UK Libertarian Party

Just found this new party in the UK, who want to abolish income tax and restore the Bill of Rights 1689. Not sure how well this new party will do, but I think it can make a impact because there are many libertarians in the UK.

Libertarian Party

reply to post by infinite


Has the UK ever been without taxes? In recent history, that is.

They don't teach us that kind of stuff here in the US (lame, I know).

Income Tax was introduced during the Napoleonic wars (1803 - 1815), to pay for it, and it was only meant to be a short-term Tax.

[edit on 14-4-2008 by infinite]

reply to post by infinite

Income Tax was introduced during the Napoleonic wars (1803 - 1815), to pay for it, and it was only meant to be a short-term Tax.

Taxes? Always. 2 Certainties. Death and Taxes. We spend a lot of mental energy on ways to either lower taxes or to avoid taxes. Some even urge giving up taxes altogether and I suppose they would turn the world over to GOD. But none of that is likely to happen. For one, there is a very good chance GOD doesn’t want it! In the last 400 years, we have nearly wrecked the planet!

Regressive versus progressive. Most American states have conned their citizens into adopting the MOST regressive tax ever - the retail sales tax. Equal in its dastardly consequences to the tax on bread imposed in France in 1789. The sales tax is the FIRST cousin to the FLAT tax. As offered here in the 1980s it amounted to a Federal sales tax. Now those same hucksters have renamed it the FAIR tax. I feel confident we can pronounce Rest In Peace to the unfair FAIR tax.

Grant me the US Federal budget is $3 t. About half of that outlay is in social security and Medicare payments. Entitlements. Each of those programs has it own dedicated tax base. Both programs have ALWAYS been in the black. (However it was always intended that between 25% and 50% of Medicare was to be paid out of the General Fund). That means ALL of the Federal or National Debt is attributable to a shortfall in tax revenues for ALL OTHER expenses of the Federal Government.

The second largest expense item in the Federal budget is the Department of Defense. But the DoD is NOT all the cost of WAR. We must add in the DVA. Department of Veterans Affairs. About $45 b. a year and that amount is short of need by $30 b. per the Disabled American Veterans, DAV. If DoD outlays are equal to 40% of the non-entitlement side of the budget - I believe it is - then that percent of the National Debt is also a WAR item. To get the REAL cost of WAR, we must add DoD, DVA and a proper percent of National Debt interest payments. Hey, you’re looking at about $1 t. a year. For WAR. Thank you GOD that we are such a peace loving country!

Interest on the National Debt is the 3rd largest expense item. At about 4%+ on $7 t. plus, that comes to around $350 b. per year. Personal income taxes furnish about 80% of Federal revenues, so one can conclude this National Debt represents an UPWARD redistribution of wealth, assuming the R&Fs hold most of the US Bonds. Rich and Famous. Taking from the poor and giveing to the rich. A downward redistribution - tax the rich - raises the IRE of so many posters it is remarkable they never seem to mention the REAL shift in the tax burden that is taking place every day in the US of A.

Example: The US overspends its income by $400 b. If our current citizenry were the equal of the Greatest Generation - they are not - the country would be collecting a WAR on TERROR tax to keep the country’s finances sound. NO falling dollar, and etc. NO $110 per barrel of crude oil prices. Which by the bye has had a secondary effect on the price of food putting in imminent danger of starvation perhaps 1 billion people, the poorest of course. People of color. Hmm?

Ever rising Federal debt added to the preventable mortgage meltdown spells doom for a billion people outside the US. Hey, we PRAY for them every Sunday. Aside: I still recall this little ditty I learned in Sunday School around age 4-5. "Red yellow black and white, they are precious in His sight; Jesus loves the little children of the world!" Maybe Jesus will feed the little children after all? Wow!

Instead, the US lays on HUGE tax cuts for the RICH. The rich in turn buy those BONDS issued to fund expenses now part of the debt. Now the rich have the best of both worlds! They did not pay the taxes they should have paid, and they take that money to buy the bonds issued to pay the bills. They earn interest on their money. They pass those bonds on to their children. The children of the POOR will be obliged to pay off those bonds. Instead of building better schools or improving the health care system. Sweet Jesus! The next generation of RICH kids will have one MORE leg up on the rest of us. A generational shift in current obligations! A stroke of genius.

Conclusion. I have dwelt on taxes in this discourse because it is my belief that the underlying motive for Libertarianism is opposition to taxation. Many times you’ll hear Libertarians couch their advocacy in SMALLER government terms - without suggesting just how small. It is easily understood that smaller government ipso facto means FEWER government funded programs, i.e., smaller staffing and less taxes. In other posts I have (in jest) describe Libertarians as Anarchists in drag!

[edit on 4/14/2008 by donwhite]

Originally posted by infinite
there are many libertarians in the UK.

How do you know? I haven't seen any polls that suggest even a significant minority of people class themselves as libertarians. In fact, I would wager that if you asked most people if they were libertarian they wouldn't know what it entailed.

reply to post by Ste2652


Well, yes, you make a point.

But some of the policies may apply to a significant amount of people.

reply to post by infinite


Yes, I think some libertarian policies would be popular (as they have been in the past. Bits of Thatcherism are very libertarian, and she was never defeated in a general election)... but I can't see anyone winning on a purely libertarian ticket.

reply to post by Ste2652


It would be difficult,
but it shall be interesting to see how this new party performs at the local elections (if they are standing)

The following is an excerpt from the manifesto, which I believe is a highly evocative line:

Welfare was envisaged as being a safety net, not the hammock it has become.

I agree 100% with every single policy of this party... but Im not yet sure whether voting for them is a wasted vote or not.

There's some intereting discussion going on over at the pary's forums., which are located at: www.lpuk.org...


These people the right idea. Pointless bureaucracy has always boggled my mind, and we certainly don't need more of it.

For those who are interested, the Libertarian Party are standing at the Henley by-election. It will be interesting to see how they do in their first election test.

One problem. Henley is a Tory safe seat.