So, there is all this talk about how criss angel uses paid off actors, and camera effects to make his tricks seems real.

What of Jesus, was he a Magician/Illusionist?

Present your opinions with a Respectful manner please

[edit on 24-3-2008 by darcon]

What are we referring to here, personal beliefs or scientific proof? If the latter, I can't prove Jesus was anything other than a man who made a lot of fuss around the early years AD. Not even gonna try.

If the former, then I do not believe Jesus was simply an illusionist. I base this on his statements as to the way things really work in the universe (sow what you reap, etc). These have been proven to me, not by scientific means, but rather through observation and inspiration. That is why I cannot prove them to others. Proof can be scientific, requiring experimentation and observation of a repeatable nature, or personal, requiring faith and unique experiences.

As for Criss Angel, I've watched him a few times. Awesome illusionist, although his theatrics are a bit 'dark' for my personal tastes. I preferred Copperfield.

I should point out before I close that I see a divide between the terms 'illusionist' and 'magician', although some do use the terms interchangeably. An illusionist is one who uses illusion and misdirection to provide the appearance of magic, generally for entertainment purposes. A magician would be one who uses arcane arts to accomplish purposes outside of the physical realm.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by darcon
but if anyone has any Scientific evidence, then present it please.

In the case of Jesus Christ...how could anyone present any scientific evidence for your question? How do you imagine that could happen? He's been dead for 2000 yrs., give or take.

What's the point of comparing two people who's lifetimes happen to fall 2 millenium apart? With the accompanying vastness of available technology and media?

I don't think there was plexi-glass around in Jesus' time. Also, Jesus supposedly walked across an ocean not a pool...

And to the OP, I really hope you don't think that loon Chris ACTUALLY walked on water.

Originally posted by darcon


If Angel is really just a good magician or illusionist, then what of Christianity, was it founded a magician/illusionist?

Darcon,

Christianity is based on faith, in my opinion.

From what I understand, Jesus was a teacher that perfomed miracles for people who did not believe what he had to say, or for the people that did not believe he was the Son of God.

Remember the story about the disciple who did not believe when Jesus walked on water? He had to have faith that he could to walk on the water with Jesus too, rather than drown.

That is why I belive it has to do with faith, and not just a magicians tricks.

While I do think that most involved in Christianity are faith based and require no scientific proof, there is always the possibility that Jesus used illusion to gain support and further the cause at the time. While we have no means to scientifically prove if he was just an illusionist I believe all of the mentioned miracles he performed have been performed by illusionists since. Please correct me if I am wrong as I am not active in any religious nor illusionist studies and am going by memory on the subject.

You also have to look at the times and what people were willing to believe and if there was even anyone around that could "debunk" these miracles. If there is truth to Jesus' travels to other regions then he could very well have picked up illusions on his travels and used them in his teachings to reinforce his word and nobody would be any wiser as most probably had not seen the cultures he had seen, nor any of the illusions performed before he showed them.

In this case then there is still no way of proving this other than possible historical records of these "miracles" being performed by others either before or around the same time frame in another region. If historical records indicate that he was not the only one performing these "miracles" then it would lend itself to interpretation that he learned the art from his travels and simply combined all of the illusions in his teachings in a short time frame.

Just my .02

I would say that there was some sort of trickery involved, if indeed Jesus of Nazareth even existed.

It's been postulated that his act of raising Lazarus from the dead was a precursor to his own resurrection, a trial run, if you will. The truth is, impossible to decipher from the legend that has been made of it. Between the oral tradition and liberties that were taken by Bacon and the brotherhood of friars that translated the Gospels, there is no way to know for sure.

Therefore my conclusion is that there is no way to form an educated opinion about this matter.