The Chemtrail Myth

Originally posted by neformore

Its not a stalemate at all. How can it be a stalemate when the meteorologists and aviation enthusiasts have presented such a compelling case that these things are a myth, and all the chemtrailers can come up with is that they see planes and there are "lines in the sky". You can't use "black ops" to back up your debate because, to be frank, you have no idea if thats the case.

Aviation enthusiasts are experts in this field? There is enough evidence in recent history that there are government projects including cloud seeding, [and just how in the world are prescription drugs being introduced into our water supply], that it's very likely that there is block ops projects underway? I'm not saying it is from Chemtrails but there is no evidence here saying that there are No black ops occurring.

I'd say that as debates go looking at the split experts/chemtrailers its a 95/5 score to the experts, with the 5 for the chemtrailers coming from cloud seeding and admitted experimental testing

Thats no stalemate, its a resounding victory.

Yes sir the key words you use are Admitted Experimental testing and cloud seeding!! I'll give it 60/40 favoring the Chemtrailers.

Quotes aside, I used the doctors as AN EXAMPLE of a point. Sidestep this all you like, but the point stands firmly.

Science? Science is NEVER FINISHED. Medicine is A SCIENCE.

(Why do the moderators here remind me so much of the trolls on Digg? Surely it's just my vast imagination....)

As for my allergies...well, I used the SCIENCE of consciousness, not the SCIENCE of medicine, to completely CURE them. No doctor aided me in this (just an old lady in Napa) and they were cured *overnight* several years ago. (I admit I needed surgery to 'cure' the other, though.)

I have never spent a dime (outside of a camera I needed anyway) on chemtrails. The 'making-money' angle is simply ridiculous and about the most common excuse I hear given for 'conspiracy theories'. If you want to talk money, let's talk about the elite usurping this country since 1913. THERE'S your money-makers. Let's talk about the very real history of eugenics in this country (and how Hitler used our scientists as models for his own agenda in the area).

Don't tell me nobody wants to kill anybody when history has so much more to say about the subject than you ever will.

That said, I don't think chemtrails are to kill us...They (with a capital 'T') could do that any number of ways. I think they are part of the grand scheme known as 'global warming' and a tool in controlling public opinion...like some of you.

Good luck. (Not really.)

reply to post by Brapman


Consciousness is not a science but a state.

And there is no evidence for chemtrails. None what so ever. Apart, of course, the usual ramblings lacking any substantiating evidence.

Again we have a not-very-easy-to-understand phenomenon being interpreted by people in a way that makes sense to them. It worked for the folks writing the Bible, and now it's working for you believers.

If God exists, the greatest gift he gave us was our minds. It's a terrible shame to not use them and believe anything that makes sense to you, regardless of whether there's evidence to back it up. Terrible indeed.

Originally posted by dave420
reply to post by Brapman

 

Consciousness is not a science but a state.

You can't study consciousness? Wow, you seem to be ignoring a large part of particle physics all in one statement.

Maybe you should go smoke another, dude.

reply to post by LDragonFire


LDragon....I am not just an 'aviation enthusiast', as you put it.

I am a retired AIRLINE PILOT! I actually kept your ass safe, I and I and my 'cohorts'....over all of the years you flew, and apparently survived!

To make a point!.....there is NO WAY that commercial airplanes are 'spraying' chemicals!!

It is true nonsense!!!

It is BALONEY! It is crap!

WHY would a government, any government, wish to let the various winds dictate their 'spraying' attempts??????

If you want to spray on someone, you do it from a low altitude....not at 35,000 feet!!!

Come on, put your logical hats on, if just for a few minutes!!!

FOLKS....chemtrails are bunk!! It is BS!!!!!

Try to go learn about meteorology, just a start....and after your education, you can come back to ATS to ...hmmmm.....deny ignorance!!!

WW

reply to post by weedwhacker


And with our thinking hats on... wouldn't a spraying campaign at low altitude make it even more obvious? I'm not claiming "obvious enough for you" but... And doesn't it depend on exactly WHAT the spraying is inteded for also?

Chemtrails are right in front of your eyes, but if it can't be what it looks like, I guess your gonna have to come up with a different explanation. Your doing great on that point.

[edit on 23-4-2008 by Cade]

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by LDragonFire

 

LDragon....I am not just an 'aviation enthusiast', as you put it.

I am a retired AIRLINE PILOT! I actually kept your ass safe, I and I and my 'cohorts'....over all of the years you flew, and apparently survived!

To make a point!.....there is NO WAY that commercial airplanes are 'spraying' chemicals!!

The government has admitted to experiments. How would you know? I'm a cook at a 4 star hotel, I have to use sauces and other food items that I personally don't prepare, can I guarantee that these sauces are good? No I must assume they are because I'm not present when they are prepared, So just because you sit in the cockpit doesn't mean you know anything else about what is happening to and on your aircraft.

It is true nonsense!!!

It is BALONEY! It is crap!

Every one has a opinion, and my opinion right now is that prozac is good.

WHY would a government, any government, wish to let the various winds dictate their 'spraying' attempts??????

If you want to spray on someone, you do it from a low altitude....not at 35,000 feet!!!

Your assuming I know what there purpose or goal is regarding these Experiments, I don't.

Come on, put your logical hats on, if just for a few minutes!!!

FOLKS....chemtrails are bunk!! It is BS!!!!!

Try to go learn about meteorology, just a start....and after your education, you can come back to ATS to ...hmmmm.....deny ignorance!!!

WW

Most meteorologist I'm aware of spend most of there time in online forum's telling people they are crazy and other nice adjectives. Like being a weatherman gives you some kinda know it all card.

I will state this again the Government has admitted to atmospheric Experiments, and it's been said there are ongoing operations.

My father built aircraft so I have always had a interest in observing them, and I have personally seen unmarked 4 engine planes spraying something that did not behave like a normal contrail, I know it wasn't normal because at the time there where Normal contrails in the sky at the time.

I personally feel it's more to do with weather manipulation, but these chemicals could have a adverse affect on our environment and our health.

reply to post by LDragonFire


LD....'most' meteorologists??????

One or two are trying their very best to educate you people!!

'most' meteorologists???!!?!?!?!

What kind of warped world do you live in??

Sorry, nonsense needs to be called out!

If someone says 'Most' meteoroligists are here on ATS, then I guess you'd have to agree that 'Most' pilots are here on ATS at the SAME TIME!!!

It is abnormally stupid, to assume such a thing!!

Please, don't allow another lie on the Internet!!!!

There are far too many, so far...

WW



[edit on 4/23/0808 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by LDragonFire

 

LD....'most' meteorologists??????

One or two are trying their very best to educate you peolple!!\

'most' meteorologists???!!?!?!?!

What kind of warped world do you live in??

Sorry, nonsense needs to be called out!

I agree and lets do add what I really said:

Originally posted by LDragonFire
Most meteorologist I'm aware of spend most of there time in online forum's telling people they are crazy and other nice adjectives. Like being a weatherman gives you some kinda know it all card.

If someone says 'Most' meteoroligsts are here on ATS, then I guess you'd aved to agree that 'Most' pilots are here on ATS at the SAME TIME!!!

It is abnormnally stupid, to assume such a thing!!

Please, don't allow another lie on the Internet!!!!

There are far to many, so far...

WW

Hmmm did you not read what I posted or are you having problems comprehending what I posted?

Really though can we stay on topic and not be so heated?

I think Chemtrail are real, and nothing posted here so far has changed my opinions. and this sort of stuff won't do it either:

Originally posted by weedwhacker


It is abnormally stupid, to assume such a thing!!

Please, don't allow another lie on the Internet!!!!

There are far too many, so far...

Are you calling me stupid and a lier? Because I don't share the same opinion about this topic?

[edit on 23-4-2008 by LDragonFire]

[edit on 23-4-2008 by LDragonFire]

Originally posted by LDragonFire
So just because you sit in the cockpit doesn't mean you know anything else about what is happening to and on your aircraft.

Do you think that for real?

I think you have your obtusing practiced to a fine art.

Most meteorologist I'm aware of

There are, at last count....two meteorologists here doing an excellent job of trashing the chemtrail myth. If that's "most" of the meteorologists you're aware of.....I suppose your general awareness of anything could be called into doubt.

[edit on 23-4-2008 by MrPenny]

Originally posted by LDragonFire
My father built aircraft so I have always had a interest in observing them, and I have personally seen unmarked 4 engine planes spraying something that did not behave like a normal contrail, I know it wasn't normal because at the time there where Normal contrails in the sky at the time.

Did he build you a radar system to give you the heights of the planes?

You see, 5280 feet is a mile. Thats a long way in terms of atmosphere with respects to vapour layers, temperatures and saturation points. Its entirely possible to see two jets that are a mile apart in terms of height where one is producing a trail and one isn't.

Looking at objects on the ground, when you have a good idea of landmarks and distances makes it relatively easy to judge distances. Looking at something in the sky where there is absoultely no point of reference means that judging distance is very difficult. If something is flying a few hundred feet away and you are relatively familiar with different aircraft sizes then, yes, you'd be able to call it, but there really is no way anyone can judge from the ground whether a plane is flying at 25,000 feet (4.7 miles) and 30,000ft (5.6 miles).

Again - i'm sorry to say it - but here you are basing your idea on what you think you know rather than what you actually do. The seperation could be there - the conditions at different heights and in different parts of the sky could very well be different.

Originally posted by dave420
And there is no evidence for chemtrails. None what so ever. Apart, of course, the usual ramblings lacking any substantiating evidence.

Yes there is, just look up !

They are referred to as chemtrails for lack of a better word.

Could be trails of something besides chemicals, like elementals, etc

reply to post by neformore


neformore, it is true that 5,280 feet is a mile....a 'Statute' mile

A Nautical Mile is 6,060 feet.

A 'Knot' is defined as 'one mile per hour'.....BUT that is based on a Nautical Mile!!!!

Please do not confuse modern attempts to manage 'quantity' and 'speed' with old standards!!!

We have the 'metric' system...we have the old 'Engilsh' system.....and we have the 'nautical' system....do NOT confuse the various systems!!!

See? THIS is only one way, to confuse and distort the facts......

WW

Originally posted by interestedalways

Originally posted by dave420
And there is no evidence for chemtrails. None what so ever. Apart, of course, the usual ramblings lacking any substantiating evidence.

Yes there is, just look up !

They are referred to as chemtrails for lack of a better word.

Could be trails of something besides chemicals, like elementals, etc

Or they could just be ice crystals as people who actually study such things have been saying for decades .....

Originally posted by neformore

Originally posted by LDragonFire
My father built aircraft so I have always had a interest in observing them, and I have personally seen unmarked 4 engine planes spraying something that did not behave like a normal contrail, I know it wasn't normal because at the time there where Normal contrails in the sky at the time.

Did he build you a radar system to give you the heights of the planes?

No he didn't but he did teach me to identify aircraft [mostly military aircraft] by there silhouettes, and how to estimate their altitude. This is just a estimate and not scientific fact by any stretch.

You see, 5280 feet is a mile. Thats a long way in terms of atmosphere with respects to vapour layers, temperatures and saturation points. Its entirely possible to see two jets that are a mile apart in terms of height where one is producing a trail and one isn't.

Agreed, but the ones I'm referring too were at approximately at the same altitude but separated by several miles, and I will state right now, yes their could have been different atmospheric differences based on their locations. All I know is what I saw, it was a clear sunny day other than the visible contrails that were quickly evaporating, but the chemtrail I saw did not dissipate, instead it spread out till it covered about a quarter of the visible sky.

Looking at objects on the ground, when you have a good idea of landmarks and distances makes it relatively easy to judge distances. Looking at something in the sky where there is absoultely no point of reference means that judging distance is very difficult. If something is flying a few hundred feet away and you are relatively familiar with different aircraft sizes then, yes, you'd be able to call it, but there really is no way anyone can judge from the ground whether a plane is flying at 25,000 feet (4.7 miles) and 30,000ft (5.6 miles).

The two planes I'm speaking about were roughly the same altitude because they were about the same size, both were large aircraft, one was a 747 the other I don't know, possibly a c-130 but I'm thinking it was a tanker plane, and it could have been dumping fuel, I don't know.

Again - i'm sorry to say it - but here you are basing your idea on what you think you know rather than what you actually do. The seperation could be there - the conditions at different heights and in different parts of the sky could very well be different.

I have no intention of proving chemtrails are true, frankly I'm not a scientist, just attempting to discuss this in a civil manner.

Originally posted by jpm1602
I don't appreciate getting gang jumped by essan, oz, gel on every chemtrail post.

From the terms and conditions:


2d.) Forum Gangs: You will not engaged in an organized collaboration with other members to disrupt thread topics or interrupt the flow of normal collaborative discussion. Doing so will result in immediate termination of posting privileges.


There was even a post ( I can find it if needed) where weedwacker even said "you won't listen to Me or Oz, of GEL, or essan" as if they are all one.

And another common occurance by certain members

1h.) Spamming: You will not post identical content, or snippets of identical content, to multiple threads in the discussion forums. You will also not create more than one thread for your topic, or create multiple "slightly different" threads for a single topic.

This last one touches on the names being given to those who are referred to as "chemtrailers"

2) Behavior: You will not behave in an abusive, hateful and/or racist manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack anyone.

Being called paranoid delusionist, ignorant, nutcase jobs, stupid, etc would fall under the attack part of this part of the T&C




[edit on 23-4-2008 by interestedalways]

To back up the internet gang activity and the disruptive posting please take the time to read page one of this link.

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

I think it is a good example and the names of those same posters have been mentioned twice recently, by a member who felt ganged up upon as well as by weedwacker

hmmmm
Oz, Issan , weedwacker,
you guys almost had me convinced.

contrails?
and I guess Our elite leaders love and care about us too
and the N.W.O does not exist.
and I also guess that the official 911 explanation
is all true and that all the muslims of the world want to kill us all
and that the "war on terror" is legitimate.

I could go on but here is a giant list of links that contain tons of
really good info and pics and tons more links to go with them.


www.carnicom.com...
www.worldaffairsbrief.com...
portland.indymedia.org...
contrailscience.com...
www.rense.com...
www.chycho.com.../1594
www.pej.org...
www.carnicom.com...
www.greatdreams.com...
www.loveforlife.com.au...
educate-yourself.org...

if there is no chemtrail conspiracy then just what are all these people talking about??

reply to post by interestedalways


I have never engaged in any discussion in deliberate concert with other members. I simply try to deny ignorance by passing on genuine facts which refute the lies perpetrated by some other websites etc and the miscomprehensions (as I see it) of some other members - and impart some of the genuine knowledge that I have obtained over many years of study in various subjects, including meteorology.

Is that a crime?

And besides. Who here tries to hide their identity? Not me

Seriously?

Please leave me out of this. I have NEVER called anyone names or ganged up on anyone. I am posting on this thread just like anyone else. I am voicing my opinions, just like everyone else. I gave witness to someone's profession and now I'm being accused of ganging up on people?

My God.

I am sure that if anyone is breaking the board rules, the MODs will gladly step in and say so. MODS???

Until then, please leave me out of everyone's bickering with each other.

[edit on 23-4-2008 by greeneyedleo]