Jesus the Magician?

So, there is all this talk about how criss angel uses paid off actors, and camera effects to make his tricks seems real.

What of Jesus, was he a Magician/Illusionist?

Present your opinions with a Respectful manner please

[edit on 24-3-2008 by darcon]

Angel Walks on water just as Jesus did.

YouTube Link

reply to post by darcon

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If Angel is really just a good magician or illusionist, then what of Christianity, was it founded a magician/illusionist?

I would like all Christians to come to the table and provide us with what you think, obviously you are not going to say that Jesus was a magician/illusionist, but still, i would like to hear what you guys think.

I would like all people that think Angel is just a Magician/Illusionist, come to the table, and say if you think Jesus was just a Good magician/illusionist, or if he was something else.

I would love to hear everyone's opinion, i think this is a very important subject.

[edit on 24-3-2008 by darcon]

reply to post by darcon

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I've heard it suggested that Jesus traveled extensively within the timeframe not covered in the Bible. Much of his travels supposedly took him to India, where he learned a great deal from various fakirs and gurus.

Criss Angel is a very good illusionist.

What are we referring to here, personal beliefs or scientific proof? If the latter, I can't prove Jesus was anything other than a man who made a lot of fuss around the early years AD. Not even gonna try.

If the former, then I do not believe Jesus was simply an illusionist. I base this on his statements as to the way things really work in the universe (sow what you reap, etc). These have been proven to me, not by scientific means, but rather through observation and inspiration. That is why I cannot prove them to others. Proof can be scientific, requiring experimentation and observation of a repeatable nature, or personal, requiring faith and unique experiences.

As for Criss Angel, I've watched him a few times. Awesome illusionist, although his theatrics are a bit 'dark' for my personal tastes. I preferred Copperfield.

I should point out before I close that I see a divide between the terms 'illusionist' and 'magician', although some do use the terms interchangeably. An illusionist is one who uses illusion and misdirection to provide the appearance of magic, generally for entertainment purposes. A magician would be one who uses arcane arts to accomplish purposes outside of the physical realm.

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck

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Thanks red for the opinion, this is more of, personal Beliefs, but if anyone has any Scientific evidence, then present it please. Star for you

reply to post by TheRedneck

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yes, i say Magician for Jesus(If he was one) because it would be hard to pull of illusions back then, yet it could be possible. But thanks for presenting that, i will fix my former posts to Magician/Illusionist.

[edit on 24-3-2008 by darcon]

In the case of Jesus Christ...how could anyone present any scientific evidence for your question? How do you imagine that could happen? He's been dead for 2000 yrs., give or take.

What's the point of comparing two people who's lifetimes happen to fall 2 millenium apart? With the accompanying vastness of available technology and media?

I don't think there was plexi-glass around in Jesus' time. Also, Jesus supposedly walked across an ocean not a pool...

And to the OP, I really hope you don't think that loon Chris ACTUALLY walked on water.

reply to post by Techsnow

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I do indeed, but that is my opinion, everyone has one.

Darcon,

Christianity is based on faith, in my opinion.

From what I understand, Jesus was a teacher that perfomed miracles for people who did not believe what he had to say, or for the people that did not believe he was the Son of God.

Remember the story about the disciple who did not believe when Jesus walked on water? He had to have faith that he could to walk on the water with Jesus too, rather than drown.

That is why I belive it has to do with faith, and not just a magicians tricks.

reply to post by Enthralled Fan

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Thanks for you opinion enthralled fan, Star for you

Much has to do with faith indeed.

I want to clear this up right now!

Those were all paid actors first off. Do you really think if he was actually walking on water ppl would be cheering?? NO! They would be in a state of shock, unable to speak!

The fact is, and believe it or not, there were square boxes of plexiglass in the pool.

If this were for real, do you really think he would be doing this on TV and not be dragged off to some lab and studied?

I will say this though, it would be awesome if it was real.

While I do think that most involved in Christianity are faith based and require no scientific proof, there is always the possibility that Jesus used illusion to gain support and further the cause at the time. While we have no means to scientifically prove if he was just an illusionist I believe all of the mentioned miracles he performed have been performed by illusionists since. Please correct me if I am wrong as I am not active in any religious nor illusionist studies and am going by memory on the subject.

You also have to look at the times and what people were willing to believe and if there was even anyone around that could "debunk" these miracles. If there is truth to Jesus' travels to other regions then he could very well have picked up illusions on his travels and used them in his teachings to reinforce his word and nobody would be any wiser as most probably had not seen the cultures he had seen, nor any of the illusions performed before he showed them.

In this case then there is still no way of proving this other than possible historical records of these "miracles" being performed by others either before or around the same time frame in another region. If historical records indicate that he was not the only one performing these "miracles" then it would lend itself to interpretation that he learned the art from his travels and simply combined all of the illusions in his teachings in a short time frame.

Just my .02

reply to post by Techsnow

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Your opinion, not mine.

reply to post by Vasa Croe

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Thanks for your opinion, like i said, i am not looking for any scientific proof, just opinions is all.

Star fro you.

In order to determine the likelihood of Christ being a Magus, which is what were referring to I believe, you would have to compare him with other magii from biblical times

1. Simon Magus a gnostic magus.
   
2. Moses who displayed magus like abilities before the egyptian mages. (It was considered childs play to turn a rod into a snake, or water into blood, something which the egyption mages supposedly did with ease).
   Note: Moses was raised and lived many years as Egyption royalty.
   
3. King Solomon decried to have divine wisdom and some say power to control celestial entities through symbols and numbers.
   

...and many more. Some would even say that the magic used by these individuals and Christ himself was quabalistic in nature.

[edit on 3/24/2008 by Choronzon]

I would say that there was some sort of trickery involved, if indeed Jesus of Nazareth even existed.

It's been postulated that his act of raising Lazarus from the dead was a precursor to his own resurrection, a trial run, if you will. The truth is, impossible to decipher from the legend that has been made of it. Between the oral tradition and liberties that were taken by Bacon and the brotherhood of friars that translated the Gospels, there is no way to know for sure.

Therefore my conclusion is that there is no way to form an educated opinion about this matter.

reply to post by Choronzon

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Thanks for the input, it''s nice to know some people take this seriously, as it is actually a serious Question, if there is some chance that Jesus was a Magician, then Christianity in general would be in jeopardy.

But i thank you for the input, star for you.

reply to post by kelbtalfenek

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True there is know, educated opinion, but take a guess.