Shroud of Turin: Materiel Evidence - VIDEO

I recently watched a new video about the Shroud of Turin. This video discusses new ideas that call the 20 year old C14 dating results into question.

C14 dating says the Shroud comes from 1325 AD +- 65 years.
Contamination by atmospheric C14 as Carbon Monoxide may have skewed test.
A new test it pending to verify or disprove that date.

Personally, I've always had my doubts about the C14 results.

This video brings out several details about the Shroud that are new. Continuing research has resulted in evidence that, in my mind, confirms it's authenticity. I don't think a forger would have thought to include certain things.

Highlights
Negative image: VERY difficult for an artist to fake. No one even knew what a negative image was until photography.
3D quality of image: Again VERY difficult to fake.
No binder present: The image can't be paint.
Image on surface only: Can't be a scorch.
Real Blood: Type AB.
Body was wrapped in shroud: Held by strip of cloth.
Cloth strip sewn back to edge: No forger would ever have thought to do this.
Wounds through wrist and heel: Exactly where a real crucification would be. Art places wounds in palms and feet.
Pray Manuscript: Reliably dated to 1196. Depicts burial of Jesus. Has details that might tie it to Shroud of Turin.
In 1204 AD A Shroud of Christ is on display: It was said to have been "Lifted Up" on every Friday.
Fold marks: The pattern isn't consistent. Suggests storage in a device used to display Shroud.
Man of Sorrows: Art depicting crucified Jesus that has similarities to Shroud. Image shown coming out of a box.
Storage theory put to test: They built a device that is consistent with fold marks that may have been used to display Shroud.
Gospel of John: Mentions burial cloth & face cloth being found it tomb of Jesus 3 days after death.
The Sudarium of Oviedo: Burial face cloth of Jesus. Reliably dated to 500 AD. Has features that seem to tie it to Shroud.
Shroud measures 2 X 8 in cubits: The unit of measure used in the day of Christ.

Google Video Link

I tried to post this in the ATS video section. I think it would be a good addition to the collection. I hope the staff here at ATS agrees.



[edit on 4-4-2008 by LazyGuy]

Originally posted by LazyGuy
Highlights
Negative image: VERY difficult for an artist to fake. No one even knew what a negative image was until photography.

The image is not negative, but positive, however it is best viewed in negative when the poorly painted, atomically wrong face appears. When you take a picture of a henna painting with a b/w camera and look at the negative, the red of the henna will appear light against the background. The paint used on the shroud is indeed henna, a common pigment made from sand/dirt.

3D quality of image: Again VERY difficult to fake.

Not very difficult at all, however the face has his eyes in his forehead, not in the middle of the face which humans have.

No binder present: The image can't be paint.

Henna requires no binder. It's like painting with charcoal.

Image on surface only: Can't be a scorch.

as it would be when painted/drawn with henna...

Real Blood: Type AB.

Wow. This is certainly difficult to forge...

Body was wrapped in shroud: Held by strip of cloth.
Cloth strip sewn back to edge: No forger would ever have thought to do this.

According to the Gospel of John there was a separate head piece. Probably also separate pieces for the hands and feet too as was custom among the Jews. Look at the story of Lazarus and see how he is wrapped in many pieces of cloth. Not a single piece in other words.

Wounds through wrist and heel: Exactly where a real crucification would be. Art places wounds in palms and feet.

Roman crucifiction customs have been known for thousands of years.

Pray Manuscript: Reliably dated to 1196. Depicts burial of Jesus. Has details that might tie it to Shroud of Turin.

Which places the shroud roughly within the carbon dated period.

In 1204 AD A Shroud of Christ is on display: It was said to have been "Lifted Up" on every Friday.
Fold marks: The pattern isn't consistent. Suggests storage in a device used to display Shroud.

Again this places the shroud roughly within the given timeframe.

Man of Sorrows: Art depicting crucified Jesus that has similarities to Shroud. Image shown coming out of a box.

When the shroud was known the Catholic church ordered that all icons should depict the same face with the same characteristics, based on the picture on the shroud. You can normally recognise these icons by looking for a triangular wrincle in between the face's eyes...

Storage theory put to test: They built a device that is consistent with fold marks that may have been used to display Shroud.

The cloth being a relic doesn't place it within the first century AD.

Gospel of John: Mentions burial cloth & face cloth being found it tomb of Jesus 3 days after death.
The Sudarium of Oviedo: Burial face cloth of Jesus. Reliably dated to 500 AD. Has features that seem to tie it to Shroud.

And this certainly indicates the shroud of Turin to be a fake. There was a separate head cloth. How did the face end up on the shroud if the head was wrapped in a separate shroud?

Shroud measures 2 X 8 in cubits: The unit of measure used in the day of Christ.

The cubit is still used today. I use it when I am doing carpentry all the time. A cubit is the length of your forearm. It has been used since ancient times and is among other things the unit used in the Giza pyramid.

Until otherwise proven the shroud is a proven hoax. It dates back to the time it appeared, it contains henna pigment and is anatomically wrong.

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
Until otherwise proven the shroud is a proven hoax.

It's not a 'proven' hoax. It can't be proven to be authentic, but it
certainly has not been 'proven' a hoax. Not at all.

The pollen .. the dated coins over the eyes ... the cloth came from that time period (carbon 14 dating can't be done reliably because of the fire)... the markings on the body match the description ... etc etc

There was one winding sheet - as per usual duirng that time - and then another cloth wound tighter around the head. This is why the head appears to be disconnected and smaller.

There are tons of threads on this already.
I'm not going to repeat information.
That gets tiresome.

It's not a 'proven' hoax. It can't be proven to be the burial shroud of Christ. It is what it is .... a mystery that COULD be the burial shroud of Christ and therefore a wonderful tool for meditation.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
carbon 14 dating can't be done reliably because of the fire)...

When did fire produce or reduce carbon-14 isotopes? This was new to me and I first heard of it when this theory emerged. This is not the issue at all. Fire or smoke will not contaminate carbon-14. However, the people behiund the new theory claims the dating was performed on a piece of the cloth that they theorise was sewn into the shroud in the Middle Ages after a fire which threatened to destroy the shroud. Why don't they rather carbon date the blood?

It is not the original burial cloth of Jesus. Those are probably lost or destroyed by now. And they would have looked strange if there was any image on it due to the globe effect. They probably had artists make better ones through the centuries. This present one was probably done by Leonardo Da Vinci, using a camera obscura technique. That would use chemicals and/or sunlight to dehydrate the surface of the linen. It is the only way to get the details and photograph like image. The linen may be older than the carbon date, but even if the linen is from the 1st century, it doesn't prove when the image was put on it. There are far too many anomalies for it to be a genuine contact on a body image. The head is too small for the body, the arms too long, etc. etc.

Also what is hardly ever mentioned is the image is that of man that isn't dead. CORPSES DON'T BLEED!!! You need a heart pumping blood to produce blood pressure to bleed.

Yes they should carbon date the blood and compare it to the bones in the tomb over in Srinagar Kashmir. Also the napkin that was supposed to be on his face is much more likely to be genuine.

www.youtube.com...

[edit on 9-7-2009 by Sargoth]

either way nothing will happen & you shall never know, as the shroud is locked up nice and safely under protection of the vatican as it should be,