Jesus the Magician?

Originally posted by darcon
if there is some chance that Jesus was a Magician, then Christianity in general would be in jeopardy.

Why is that? How would that change the possibility of his divinity? Is there some restriction that says a magus cannot be divine? I suppose it's possible his "miracles" could have been contrived, or even exaggerated in some way by the writers of the Gospels, but one doesn't follow the other. It's as arbitrary as saying, "well, he's too short, so Christianity is in jeopardy."

How would the status of magician change the message of his sermons and parables? Surely he didn't "conjure" those passages did he?

Whats up everybody, great thread darcon...but I actually started this exact same discussion a while back. Here take a look, its called
Was Jesus a Magician? almost identical

Was Jesus a Magician?

There's some pretty weird ideas in there man......

(Jesus pulls a rabbit out of a hat) Good Stuff
Fox could come up with a great show.... something like
MAIN EVENT: STEEL CAGE MATCH TO THE DEATH
JESUS CHRIST VS. DAVID BLAINE VS. CRIS ANGEL

reply to post by sumperson


Hey man, sorry, did not know there was another thread like this. Everyone should post there from now on, and if a mod roles by, shut this thread down.

I don't think he was a magician, because I don't believe he did all those miracles the bible said he did!! Just exaggerations!

reply to post by Stanley Mimix


Much of the bible is distorted, he may or may not have done those things.

'Magician' and 'Illusionist' conjour the image of an entertainer. If we are to believe the stories of Jesus, I don't suppose anyone would consider that his primary role.

Jesus became prominent because of his accomplishments, not the other way round. He was a well travelled man. We know he spent much of his childhood in Egypt. It has been suggested he travelled to India and Tibet too. He may well have travelled through Iraq where the Sumerians established the first great sophisticated civilisation on Earth. He will have learned much on his travels that would easily impress, astonish and amaze the primative folk of Galilee at the time.

'Walking on Water' for example could easily be explained if you wanted to do a little research www.theregister.co.uk...
It's also worth noting that Jesus wasn't the only one who walked on the water en.wikipedia.org... This would demonstrate a little initiative, nothing more.

I could just imagine one of the Vatican's secret Gospels describing how Jesus covered the Sun with darkness, turning day into night. Edited out of the Bible by Constantine because knowledge of astronomy had already caught up with that one.

Imagine Jesus' frustration at his followers yelling 'Miracle!' every time he did something clever or out of the ordinary. He may well have used the occasional alternative cure or scientific trick to help someone, illustrate a point or to solve a problem.. Why not? He was on a mission.

I'm not a religious person, but with regard to the story of Jesus, what impresses me most and what I carry with me personally, is the simplicity of his love, wisdom and kindness. In my opinion, the conjuring tricks are irrelevant.



[edit on 24/3/08 by Myrdyn]

reply to post by Myrdyn


Thanks for the opinion

(Sorry for the one liner)

[edit on 24-3-2008 by darcon]

reply to post by darcon


Darcon, you don't have to thank everyone for their opinion.

Come on mods... one liners anyone??

reply to post by darcon


Jesus as in a stage magician, I highly doubt it. Jesus didn't have access to the technology that is available to Chris angel. Also folks back then where more concerned with everyday survival than parlor tricks.

Now as in Magician in the sense of sorcery that is most definitely a possibility. He wasn’t that far from Egypt where he may have learned few conjurations and stuff.

Peace
Trustnobody

I personally believe Chris Angel is not really walking on water. If, and thats a big IF, he really is walking on water, then we should pay more attention. I really only heard of this guy through popular media, if there is any truth to his actions, his Christ-like actions, I would think there would be more serious attention paid to him.

reply to post by trustnobody


That is true, Jesus's time frame varies from angels, in the sense of having the tech to fool somebody.

reply to post by branestorm


The walking on water trick, I think Chris uses clear bocks floating in the water that can't be seen, and he walks on them. If you watch his steps are slow and deliberate. As if he is stepping on something you can't see.

Peace
Trustnobody

Originally posted by darcon
So, there is all this talk about how criss angel uses paid off actors, and camera effects to make his tricks seems real.

What of Jesus, was he a Magician/Illusionist?

Present your opinions with a Respectful manner please

hard to compare the two, dont you think?

One is known to preform illusions and simple magic tricks (Angel) The other, well the other was written about 2000 years ago and our information is limited.

One is known to use stooges (Angel) The other, well, we know very little about the circumstances of his "miracles"

One has a team of special effects experts, engineers, make-up artists, image engineers, etc. The other...Well you get the point.

Just because Angel did something in modern times that may or may not resemble something Jesus may or may not have done, does not mean they are one and the same.

reply to post by InSpiteOf


If you would of read one of my posts, it said this is thread is about Opinions, not a Scientific Analysis.

Of course their is no real evidence to support if Jesus was a magician/Illusionist.

Another ponit to be made is that if it occurs on TV is designed to fool you. TV is all about the money.

In real life however, what would be the point in dedicating your entire life to being a charlatan? So that you can be stoned to death for being a fake? Doesn't sound appealing.

No the real man/men behind the curtain so-to-speak were the apostles for fabricating Jesus entirely. Oh they have played a great magic trick on us all.

reply to post by darcon


Actually, Jesus himself said that others would come and do the same stuff he did.

Also at the time many people were performing miracles. The miracles, whether through some sort of psychic understanding or mere trick were not the point, only the marketing.

So it really doesn't matter. I for one believe the man to be an amazing humanist and intellectual. The fact that he performed miracles doesn't really phase me, but I know it phases those who need some sort of "PROOF". Usually those are the ones who don't have the ability to see the logic in his words.

In summary... beware anyone who claims his works were real beyond the shadow of a doubt, because that is not what matters in the Gospel. What matters is everything he pointed out about self and society.

reply to post by Choronzon


Yes, tv is a sham, that's why i have no cable

People sound so freaked out when i tell them that, but i do not have to hear all those bull commercials, and oh my, do not get me started with the elections

Originally posted by darcon
reply to post by Choronzon

 

Yes, tv is a sham, that's why i have no cable

People sound so freaked out when i tell them that, but i do not have to hear all those bull commercials, and oh my, do not get me started with the elections

All you need is TIVO. Tivo removes commercials... it's grand.

Originally posted by darcon
Yes, tv is a sham, that's why i have no cable

So, how did you become familiar with Chris Angel? And more importantly, since the only place I've seen him perform is on TV....wouldn't that also make him a "sham"? Or is some TV not a sham?

And how does the Internet compare to the TV and programming?

Please, someone ask darcon this....he has me on ignore.

[edit on 25-3-2008 by MrPenny]

No the real man/men behind the curtain so-to-speak were the apostles for fabricating Jesus entirely. Oh they have played a great magic trick on us all.

I am not Christian by any stretch of the imagination, but how can anyone prove or disprove the apostle’s account of Jesus? Why would anyone care to so? I don’t believe the OP’s intent was to start a debate or disprove an entire religion. The discussion is about stage magic vs Miracles.

Peace
Trustnobody