kent Hovind was worth before he was sent to jail for tax evasion? A wealth made purely from fleecing the gullible?

Originally posted by Howie47
It's very interesting, that the Bible said that man was made of the dust of the earth. Is it not? The dust of the earth contains ALL the elements!
Now, how did Moses know that?

Yeah, let's not forget everything else that the Bible says. For one, it also states that we were created in the image of God, this is only half true, and in its essence it is an establishment of manipulation to get the masses to "behave". The real truth is that we are created both good and evil and have some illusion of choice, reason or purpose to choose what we want to be. We were not created in the image of God, and if we were, again that would mean that God was created from dirt and dust, and do you know what an image is? This would also mean that God is evil since we are evil and experience evil (which, well... could be argued to be true as well. Not such a nice man would flood the planet and murder all of its inhabitants after telling them that they have free will and then when they choose to not believe in him he decides to obliterate their civilization. Sorry, not the God that I know.) So God looks like a Human? Too many semantics and cumbersome logicalities to even try to deal with. We were also told that God took a rib out of Adam and made eve Gimme a break. If you're going to bring the Bible into this, don't forget that most of us scientists used to be religious, especially Christian and we are most likely well versed and well read in such scripture and logically so.

Also you claim that the dust of the Earth contains all the elements. As far as we know this is untrue. There are natrually occurring elements that are contained within the atmosphere and ecosphere of this planet. On other planets different elements may exist and naturally occur because of baromatric pressure and stronger forces of gravity under which there are a multitude of conditions present that vary from those which are present on our planet. The truth we just haven't explored every place yet to know if all existing elements have been discovered. It would be more accurate to say that all the elements of the Earth can be found on the Earth. It is not correct to say that every element in the universe is found naturally occuring on the Earth.

"there are none so blind, as those who will not see, and none so death, as those who will not hear."

Your scripture is pretty, but perhaps you should actually use it and listen to yourself and then the replies being reciprocated.

[edit on 2-5-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Originally posted by MannyKin
Remember all that the existence (or non-existence) of
any entity isn't in any way predicated on the conviction
(or non-conviction) of any other entity of the existence
in question.

Yeah it is and with that quote you just proved it to us. You're attempting to get people to believe in what you just said. In fatc it is the complete opposite of what you typed. Every entity of existence plays a purpose and a role for the purpose and role of every other entity, whether those entities are animate beings or inanimate objects or both.

Originally posted by Howie47
It's very interesting, that the Bible said that man was made of the dust of the earth. Is it not? The dust of the earth contains ALL the elements!
Now, how did Moses know that?

Really?

photos9.flickr.com...

*click*

[edit on 2-5-2008 by kegs]