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Why Muslims should be treated with more respect

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posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 04:49 PM
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Originally posted by pause4thought
People claiming to represent Christianity or Western civilization have perpetrated unbelievable heinous crimes against Muslim nations throughout history. It should never have happened, and the legacy is a deeply divided world.

The 'Crusades' (I cringe to even use the word) were sold as a virtuous conquest of the Holy Land. I believe words such as 'conquest', 'victory' and 'glory' in relation to warfare are grotesque. Whether by sword or missile slaughter of other people should turn the stomache of any civilized human being....


You do realize that violent conquest and enslavement has been perpetrated in the name of Islam for well over 1,000 years, right? There are calls for conquest in the Koran, for Allah's sake!

The only reason I can give as to why anybody should treat Muslims with any respect is out of concern for one's personal safety. Those lunatics will behead you if you trash their faith.




posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 05:03 PM
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reply to post by FeedMeACat
 


If you reexamine the last sentence of mine that you quoted you'll notice it includes the word 'sword'. I am saying that killing in the name of either religion should turn the stomach.


The only reason I can give as to why anybody should treat Muslims with any respect is out of concern for one's personal safety.

That is the type of attitude that prompted me to start this thread. Hundreds of millions of ordinary men, women and children refer to themselves as Muslims, yet are no threat to any of us. They are peaceable, decent human beings. If we allow the actions of extreme radical islamists to blur the distinction between the ordinary, decent people and themselves we actually help them achieve their aim: to whip up hatred that can lead to conflict.

The masses that make up the populations of places like Tehran are no less deserving of respect than western people, and they have certainly done nothing to deserve becoming cannon fodder any more than the populations of Washington D.C. or London.



[edit to correct typo]

[edit on 16/8/08 by pause4thought]



posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 05:15 PM
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reply to post by pause4thought
 


i will tell you something my grandad told me

you can live with none muslims and you can fight and die
fighting at their side in war but they wont give you any respect or see you as equals,

some posters just show thats true



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 01:37 AM
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Originally posted by bodrul


up to people if they read the full surahs in the quran then nit pick
and having to reply to the same nit picked quotes many times on ATS

i have said i will keep out of topics or stop replying to topics if people just do that.

edit:

and yes you can provide links to dispute that
but how much should i bet that those links would have the same words but reorganised or nit picked from the quran to the agenda of the site?

[edit on 16-8-2008 by bodrul]



Of course you don't like people cherry picking verses from the Quran, you like to do your own cherry picking and give us the "sanitized" version.

Infact Mohammed war strategy was made very clear :

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 220:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "I have been sent with the shortest expressions bearing the widest meanings, and I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy), and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand."

003.151
YUSUFALI: Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the Fire: And evil is the home of the wrong-doers!

008.012
YUSUFALI: Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."

See also verses: 33:26. - 33:27. - 59:2.

008.039
YUSUFALI: And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily Allah doth see all that they do.


For a God and his prophet to go round bragging about the terror they instil in the heart of the unbelievers seems to me pretty revolting.



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 01:47 AM
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Originally posted by pause4thought

That is the type of attitude that prompted me to start this thread. Hundreds of millions of ordinary men, women and children refer to themselves as Muslims, yet are no threat to any of us. They are peaceable, decent human beings. If we allow the actions of extreme radical islamists to blur the distinction between the ordinary, decent people and themselves we actually help them achieve their aim: to whip up hatred that can lead to conflict.



A worthwhile but in my view useless exercise, Islam has been hijacked by radicals and the influence of militant Islam is growing .

Today in the Muslim world, homicide bombers are heroes and their mothers are compared with the holiest of women in the Muslim history....

Islamic radicals have been using Quran and Prophet's life to justify their criminal acts with impunity. Some religious scholars have been describing homicide bombers in Palestinian Authority as Mujahideen (holy warriors) and the dead murderers as Shaheed (Martyrs) and Moderate Muslims response has been a feeble silence.

There are plenty nice Muslims, peaceable, decent human beings but they seem unwilling or unable to put their house in order.



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 02:00 AM
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reply to post by Ersatz
 


yes

posting a whole paragraph to one of your lines
you posted is nit picking mmmmh

sure

the other links are there for show.
but what the hell do as you please.


edit:

for the rest of the stuff you posted (just now) use ATS search
im not going through all that again for you

as in explaining those verses

[edit on 17-8-2008 by bodrul]



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 02:09 AM
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reply to post by bodrul
 


bodrul - I think there is some useful dialogue happening here as well as some talking at cross-purposes.

Would you be prepared to address Ersatz' point about radicals increasingly gaining the upper hand, while moderates are sometimes seen as not prepared to speak out against violence? Is it perhaps, as some allege, the result of intimidation and threats from within the community?



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 02:29 AM
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reply to post by pause4thought
 


this has been addressed before
quick search in google or ATS

and it has been said in countless topics
moderates speak out and do hold rallies
but majority of the time air time is for radicals as they get more ratings



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 02:38 AM
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reply to post by bodrul
 


OK, that is a fair response, especially with respect to Iran.

For the sake of being balanced, I'll be more specific. Are the moderate voices speaking out in the UK? Do you have specific evidence of this?

I ask because I have been taken aback by how many UK-based ATS-ers believe what Ersatz has said: that the radicals have taken over to such an extent that the indigenous population is losing respect for the entire Muslim community.

Obviously this is a huge issue, and if you don't have time to post an immediate response that is understandable.



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 07:10 AM
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reply to post by pause4thought
 


I do for one

they muslim popluation in general have, in my opinion, an almighty arrogance.

This is fueled the same as the issue of yobbish and violent behavior of teenagers and young adults.

the fuel? PC correctness they know they are untouchable and can shout abuse whenever someone disagrees. It doesn't help when you see money being spent on muslim suburbs by the council and not elsewhere also.

i lived in Sheffield for many years, i have seen that arrogance grow.

David



[edit on 15/08/2008 by drevill]



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 07:28 AM
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Originally posted by bodrul

this has been addressed before
quick search in google or ATS

and it has been said in countless topics
moderates speak out and do hold rallies
but majority of the time air time is for radicals as they get more ratings


Bodrul,

The Quran commands that you :

5:51 O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.

Why are you telling us you are a Muslim and how good your faith is when you yourself do not follow your own God's instructions ?

I suspect you are a Missionary for Islam and are here to make converts by telling people half truths.

[edit on 17-8-2008 by asala]



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 07:32 AM
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Originally posted by pause4thought


Would you be prepared to address Ersatz' point about radicals increasingly gaining the upper hand, while moderates are sometimes seen as not prepared to speak out against violence? Is it perhaps, as some allege, the result of intimidation and threats from within the community?


According to the Quran, we are Disbelievers,Infidels, Kafirs.

I did not know I was a Kafir until I read the Quran, I did not know that a Book stored so much hate towards Disbelievers until I read the Muslims Holy Book.

I realized that I was hated by people I did not even know!

Westerners do not have a derogatory term for Muslims.

For the Muslims, Allah is wise, forgiving, knowing, and so forth. But Allah hates us, non Muslims.

Allah calls all non Muslims kafirs. Then he goes ahead to tell the Muslims what filthy scum they are.

The word "kafir" is one of the worst word in the human language. No other pejorative is so sly, cruel, bigoted, insulting, and hateful as kafir. Why? It is not just the Muslim who believes this, but Allah, himself.

Allah has thus created the root of Enmity .

This is the saddest part of Islam. Islam rejects the bond of love between humans and substitutes submission, retaliation and other forms of dominance by the "best of people". The Koran, Sira and Hadith say that Muslims are better than Kafirs in every way, and that they are an enemy of all Muslims. It also says that Islam must submit other cultures over time.

Islamic logic includes insults because it is dualistic. Mohammed insulted the kafirs as well.
Muslims know insults are an example of the "ad hominem" fallacy, attacking the person, instead of the idea. This is contradictory. Muslims hold two opposite "truths" in their mind at the same time. He does not see the compartmentalization and dualism of his own mind.

The divided Koran, the Koran of Mecca and the Koran of Medina, is the foundation of dualism. The two Korans are in contradiction, but Islam considers them both to be true.

Dualism affects all Muslims. It creates a lack of empathy with the suffering of the kafir and an inability to see how the Koran is filled with hate for them. Kafirs are not really humans in the eyes of Islam. There is a complete lack of empathy.

Allah is dualistic—he contradicts himself, but he is a perfect god. Therefore, the Koran is filled with contradictions and both sides of the contradiction are true.

Islam defines a dualistic morality and a dualistic logic that creates a civilization completely outside of kafir civilization. To try to apply kafir logic to eliminate contradictions about the Koran and Mohammed is to miss the point. Islam is inherently contradictory, that is its nature.

Let's take the concept of integrity. In kafir ethics integrity is a high measure of character. It means that words and actions should be consistent at all times. Integrity is a measure of unity and lack of contradictions.
You can trust a man with integrity.

But, Islamic ethics allow the Muslim to lie or tell the truth to the kafir. [Mohammed consistently told his jihadists they could lie and deceive the kafirs to advance Islam.] Islam's ethical values permit and incourages deceit.
The most common Islamic deceit is to only speak of the Koran of Mecca and equivocate about the Koran of Medina. Speaking half-truths is a lack of integrity, but it is not a fault in Islam. Mohammed had no integrity with respect to the kafirs, only with Muslims.

Kafirs see a contradiction in Mohammed being such a violent man and yet being called a prophet of a loving god. Muslims see this as a bountiful generosity of ethical choices Allah sets forth. They can be violent and peaceful.
Muslims can have their cake and eat it too.
They can choose peace and war and both are sacred choices. Islam offers a bounty of moral choices in its dualistic ethics.

If the Koran were to be reformed by removing hatred towards the kafir 61% is eliminated. Of course that destroys the Koran.

80% of the world population is labelled as Kafir and hated by the Muslims for no other reason than they have to follow Allah's instructions and Mohammed example.

And there is no mechanism for reform.

There is no body or group that could vote or agree on any change.

There is no way to control it. It has no center.


Let Sister Bodrul point us to some verses in the Quran that promote Universal Brotherhood/Sisterhood.



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 07:41 AM
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reply to post by Ersatz
 


Please read this link, that verse is known to be translated not very well.

www.answering-christianity.com...

[edit on 17-8-2008 by _Phoenix_]



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 07:54 AM
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Originally posted by _Phoenix_
reply to post by Ersatz
 


Please read this link, that verse is known to be translated not very well.

www.answering-christianity.com...

[edit on 17-8-2008 by _Phoenix_]


Dear Phoenix,

Spare me the apologetics,

005.051
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.

PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.

SHAKIR: O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide
the unjust people.

These people are the officially accepted translators of the Quran and have been so for a long time.



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 08:06 AM
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reply to post by Ersatz
 

Hey Ersatz!

You seem to have an awful lot of dislike for a word that you don't seem to have defined for yourself properly.

First off, 'Kafir' does not automatically mean 'non-muslim'. I mean, even 'People of the Book' have been separated from Kafir as a group in the Quran.

Secondly, some meanings that may be useful to know. 'Kafir' comes from the root of K-F-R, meaning to 'cover up', or to 'hide' (it was used by pre-islamic arabs as a term for burying seeds into the soil). In the islamic sense, it is used as 'to hide/deny/cover up the truth- that is, Islam. Thus a translation of it would be 'ingrate', or 'rejecter'- and not necessarily a non-believer (one who may not really HAVE the truth).

Thirdly, referencing of Kafirs as a group in the Quran only occurs in 2 places: "Oh ye who disbelieve (kafaru), make no excuses for yourselves on this day (day of judgement)", and "Say: 'Oh ye that reject faith (al-Kafirun)! I worship not that which you worship, Nor will you worship that which I worship. Nor am I going to serve that which you serve, Nor are you going to serve Him Whom I serve: To you be your Way, and to me mine.'"

EDIT: The word used is اوليا (awlia) is translated as protectors, or allies, or helpers, or guarders, or givers of patronage. This can be seen from other verses, where muslims are told not to turn away unbelievers who come to them for protection. Just because something is widely used, doesn't make it right. This is not the first time I've seen mix-ups in those translations.

PS: bodrul is a 'brother', not a sister. As far as I know....


[edit on 17-8-2008 by babloyi]



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 08:37 AM
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Ersatz I gave you the link explaining that verse. Let me show you the MANY verses in the quran that goes against what you believe, PLEASE DO READ, because this took quite some time. Thank you


This goes against what you were trying to tell bodrul, as you can see HE IS following his faith, by being friends with other people of other religions, and spreading peace.
[Quran 60:8]"GOD does not enjoin you from befriending those who do not fight you because of religion, and do not evict you from your homes. You may befriend them and be equitable towards them. GOD loves the equitable."


An example of terrorists, extremists etc.
[Quran 7:28] They commit a gross sin, then say,
"We found our parents doing this, and GOD
has commanded us to do it." Say,
"GOD never advocates sin.
Are you saying about GOD
what you do not know?"


Obvious quote of the fact that people should have peace over other people and faiths.
[Quran 49:13]"O people, we created you from the same male and female, and rendered you distinct peoples and tribes, that you may recognize one another. The best among you in the sight of GOD is the most righteous. GOD is Omniscient, Cognizant. "


Many extremists are like this, but god forbids it.
[Quran 5:87] ... and do not aggress; GOD dislikes the aggressors.


Sounds like what this website teachs lol
[Quran: 7:199] ......You shall resort to pardon, advocate tolerance, and disregard the ignorant.

This REALLY goes against the terrorists views.
Quran 5:32] "......, we decreed for the Children of Israel that anyone who murders any person who had not committed murder or horrendous crimes, it shall be as if he murdered all the people. And anyone who spares a life, it shall be as if he spared the lives of all the people. .............."
[Quran 2:256] "There shall be no compulsion in religion..."


This pretty much goes against the terrorists views
[Quran 6:151] "...... You shall not kill - GOD has made life sacred - except in the course of justice. These are His commandments to you, that you may understand."


An OBVIOUS quote on PEACE.
[Quran 8:61]"If they resort to peace, so shall you, and put your trust in GOD. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient."


NO EXCUSES! you stupid terrorists
[Quran 4:90]"...... Therefore, if they leave you alone, refrain from fighting you, and offer you peace, then GOD gives you no excuse to fight them."

A lot of this coming from dodgy corrupt so called muslims in power, of course it is forbidden
We reserve the abode of the Hereafter for those who do not seek exaltation on earth, nor corruption. The ultimate victory belongs to the righteous. (28:83)

More peaceful quotes
(16:90) GOD advocates justice, charity, and regarding the relatives. And He forbids evil, vice, and transgression. He enlightens you, that you may take heed.

Terrorists, extremists, and those who follow the hadiths even thou it goes against some of the teachings of the quran.
[15:90-91] We will deal with the dividers. They accept the Quran only partially.

There should be NO extremism in Islam, no radicals.
[2:62] Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who (1) believes in GOD, and (2) believes in the Last Day, and (3) leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.

You cannot kill yourselves Terrorists!
[4:29] O you who believe, do not consume each others' properties illicitly - only mutually acceptable transactions are permitted. You shall not kill yourselves. GOD is Merciful towards you.

Each time these terrorists attack they destroy lives, obviously this is forbidden
[2:05] As soon as he leaves, he roams the earth corruptingly, destroying properties and lives. GOD does not love corruption.

You have freedom in islam, there is no need to be too strict, as long as your heart is in the right place.
[2:256] There shall be no compulsion in religion: the right way is now distinct from the wrong way. Anyone who denounces the devil and believes in GOD has grasped the strongest bond; one that never breaks. GOD is Hearer, Omniscient.

Be good
[2:148] Each of you chooses the direction to follow; you shall race towards righteousness. Wherever you may be, GOD will summon you all. GOD is Omnipotent.


Examine yourselves, don't blindly follow others, research yourself
[39:18] They are the ones who examine all words, then follow the best. These are the ones whom GOD has guided; these are the ones who possess intelligence.

Everyone should be judged equally, no matter how rich or poor etc they are
[4:135] O you who believe, you shall be absolutely equitable, and observe GOD, when you serve as witnesses, even against yourselves, or your parents, or your relatives. Whether the accused is rich or poor, GOD takes care of both. Therefore, do not be biased by your personal wishes. If you deviate or disregard (this commandment), then GOD is fully Cognizant of everything you do.


Stop taking peoples rights away! e.g Saudi Arabia and their stupid laws
[11:85] "O my people, you shall give full measure and full weight, equitably. Do not cheat the people out of their rights, and do not roam the earth corruptingly.

Stop blindly following terrorists or extremist groups, or your fathers, learn and research yourself
[17:36] You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them.

Saudi Arabia banned the selling of roses lol, this is wrong we are free to enjoy what god has given us
[7:32] Say, "Who prohibited the nice things GOD has created for His creatures, and the good provisions?" Say, "Such provisions are to be enjoyed in this life by those who believe. Moreover, the good provisions will be exclusively theirs on the Day of Resurrection." We thus explain the revelations for people who know.

Stop following those who are astray, e.g terrorists, or give too much limits to people
[5:77] Say, "O people of the scripture, do not transgress the limits of your religion beyond the truth, and do not follow the opinions of people who have gone astray, and have misled multitudes of people; they are far astray from the right path."
[4:171] O people of the scripture, do not transgress the limits of your religion, and do not say about GOD except the truth….

The Quran tells us of how some humans use religion as an ideological tool in the oppression of others for corrupt and political agendas. But obviously it forbids this.
[3:7] He sent down to you this scripture, containing straightforward verses - which constitute the essence of the scripture - as well as multiple-meaning or allegorical verses. Those who harbor doubts in their hearts will pursue the multiple-meaning verses to create confusion, and to extricate a certain meaning. None knows the true meaning thereof except GOD and those well founded in knowledge. They say, "We believe in this - all of it comes from our Lord." Only those who possess intelligence will take heed.

[2:79] Therefore, woe to those who distort the scripture with their own hands, then say, "This is what GOD has revealed," seeking a cheap material gain. Woe to them for such distortion, and woe to them for their illicit gains.


Fight in defence, but never aggress.
[2:190] You may fight in the cause of GOD against those who attack you, but do not AGGRESS. GOD does not love the AGGRESSORS.
[2:193] You may also fight them to eliminate oppression, and to worship GOD freely. If they refrain, you shall not AGGRESS; AGGRESSION is permitted only against the AGGRESSORS.


At time of war, you must help protect even those of other faiths.
[9:6] If one of the idol worshipers sought safe passage with you, you shall grant him safe passage, so that he can hear the word of GOD, then send him back to his place of security. That is because they are people who do not know.

If god wanted everyone to believe, he could MAKE them, but god wants FREE WILL, so why the hell would muslims force others to believe, like some think, that would be against gods will for us to have FREE WILL, duh
"Had your Lord willed, all the people on earth would have believed. Do you want to force the people to become believers." 10:99.
[18:29] Proclaim: "This is the truth from your Lord," then whoever wills let him believe, and whoever wills let him disbelieve...........
[88:21-22] You shall remind, for your mission is to deliver this reminder. You have no power over them.
[2:148] Each of you chooses the direction to follow; you shall race towards righteousness. Wherever you may be, GOD will summon you all. GOD is Omnipotent.
[ 25:57] Say, "I do not ask you for any money. All I seek is to help you find the right path to your Lord, if this is what you choose."
[74:35-37] This is one of the great miracles.A warning to the human race.For those among you who wish to advance, or regress.
[76:29] This is a reminder: whoever wills shall choose the path to his Lord.
[33:72] We have offered the responsibility (freedom of choice) to the heavens and the earth, and the mountains, but they refused to bear it, and were afraid of it. But the human being accepted it; he was transgressing, ignorant.


Now please Read this, and you will see the truth. Extremists and terrorists are not true muslims, because they are far away from their religion.




[edit on 17-8-2008 by _Phoenix_]



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 08:44 AM
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Those who follow hadiths(which has many corrupt bad rules that muslims follow)are wrong
"Say (O Muhammad), 'Whose testimony is greater?' Say, 'God is the witness between me and you that THIS QURAN was given to me to preach it to you, and to whomever it reaches.' However, you certainly bear witness that you set up other gods beside God (by upholding other sources beside Quran). Say, 'I will never do what you are doing; I disown your idolworship.'" (6:19)

"When you read the Quran, we place between you and those who do not believe in the Hereafter an invisible barrier. And we place shields on their hearts, to prevent them from understanding Quran, and deafness in their ears. Consequently, when you preach your Lord IN THE QURAN ALONE they run away in aversion." (17:45-46)

"We did not leave anything out of this book, then all will be gathered before their Lord (for judgment). Those who do not believe our verses are deaf and dumb; in total darkness. God sends astray whomever He wills, and directs whomever He wills in the right path." (6:38-39)

"Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He revealed THIS BOOK FULLY DETAILED? (6:114)

Among the people, there are those who uphold baseless Hadith, and thus divert others from the path of GOD without knowledge, and take it in vain. These have incurred a shameful retribution.[31:6]

"We have sent down the revelation, and we will surely preserve it." (15:9)

"Indeed, this is an honorable scripture. Falsehood could never enter it in the past, present, or future; a revelation from the most wise, the most praised." (41:41-42)

"Shall I seek OTHER THAN GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed THIS BOOK FULLY DETAILED? ....The word of your Lord is COMPLETE, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words; He is the hearer, the omniscient. Yet, if you obey the majority of people, they will take you away from the path of God. That is because they follow CONJECTURE, and they fail to think." (6:114-116)

"They insist upon following conjecture, when the guidance is given to them herein from their Lord." (53:23)


People who idol worship Mohammed are wrong.
"Say (O Muhammad), 'I am no more than a human being like you. It has been revealed to me that your God is ONE GOD. Therefore, you shall observe Him ALONE, and ask His forgiveness, AND WOE TO THE IDOLWORSHIPERS.'" (41:6)

"Say (O Muhammad), 'If the ocean were ink for the words of my Lord, the ocean would have run out before my Lord runs out of words, even if we supplied twice as much ink.' Say (O Muhammad), 'I am no more than a human being like you. It has been revealed to me that your God is ONE GOD. Thus, anyone who looks forward to meeting his Lord shall lead a righteous life, and NEVER SET UP ANY IDOLS beside his Lord.'" (18:109-110)

Never would a human being whom GOD blessed with the scripture and prophethood say to the people, "Idolize me beside GOD." Instead, (he would say), "Devote yourselves absolutely to your Lord alone," according to the scripture you preach and the teachings you learn. [3:79]



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 09:40 AM
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reply to post by Ersatz
 


1. i am a Male, so stop freaking calling me sister (Bloody pain on ATS when people cant tell genders apart)

so i request that you edit your posts and take sister out


2. i am not a missionairy

3. defending ones faith isnt converting others despite how you like to paint it.

lastly phoenix/babloyi have explained things pretty well.


[edit on 17-8-2008 by bodrul]



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 09:45 AM
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Originally posted by bodrul
reply to post by Ersatz
 


1. i am a Male, so stop freaking calling me sister (Bloody pain on ATS when people cant tell genders apart)


I understand your pain, haha, people keep thinking I'm a girl too, probably because of my avatar.



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 09:59 AM
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Originally posted by babloyi

Hey Ersatz!

You seem to have an awful lot of dislike for a word that you don't seem to have defined for yourself properly.



Thank you babloy, you were always very informative...but instead of addressing the issue you seem to want to steer the discussion towards the significance of a word. Do not pretend to be naive.

If you live in this world you must know that Kafir is insulting and that Allah has told you to hate the Kafirs.

In cultural terms, Kafir is seen as a derogatory term used to describe an unbeliever.

The islamic law (sharia) distinguishes three types of kafirs:

1. kafir dhimmi, a non-Muslim subject of a state governed in accordance with sharia law
2. kafir harbi, a non-Muslim living in a non-Muslim country, and
3. kafir musta'min, a harbi visiting a Muslim country for less than a year.

en.wikipedia.org...


What follows comes from a well known Muslim forum, unlike you they do not seem confused about the word Kafir.

The forum has: Threads: 170,881, Posts: 2,651,565, Members: 37,063.

Section: > Learning Area > Learn about Islam > Disbelievers-Their Characteristics & Status In The Hereafter.


Allaah condemns the unbelievers and warns against their characteristics. He explains in His Great Book the unbelievers’ deeds, the falsity of their belief and their bad conduct.

The Kaafir lies when he speaks and he is arrogant and self-deluded. Allaah says: “The disbelievers are in nothing but delusion.” (Al-Mulk: 20).

Allaah says: “Neither those who disbelieve among the people of the scripture (Jews and Christians) nor the idolaters like that there should be sent down unto you any good from your Lord.” (Al-Baqarah: 105).

The Kaafir plots against the Muslims by night and betrays them in the day. Enmity towards you is vividly shown in his face and his utterances. He bites his fingertips in severe anger against the Muslims and his inner-self is full of evil plans against them. He pretends to be trustworthy and good mannered while he is actually pursuing his own interests. Allaah exposes them when he says: “Hatred has already appeared from their mouths but what their breasts conceal is far worse.” (Aal-Imran: 118).

Following the Kaafir is disgraceful while disobeying them is might.

Kaafirs are cowards in war and a Muslims can defeat them, though the odds are two to one.

He lives in ignorance, lustful desires and errors; he is unguided to means of uprightness; his heart, ears and eyes are all blocked from perceiving the truth, and Satan pushes him to commit sins. His preoccupation and concern is to satisfy his lust and whims, his deeds then become useless in this world and the next. His Lord does not love Him and tells that He is an enemy of the disbeliever.


There is more but that should be enough.



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