We need to reform our education system

Originally posted by CA_Orot

I often wonder, why this was the only class like this?

I remember how eager I got and how good my grades suddenly got when projects and subjects of general value were taught.

And I would ask: "Why dont we do this more often?"

And the teacher would shrug: "Ask the government".

Your on the right tract I can't even get started on this and if it is ever going to change the people have to change it, stand together. Learning is being done completely incorrectly.

I am not a Teacher FYI

I disagree. I think indoctrination is a far better tool to creating good little worker bees than actually teaching them anything. There should be more political correctness in both school and the curriculum.

(Please note this is sarcasm)

We need to reform our education system?

Really??

TTFN

Reform is long past due.
When I went to school the whole class was always held back to the level of the least among us.
There should be separation based on ability and willingness to learn.
Most kids could finish the standard 12 years in about 8, and get on with the business of college or trade school.

I'm still trying to figure out how I am better off for knowing that England defeated the Spanish Armada in 1688.

A lot of our school system has become so rotten at its core that it does need a major overhaul in its theories, practice and content.

Theres a number of steps that need to be taken in order to help bring us back on track. I'll present my loosely ordered list and see what you think

Issue #1: First and foremost. You now have the potential again to FAIL. and let me circle and underline and put little stars next to FAIL a few times. We're going to set the bar back up where it should be, and if you can't make it, YOU FAIL, repeat until you get it. Im sure that some parents are going to be up in arms at teh prospect that little jimmy is going to end up with a job where his name is on his shirt, but the world needs ditch diggers too. Have some programs set up for tutoring, or let the parents hire one as well, but we're not dumbing down the class so someone doesn't feel retarded. maybe they just are.

Issue #2: Get the damn politicians out of the school system. By that, I mean the ones in charge of the national cirriculum. It should be up to educators and teaching professionals to be in charge of the how and when of kids learning, and set a minimum, not a trained pace. if kids are excelling, off to a special program they go for more education. Kick the damn politicians out. We don't need more experimental ideas liek natural spelling, we dont need tina has two mommies at 2nd grade, etc.

Issue #3: The instant continuation of recess in grade school as well as physical education. Exercise, unstructured outdoor activity, and so on. There will be rules such as games like tag or dodgeball can not be suppressed, etc.

Issue #4: The immediate dissolution of the tenure system for educators. This is to clear out the dead wood and open up spots for new educators. There are far too many lame duck teachers that are sitting on tenure and can't be fired unless they pretty much molest a student in public.

Issue #5: Zero tolerance for zero tolerance. This zero tolerance system will be immediately banned, and anyone wishing to reinstitute it will be subject to immediate dismissal.

Issue #6: There will be no regard given for special interest education before college. This means there will not be special classes for kids in regards to black or hispanic history. There will not be classes to push the gay agenda or womens issues, etc. you see where I'm going. If a teacher feels strongly about it, they may, at the discression of the school, offer non credit classes after school hours for these such classes, but they must be open to all district schools.

Issue #7: Music and art class: back in, nuff said

Issue #8: Preach morality before college, lose your job. That being, there will be no religious education outside of learning about other religions as part of the current task being learned, ie the crusades. Teach that christ, allah, bhudda is the supreme being, you're fired, period.

Issue #9: Highschool requirements: All students when entering high school will have classes on sexual education. furthermore, before graduating, there will be tests that must be passed with ah B or better on the constitution, state constitution (if applicable) bill of rights, and the workings of the government in general. some places have this all ready (i did) others do not.

Issue #10: Highschool: mandatory minimum of education level in the concepts of economics, literature, and vocational education. Yes, everyone should have at least one industrial ed. course.Simple concept. you teach a person to use the mind to the exclusion of their hands, then you only teach half a person.

Issue #11: all classes in english, only. no exceptions. unless its a foreign language class. If you can't speak english, then take an english a a second language course. Remember, winners and losers.

Issue #12: no respect given in regards to religion, etc in subjects. That means, if someone objects to the theory of evolution because they want to believe the flying spaghetti monster created everything.. tough! pull you kid from the public school system and teach them yourself... but, you still have to teach them it.

Issue #13: the institution of a standardized homeschooling cirriculum and ordinances. meaning, there will be a uniform code and process to take your child from teh public school system and homeschool them. at the same time, you will be responsible for their education levels and they will be tested, or, kid goes back to school, no ifs ands or buts.

thats one portion of it all, but my hands are tired and thats enough for you all to digest for now.

As a teen, I think my friends and I are giving ourselves up to the New World Order. When I say this to them they just called me "Stupid". What's so stupid? The ignorant is stupid.

When i first entered high school i remember the Ontario school boards wanted to change the cirriculum. In fact they did so every semester i was in school untill grade 11. This turned out to be a giant mess. The success rate of those a few years ahead of us was ok, as was the success rates of those who came about 4-6 years later. Our particular age group took a hit however, we had about a 40% dropout rate and of those who stuck it out only about 80% of those graduated. Most of my friends from back then still havent finished high school to this day. I finished in an adult education program which employed retired teachers and college professors making some side money. The program was way better than high school.

Bottom line the govt had failed for around 6 years of kids in high school by massive alterations to the cirriculum. They still continued using the books but they added tons of useless courses, took away shop programs, cut back on physical education programs. Every semester we went in it seemed they wanted to teach us something else and didnt want to continue where we left off from the previous semester. Most of us couldnt keep up and zero tolerancle policies made short work of those who didnt conform. ANd for those who were struggling there was absolutely no help and the system just let those kids slide. There were many strikes and student walkouts during those years as i recall.

These days we seem to have alot of problems in our city with crime and poverty. The majority of people who were affected by this are the people in and around my age group. Most people i grew up with are either in jail, drug addicts, poor, un-educated. I would have to say that only a small handful of people i went to school with became successful and i think this is due to the tinkering they were doing with the school systems at the time as none of the other age groups seem to be affected as badly by this.

reply to post by CoffinFeeder


Impressive post Coffin Feeder. While some detail points are up for discussion, I agree with the overall "feel" of it. Lets hope them some people in positions of responsibility get to read ideas like this.

Bottom line: Get rid of PC-culture and get real.

I agree that we have to shift a bit of emphasis to play, movement, recess, music and arts.

Because if we dont we´ll have even more people in dull, grey apathy than we already have

Anybody have any idea who the people ultimately responsible for our curriculum are?

Ok, I'll toss in my opinion. This will be mostly from my perspective, as I am still in school.

1) Our high school has very little funding. Other than fixing a leak in the roof, our school really hasn't seen any serious repairs as far as structure goes since it was built in 1965. It basically is just a run-down shack. The bathrooms are dirty, and the school is not kept clean for the most part. What kid wants to spend 6+ hours a day in a dirty, stinky, run-down, old building?

2) The content is boring. Teachers don't put enough heart in their jobs to do what they can to make things interesting. I mean, there is only so much you can do, but it's starting just to get rediculous. Lessons are long, drawn out, and boring, and at the end of the class you think "what the hell was the point of that?" As stated previously, there are many different types of learners, and I feel that there has not been enough effort to try and teach so that the different types will have a better understanding. My school can't afford field trips, so we can't get that hand on experience that some may need.

3) There are 3 schools in the county I live in, and my school is the smallest. The two bigger schools could be appropriately described as spoiled. The county has chosen to spoil the larger schools, leave the small one on the outside in need, and then with remaining tax dollars, they decide to 'fix' roads that don't need to be fixed. They have their books payed for, while each year of school, my mom and I have to pay upwards of 200$ for them. They have new facilities, and we are out dated, and running out of room to have more students in the school.

I could go on, but this should do for now. Remember, this is just from my personal experiences in school.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
If our world is flawed we need to look at where it all began: In the way we were educated as children.

3. The subjects need to be slightly shifted from the unimportant to the important-for-life subjects.

The subjects of

Communication

Finances & Money

Body & Health

Relationships, Love, Sexuality

and handling Media, Internet etc.

Good post, but we are forgetting the No.1 educator for kids: PARENTS or the lack thereof.

It all begins with the smallest cell of society: the family. The world is a mess because kids are not brought up correctly by their parents. All the subjects mentioned above should be regular curriculum at home!

I'll try and avoid the points already raised. These are the things I believe need changing:

- This blanket curriculum, adherable to by everyone, needs to go. Kids should be given equal opportunity, but simultaneously it should be recognised that kids aren't equal - niether in ability or in aptitude and interest. Some children are immensely creative, some have a fantastic understanding of science. I don't know how this works in the US, but here in the UK, children are forced to participate in all areas of learning equally until the age of 16. Teach them good strong basic young, and then identify where they differ and allow those strengths to be emphasized and nurtured.

- Culture. I believe that one of the reasons ancestral culture in the West is dying is simply because there is absolutely no importance placed on it in schools. In fact, I believe that my education actively avoided teaching me about my heritage and my country's history. I learnt almost nothing about the Saxons or the Celts (who are almost wholly responsible for the names of the days of the week and other important festivals) but instead was forced to dwell on WW1 and WW2 most of the time.

- Religion. My religious education, always taught by Christians, focussed exclusively on the Judeo-Christian religions and occassionally on Hinduism and Buddhism. Pretending that religion is 2-3000 years old is NOT religious education.

There's more but I'll leave it at that for now.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by RabbitChaser

 

A few basic guidelines (such as reading and speaking englilsh) have to be fulfilled by the parents. So if not governmental schooling we´ll at least need some mandatory ability-tests.

Agreed. I think the 'home school' choice is certainly a difficult option for most parents, whether due time constraints or the lack of education themselves to even give their child a good 'base.'

But the key is getting the government out of the system and giving the parents choices. More of a 'free-market' school system, which *should* lead to higher quality education for the youth of America.

Originally posted by Cythraul

- Religion. My religious education, always taught by Christians, focussed exclusively on the Judeo-Christian religions and occassionally on Hinduism and Buddhism. Pretending that religion is 2-3000 years old is NOT religious education.

If there´s a reform we probably won't be able to get rid of that just yet.

But schooling in, lets say 300 years, will certainly involve a more flexible type of schooling in any subject. "Religion" will be taught as exploring the many different ways to see the world and the universe and not just following one single agenda.

Same goes for "history". Current "history" is all about who won which war...but history is more than war and certainly more than the VERSION of history by those who won the wars.

reply to post by RabbitChaser


The emphasis being on CHOICE. It makes little sense to make home-schooling mandatory but at least we should all have a choice in the matter.

Of course.

But the current powers that be dont seem to grasp the concept of CHOICE and how it empowers people.

reply to post by wisefoolishness


And thats what makes this issue a No.1 priority imo....before anything else.

I am a young mother, so it really concerned me.

States are deciding what kind of education our kid should have. my
grandmother told me that they fought to remove the power of the
church out of the educational system because they were endoctrinate
children on their belief without parent's approval.

Now '' the State '' replace the church but it is not better, parents still do not
have the liberty to choose the kind of education our kids will have, it is
imposed and it do not fit with family's values.

Peace

reply to post by Lara Croft Peaceful World


First it was the church then the state. They wont leave our children alone, will they?

They cant. Because if they stop telling us what to think and how to see things, we will start thinking for ourselves.

I care a lot about our education system but I don't know the people in charge, who to talk to about this.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

 

The emphasis being on CHOICE. It makes little sense to make home-schooling mandatory but at least we should all have a choice in the matter.

Agreed. And to clear it up, as it seems it is how you read it... no where did that quote say anything about homeschooling being mandatory. That is surely a very bad idea.

We need to give parents and students the freedom to pursue the education of their choice- just as my wife and I do by choosing to home-school our 4 children.

"... freedom to pursue the education of their choice" -- He chooses to homeschool. I just wanted to make sure that was clear.

[edit on 4/24/2008 by RabbitChaser]