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Why Muslims should be treated with more respect

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posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 02:38 PM
reply to post by Ersatz

Hey, when someone calls me naive, and says I am 'unable to cogently refute facts' and 'suffering from some form of cognitive dissonance' and 'refuse to acknowledge reality', I take it as I see it. I haven't used the same terms on you, because I find it highly unlikely that you would be suffering from any such thing, and to say that you are would be somewhat insulting.

I am curious that considering how you claimed I was obsessed with certain 'irrelevant' words and their meanings, it is YOU who still bring up (a faulty concept of) taqiyya in almost every one of your posts directed to me. I hope this short list will clarify and put an end to this particular line of back-and-forth:
* Taqiyya is the practice of hiding the truth about one's beliefs when one needs to guard against what they fear (and there is backing from the scriptures).
* Taqiyya is allowed in Islam (and while some anti-shiite groups may disagree with this, I am willing to accept it).
* (You claim) Taqiyya is the practice of lying when done by a 'true believer'
* (You claim) these doctors were practising taqiyya (although at no point did they claim to be using it, and at no point did they hide their supposed faith)
* Neither were these doctors performing any kind of taqiyya, nor were they following Islam.

You tell me what 'muslims' do, yet considering that one of the major definitions of a muslim would be someone who follows the Islamic faith, where the only scripture is the Quran and the authentic Hadith (which again, some who call themselves muslim don't follow), and also considering that these books disallow certain things, then if a person goes against these things, which is more authoritative on Islam and muslims? The person, or the scripture? Because I can tell you the exact opposite: Muslims say the use of kafir for all non-muslims is incorrect, muslims make friends with non-muslims, and they don't disguise or nurse any such hatred, etc.

Originally posted by Ersatz
Islam, naturally, is the totality of Islam, the whole of the Quran at least.
And Wahabism and extremism are part of Islam.

The only way you can have Islam not be extreme is to reject large parts of it, which really would mean it isn't Islam but a castrated Islam.

You seem to be twisting words to suit your own agenda (that some people do wrong things, and since they are a part of Islam, thus Islam as a whole is to blame). Wahabism is heavily criticised, even (especially by) muslims for it's innovations and extremist ideology. One of the early examples in the video you linked to was the punishment of throwing homosexuals from a high place- something which has no backing from the Quran or Hadith (which the Documentary agrees with), and then they attempt to justify it with a passage that translates as calling them 'lowest of the low', when the word in arabic has no connection to height, just character.

The documentary is an video edited in such a way as to have maximum effect desired by the ones who made it. I can make no judgement as to whether or not anybody stood up to question anything, or where the audience was from, or their characters.

There are no high profile protests because the media doesn't care to give it any profile. Why should anyone march on Mecca, when it is not Islam to blame? According to the Quran, there is no such thing as 'moderate Islam' or 'extremist Islam'. There is only 1 kind of Islam, and one of the names for Islam and muslims given in the Quran is "the Middle way" or "the people of the middle way", so 'moderateness' is implied in the definition.

About John Quincy Adams, he was not a muslim, didn't seem to have any close muslim connections, and while he appears to have travelled quite a bit, I see nowhere in any of his biographies mention of any visit to 'the middle east' or 'the orient' or any 'mohammaden country'. He studied at Leiden University, and also at Harvard University, but it seems he studied law, and nothing about the Islamic religion. How was he informed about islam?

As for your claim that Khomeini's word still being unchallenged and undisputed in the Muslim world....I really don't know what to say. Where on earth did you get this absurd piece of information? From some shrine to Khomeini? During his life, as well as after his death, there was lots and lots and lots of opposition (both shi'a and sunni) to much of what he says. Khomeini is famous for only one reason: His role in the Islam Revolution in Iran, and his leadership of Iran.

[edit on 6-9-2008 by babloyi]

posted on Nov, 7 2008 @ 06:44 PM
I get the impression we've had a significant influx of new members in recent times. It would be interesting to hear their take on this subject.

In fact anyone inclined to throw their thoughts into the ring in order to join this open debate on the West's attitude to people of a Muslim background - would be most welcome. Hopefully the tone of frank yet generally respectful discussion might be continued.

I feel I've learned quite a lot from this. Some searching questions have been posed to date, and many answers have been of a high calibre.

posted on Nov, 11 2008 @ 03:45 PM

I've tried many times to put myself in their shoes and I for one can't understand why they would prefer to raise their children to wage Jihad against the infidel which, if unless you are Muslim, includes you. I would never teach my kids to strap on explosives to kill anyone, even anyone I would consider my enemy.

I'm a Muslim, and it is for the reason above that most people in western societies are ignorant of our religion and culture.

I have never been brought up to wage jihad or any other form of violence on anyone in any land. I have never even met such a person that has been brought up this way either, even though I live in Saudi Arabia. This misconception has been promoted by the western media outlets(especially after 9/11) and terror organizations that use the name of Islam to commit such acts.

I repeat, we are human beings, with families, friends and children. We are NOT brought up with these concepts. At least 90% of the Muslim world are peaceful and mind their own business, as we all have our own lives to worry about in the process anyways.

The American government and it's puppet media outlets would like nothing more than for you to think that we(Muslims) consider westerners/christians our infidels. Hence they have you believe that we're all enemies, thus justifying their wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Bin Laden is not supported by the Muslim world. Most of us hate him for what he did to our reputation. He is a rebel with political goals, possibly funded and supported by the CIA and uses the names of Islam and God to recruit uneducated religious extremists(a minority) to perform terrorist acts. What better form of recruitment is there than using the name of God or Religion?

And just to clarify something... The word Jihad does not mean killing infidels. Jihad actually means "to strive". So the word can be applied to anything.. like striving to learn, or striving to survive, or striving to get somewhere and so on.. It certainly doesn't mean "striving to kill"

I hope I've made a difference to someone in this world.

posted on Dec, 23 2008 @ 02:50 PM
reply to post by pause4thought

Thank you P4T...

BEautiful and well put.

I will join you


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