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Germany Warns China Olympics at Risk (Update: France Considering Boycott)

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posted on Apr, 15 2008 @ 04:40 AM
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Well, the last few posts are hopefully eye-openers or reminders how biased the Western MSM is.

Actually I lived in Europe long enough to understand the practices of Western MSM (and other part of the World's media) very well. And know that on the surface it seems like they are more motivated by sensation and greed rather than ethics. However since I think deeper and love to come to these kinds of conspiracy websites I actually sincerely believe even bigger and evil powers are at play driving these media in the world. For one minute disregard the latter part and keep it at greed, which I have proofed to you now that these Western MSM is biased. (Even by now CNN have not updated their Oman torch relay article)

So why when there is a negative article about China, people like Biggie, Phil, Witness and so on would jump in the thread and posting these links and quoting hugeload of paragraphs? And announce why there should be a boycott etc.

And when the article is becoming more neutral or even non-existing, pretend if these events never happened?

Can't you still not see that in other parts of the world, not only in China, people have different opinions about the Tibet case?

Noteworthy to see is that these pro-Tibetan supporters are now opening threads all over ATS trying to show the world how evil China is. Well considered that Wikilies or a biased propaganda documentary are being embraced as the ultimate evidence of the evilness of China and goodness of Tibet, you can also already see how ignorant people can become when they become true believers in a cause.

For the same money if a Chinese supporter opened a website showing pictures and videoas supporting the Chinese views, or make a documentary about Tibet those are thrown away or being accused of propaganda material in the West.

The only thread who tries to look at the case from a more objective point of view and not created by a Chinese are actually being silenced and the same true believers are ignoring this thread too. I have yet to see one of those true believers engaging in a real debate about the core of the issue. www.abovetopsecret.com...

To sum it up, my criticism is three-fold:
1) Western MSM is bias and plainout lying with a lot of selective convenient reporting, mostly driving by a certain agenda. Recently, starting from last year, you start to see an increase in anti-China reporting, started of with being blamed for a quality issue which was actually more a designing problem of the overseas customer (aka Mattel). The recent Tibet violent riots reporting are the same.
2) Western value-oriented supporters/activists are on one hand discarding any "non-supportive" media and events contradicting their worldview, while on the other hand embracing anything that they can use to support their beliefs. And yelling at anything related with Chinese looking as propaganda, even when an amputee Chinese girl is beinga assaulted by a Tibetan.
3) The Chinese people, at home and overseas, are all being blamed for having eaten too much propaganda fortune cookies, while the main reasons for the growing anger in them are driven by the totally different culture, norms and values, we feel overall speaking being treated with unfairness and unjustice. And not because most of us are narrow-minded. Overall speaking we (Chinese over the world) simply don't care much about interfering in other's people businesses, that's why we hope that people also do not meddle in our internal affairs.

The current Torch relay show to you how the world is structured, and that most of the world do not support the same views as the West. So a boycott or whatsover is totally out of place.




posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 08:27 AM
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French politician expressing his opinion about naiivity and hypocricy.



American Human Rights activist expressing her reason for being a torch bearer in San Fransisco


www.youtube.com...
Political history of Tibet

[edit on 17/4/08 by IchiNiSan]



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 01:44 AM
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Here's something definately NOT MSN, a 7-paged packed article by a notorious believer in conspiracies of the alphbet soup
F. William Engdahl: Risky Geopolitical Game: Washington Plays ‘Tibet Roulette’ with China



The current Tibet operation apparently got the green light in October last year when George Bush agreed to meet the Dalai Lama for the first time publicly in Washington. The President of the United States is not unaware of the high stakes of such an insult to Beijing. Bush deepened the affront to America’s largest trading partner, China, by agreeing to attend as the US Congress awarded the Dalai Lama the Congressional Gold Medal.


Somewhere in my mind I always knew --like with Burma-- CIA (or NED) is beyond any rainbow revolt anywhere, and I think that's what they are trying to ignite here after the relative success they had in Burma.



The background actors in the Tibet “Crimson revolution” actions confirm that Washington has been working overtime in recent months to prepare another of its infamous Color Revolutions, these fanning public protests designed to inflict maximum embarrassment on Beijing. The actors on the ground in and outside Tibet are the usual suspects, tied to the US State Department, including the National Endowment for Democracy (NED), the CIA’s Freedom House through its chairman, Bette Bao Lord and her role in the International Committee for Tibet, as well as the Trace Foundation financed by the wealth of George Soros through his daughter, Andrea Soros Colombel.


The allegations of the fascism of the so-called Dalai Clique has also made me ponder. Knowing Buddhism for 40+yrs, and seeing how it works in a major Buddhist SE Asian country, I must admit with its distance to the individual human being, but rather a spiritual entity that can escape suffering through proper practises, that Buddhism has a touch of anti-humanism to it.

I myself is a fan of anything Tibetean since the age of 13, I have read all the popular litteratur from Harrer's Seven Years in Tibet to Alexandra Neel spectacular accounts, as I of course know Younghusbond's account as a British envoy to Lhasa round the turn of 20th century. Then there's all the spiritual writings to be inspired from Tibetan scriptures.

My fascination never gave much thought to the social conditions on "The Roof of the World," from the accounts I read I assumed them happy eating their tsampa and rancid butter tea. Of course they can't fully be so now-a-days knowing a world of temptations, unlimited consumerism is out there, brought to their door by the newly build railroad and a global network of mass communication.

A fact this has made me aware, is the diplomatic connection the nazi reign held with the Tibetan clergery during the war. The description here given of Harer would had made any Brad Pitt obsolete.



The Dalai Lama travels in what can only be called rather conservative political circles. What is generally forgotten today is that during the 1930’s the Nazis including Gestapo chief Heinrich Himmler and other top Nazi Party leaders regarded Tibet as the holy site of the survivors of the lost Atlantis, and the origin of the “Nordic pure race.”

When he was 11 and already designated Dalai Lama, he was befriended by Heinrich Harrer, a Nazi Party member and officer of Heinrich Himmler’s feared SS. Far from the innocent image of him in the popular Hollywood film with Brad Pitt, Harrer was an elite SS member at the time he met the 11 year old Dalai Lama and became his tutor in “the world outside Tibet.” While only the Dalai Lama knows the contents of Harrer’s private lessons, the two remained friends until Harrer died a ripe 93 in 2006.1

That sole friendship, of course, does not define a person’s character, but it is interesting in the context of later friends. In April 1999, along with Margaret Thatcher, and former Beijing Ambassador, CIA Director and President, George H.W. Bush, the Dalai Lama demanded the British government release Augusto Pinochet, the former fascist dictator of Chile and a longtime CIA client who was visiting England. The Dalai Lama urged that Pinochet not be forced to go to Spain where he was wanted to stand trial for crimes against humanity. The Dalai Lama had close ties to Miguel Serrano2, . of Chile’s National Socialist Party, a proponent of something called esoteric Hitlerism. 3


The article I found in this BAN op, Washington Plays 'Tibet Roulette' with China

It's a dangerous game Washington is playing, but again it's just another one about the last ressources, beside oil, here's also precious minerals in an abundence not seen anywhere else on the planet.

That's why they play the high game of destabilition up to a a major prestige building event in the collective mind of China since the Opium Wars. Playing with the fire of the dragon.



As in the other recent Color Revolutions, the US Government is fanning the flames of destabilization against China by funding opposition protest organizations inside and outside Tibet through its arm, the National Endowment for Democracy (NED).

The NED was founded by the Reagan Administration in the early 1980’s, on the recommendation of Bill Casey, Reagan’s Director of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), following a series of high-publicity exposures of CIA assassinations and destabilizations of unfriendly regimes. The NED was designed to pose as an independent NGO, one step removed from the CIA and Government agencies so as to be less conspicuous, presumably. The first acting President of the NED, Allen Weinstein, commented to the Washington Post that, “A lot of what we [the NED] do today was done covertly 25 years ago by the CIA.” 6



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 10:24 AM
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reply to post by khunmoon
 


If the CIA is somehow involved, and I think they are I doubt the CIA knows exactley why. The CIA is a bunch of goons doing what they are told. The last CIA director that knew any of the worlds secrets was Bush.

China occupies Tibet for the resources, our home grown elite are there for other reasons. I leave an article on Shambala www.freebsd.nfo.sk... I think that the secrets of Tibet frighten the Chinese and so Genocide would be the only remedy.

Then there is the 33rd degree parallel line that runs right through Irag all the way over to Tibet... and then there are all of those other 33's.

We just had another earthquake here.



[edit on 18-4-2008 by Witness2008]



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 01:07 PM
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If we don't focus on the economy, if we don't pay enough attention to the banking crisis, especially, if, at this time, we try to confront China,
we would very probably see a weak USA very soon.

The only solution is to work together with China to fix the problems. no other choice.

Nobody can expect full cooperation from China and at the same time, try so much China-bashing activities.



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 10:59 PM
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reply to post by khunmoon
 


Hi Khunmoon,

This is widespread article now on the Net and even in ATS in other threads, yes, I am one of the one to be blamed for it


You are getting more respect from me for being more and more open minded into the possibilities of foreign involvements in Tibet and other causes for the recent riots/unrest/protests in Tibet, when I remember very well several pages ago we were still arguing if the CIA/NED connection should be discussed here or not


This reminds me of a recent article from a Chinese student who was very active in "helping the Chinese students of Tienanmen"
From the “Tiananmen Massacre” to the "Lhasa Protests” It was like a deja vu for when I was a student and never thought about returning to China. I was like 10 and for the first time having my holidays in Hong Kong during that Tienanman, so it affected my thoughts about China for at least untill my 15th when I went to HK for the second time for holidays. Somehow from Hong Kong I started to dig into the actual event, and start to notice so much conflicting information from a variety of sources and even started getting in contacts with "Chinese refugees", which are giving mixed up information too, some even admitted that they used the opportunity simply to leave the country for a better economic situation. After another 1-2 years I came to the conclusions that what I always was led to believe could be twisted and romantized (some even plainout propaganda, and not only Chinese side). That's why I became much more skeptical about anything I read, hear and see. (Note. This is why you won't see me often in threads with topics which interests me, simply because usually I am too skeptical and feel don't know enough to give my opinion.)

There are several more interesting articles trying to analyze the roots of the recent unrests and the uneasy Sino-Western(American &co) relations.

China and America: The Tibet Human Rights PsyOp

The Sino-American Relations in the Future

The Depressed Superpower

In another thread I have participated and in 1 post compiled a list of articles which I try to avoid any Chinese sources Whats the Truth about Tibet?



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 11:09 PM
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Originally posted by Witness2008
If the CIA is somehow involved, and I think they are I doubt the CIA knows exactley why. The CIA is a bunch of goons doing what they are told. The last CIA director that knew any of the worlds secrets was Bush.

Hey for the first time I see that you acknowledge the possibility of foreign influences affecting the Tibet events.



China occupies Tibet for the resources, our home grown elite are there for other reasons. I leave an article on Shambala www.freebsd.nfo.sk... I think that the secrets of Tibet frighten the Chinese and so Genocide would be the only remedy.

Then there is the 33rd degree parallel line that runs right through Irag all the way over to Tibet... and then there are all of those other 33's.

We just had another earthquake here.

[edit on 18-4-2008 by Witness2008]



I will adress the so-called genocide first. What you have to remember that in China there are like 56 ethnic groups, so-called nationalities, 95% of it are Han Chinese, who obviously enjoyed mating and making babies more than any other ethnicies in the world
Anyhow What I want to say is that if Chinese people are aiming at genocide and want to extinct the 55 minorities (which some are in the amounts and millions which could as well be a country of its own), then you can be guaranteed that there were much less than 56 nationalities inside China.

Secondly, regarding the Sambala, this is a very interesting article and add to the romantizing of the Tibet story. Like I mentioned so many times before, I see that westerners have an idea that it is an utopia in Tibet, a dream, full of mysteries and secrets to be discovered, and to be used to save mankind from her own destructions.

Nonetheless, the conspiracy theory you just raised up is something very interesting which I would sincerely like to hear more about. Could you care to share more sources?



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 06:12 AM
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The Hypocrisy and Danger of Anti-China Demonstrations


We hear that Tibetans suffer “demographic aggression” and “cultural genocide”. But we do not hear those terms applied to Spanish and French policies toward the Basque minority. We do not hear those terms applied to the US annexation of the Kingdom of Hawaii in 1898. And Diego Garcia? In 1973, not so long ago, the UK forcibly deported the entire native Chagossian population from the Indian Ocean island of Diego Garcia. People were allowed one suitcase of clothing. Nothing else. Family pets were gassed, then cremated. Complete ethnic cleansing. Complete cultural destruction. Why? In order to build a big US air base. It has been used to bomb Afghanistan and Iraq, and soon maybe to bomb Iran and Pakistan. Diego Garcia, with nobody there but Brits and Americans, is also a perfect place for rendition, torture and other illegal actions.


It is a pity though that the author started off with a summary of some Western samples, which most likely would have scared away many, and labelled as anti-West insetad of addressing the consequences of fueling anti-China sentiments.


The Chinese government is responsible for the well-being and security of one-fourth of humanity. Race riots and rebellion cannot be tolerated, not even when done by Buddhist monks.

Chinese Civilization was already old when the Egyptians began building pyramids. But the last 200 years have not gone well, what with two Opium Wars forcing China to import drugs, and Europeans seizing coastal ports as a step to complete colonial control, then the Boxer Rebellion, the collapse of the Manchu Dynasty, civil war, a brutal invasion and occupation by Japan, more civil war, then Communist consolidation and transformation of society, then Mao’s Cultural Revolution. Such events caused tens of millions of people to die. Thus, China’s recent history has good reasons why social order is a higher priority than individual rights. Race riots and rebellion cannot be tolerated.


Short summary of and adressing why social unrest can not be tolerated, and at all costs stability and order need to be maintained in this developing country. The author goes on with some real facts and examples of how the minorities in Chinese are treated. These can be verified and is all true to the level that minorities are actually even taken care of by the authorities. This positive discrimination cause some uneasy and unsatisfaction by many Han Chinese though, nonetheless the Hans learned to learn with it. That's why the anger among Han Chinese were great when it is known that the Hans were targetted by violent rioters.


National boundaries are not natural. They all arise from history, and all history is disputable. Arguments and evidence can always be found to challenge a boundary. China has long claimed Tibet as part of its territory, though that has been hard to enforce during the past 200 years. The Dalai Lama does not dispute China’s claim to Tibet. The recent race riots in Tibet and the anti-Olympics demonstrations will not cause China to shrink itself and abandon part of its territory. Rioters and demonstrators know that.


I'm not so sure if rioters and demonstrators know that at all, the intensity and the trance many (violent) protestors get in when demonstrating, it seems like these people lost their mind and can go very far in trying to achieve what they want.


These demonstrations do not serve Tibetans, but rather use Tibetans for ulterior motives. Many Tibetans, therefore, oppose these demonstrations. Many Chinese remember their history and see the riots in Lhasa and subsequent demonstrations as another attempt by foreign powers to dismember and weaken China. There is grave danger that Chinese might come to fear Tibetans as traitors, resulting in wide spread anti-Tibetan feelings in China.

....

Hopefully, the Chinese government and the Chinese people will see Tibetans as victims of foreign powers rather than agents of foreign powers. However, if China reacts like other nations have in history and starts systematic severe repression of Tibetans, then today’s demonstrators should remember their role in causing that to happen.


This last part is the main reason for me to use this article to write this post.

If you look around, there is an overall believe that only a few thousands, small minority, of the Tibetans are being used by Western powers. The Chinese people don't see the Tibetans as traitors (yet), except for those participated in the violent riots and outside China. What the author neglect to see is that not anti-Tibetan feelings are increased, but rather anti-Western sentiments. I wish he could have spend more of his analyis to adress the current development in increasing anti-Western sentiments in China.

These anti-Western sentiments are increasing with the day, and with every single new incidents. Either it be a commentator of CNN miss-spoke (deliberately or not) himself causing an even wider spread of anti-CNN hatred, or scapegoating the French retailer Carrefour's for finding a target to express the intense anger by the ordinary people causing thousands of Chinese people on the street protesting in front of the Carrefour hypermarkets doors all over the country.

Chinese protest Tibet independence, slam France - Yahoo! News
If I show you some Chinese sources you will see even worse scenes.

I'm afraid certain evil powers have achieved what they might have intended to achieve. Anti-China sentiments in the Western World AND Anti-Western sentiments on the Chinese people all over the world. The pro-Tibetan protestors will be remembered in history for having caused this further gap in cultures and maybe . started something more horrific to follow in the near future between the West and East.






[edit on 20/4/08 by IchiNiSan]



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 12:42 AM
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reply to post by khunmoon
 


For your information, I see that several English-written Chinese newspaper in mainland China and Hong Kong have dedicated full pages to the whole Engdahl's "Tibet Roulette" article in the Newspaper, simply copy/pasting excerpts or making translations and with here and there some editor's notes criticizing the Western media and the foreign involvements.

Roulette is an extremely dangerous game to play, it is backfiring....



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 09:41 PM
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reply to post by IchiNiSan
 


Honestly, I can tell you one thing Ichi, and that is no one --on ATS-- has ever made me change my opinion on a basic subject like you have on the Tibet issue.

First of all because your well-tempered mode of arguing and the quality of your supporting links. Let me just say I was happy to find the picture of PLA soldiers holding monk's ropes and a proper explanation of what it actually shows. Yes, I have been tempted to bring it, but with no clear credits to what, where and when I've refrained. Knowing its story now, I can see it was mostlikely picked by the psy-op strategist of Pentagon and distributed to MSM.

Also to learn about the (well) treatment of minorities in China confirms what I have heard from oral sources as well as some pretty biased ones here in Thailand. Now I'm not one to easily believe everything I hear unless I can confirm it by my own sightings or studies, and I've gathered quite a bit of knowledge about the treatment of ethnic minorities in Thailand, and that ain't pretty. In short they are denied citizenship, even IDs, practically leaving them without any legal protection whatsoever.

Simply, the way Thais treat Akhas, Karens, Lahus, Mien and Hmongs are beyond any human decency, in conflict with any charter or convention on humanity and minorities ...though they have signed them all. They should be kicked out of UN. It's fascism and discremination they practise, not because of any politics, but because it is seeded deep in their corrupted souls of selfglorification. Centuries of a corrupted Buddhist teaching have brought them there.

I have spend some time with the Akhas in the North and I have heard the stories of how much better they are treated in Yunnan and even Laos. Now I have some documentation for that and I wanna thank you for providing it, IchiNiSan.

I have made a desktop image from a map of the density of Han-Chinese by merging it with a map of greater East Asia. It has made an interesting image showing how the ethnic minorities like a wedge swarm far up in China. That, plus learning about the favorable policies of CCP towards minorities sure has made me change my mind.




posted on Apr, 22 2008 @ 10:23 PM
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Neat map! It might even do you good that the one-child policy does not apply to minorities in China. Thank you for your kinds words and appreciation. I am just trying to tell another side of the story, because I believe the systematic biased media is giving a coloured picture of many people of the world.

This drag me to another point very interesting and maybe not too many people have looked into it. What is the actual scale of anti-China protests in London, Paris and San Fransisco?

Anti-China protests made in USA, not Tibet


Take the events in San Francisco on April 9. The biggest numbers to turn out were not protesters. They were from the Chinese community—thousands according to an NPR report—and came to show their support for China. .....

The anti-China protests were small in numbers. The Guardian (British) reported about 300 in San Francisco; other wire reports said simply hundreds.

The small numbers of anti-China protesters might be attributed to the fact that the protesters claimed to be representing the interests of the people of Tibet, but they were not themselves Tibetan. There were at most a handful of Tibetans.


In the Western world the ordinary common Westerners got the impressions that there were only anti-China protests ongoing. Keyword is "impression", what does a specific News channel want to bring over? Are they only driven by sensation and greed? I don't buy into that.


Maybe it wasn’t the size of the event that mattered to the big-business-controlled media in the U.S., but rather the message.

FAIR (Fairness and Accuracy In Reporting) has documented the censorship that dominates the U.S. media. It is a censorship imposed not by the government but by the owners of the media. The political message of an event determines whether it is covered in the news media or censored out.


Whatever someone want to turn and twist the facts, the facts remain a facts. The fact is that there were only a handful of protests in Kazahkstan, Turkey and Russia. But even then certain Western could have blown to such a proportion in magnitude giving the impression to Westerners who has some sympathy for that holy dude that protests are severe and fierce. Of course when the torch arrived in the backyarden activists are picking up their gloves and went on street. Even then never forget that this is in proportion compared to the pro-Chinese supporters AND indifferent (over majority) public are actually very small.

The difference is that these handful Tibetan activists were very extreme and violent. Giving the Western MSM to fill up pages full of propaganda for increasing the anti-China sentiments. Otherwise how come the usual so-called nonviolent oriented common human rights-cuddlers would not condemn these violent acts but rather keep on cheering them? The same guys and girls (*winking at our candle sales woman*) are becoming extremely quiet when it is becoming clearer and clearer that maybe China is not such an evil. And that the "annoying-Chinese-flag-wavering-propagandists" correctly predicted that similar violent chaotic protests will not happen in the remainder of the Torch relay stations. Maybe China has more friends in the rest of the world than initially thought. Hmmmm, maybe the "impression" and everything what they believed in might be somewhat different from the actual truth about China. (Note: I want to emphasize again that China is not an utopia and not perfect!) Sadly enough you see these people happily opening a new anti-China thread to show the world the "ultimate evidence of Chinese evilness" and keep on ignoring the facts *sigh*

Another older reference one might want to look into how propaganda is spread by the Western MSM, is suprisingly from one of the "evil" Western MSM of Murdoch:

Under Bush, a New Age of Prepackaged TV News


.....

Under the Bush administration, the federal government has aggressively used a well-established tool of public relations: the prepackaged, ready-to-serve news report that major corporations have long distributed to TV stations to pitch everything from .ache remedies to auto insurance. ..... Many were subsequently broadcast on local stations across the country without any acknowledgement of the government's role in their production.

This winter, Washington has been roiled by revelations that a handful of columnists wrote in support of administration policies without disclosing they had accepted payments from the government. But the administration's efforts to generate positive news coverage have been considerably more pervasive than previously known. At the same time, records and interviews suggest widespread complicity or negligence by television stations, given industry ethics standards that discourage the broadcast of prepackaged news segments from any outside group without revealing the source.

....
The reports themselves, though, are designed to fit seamlessly into the typical local news broadcast. In most cases, the "reporters" are careful not to state in the segment that they work for the government. .....

Some reports were produced to support the administration's most cherished policy objectives, like regime change in Iraq or Medicare reform. ... Critics, though, are excluded, as are any hints of mismanagement, waste or controversy.

(Visit link for 8 pages long article)

If the Chinese people are being accused of being brainwashed by the CCP propaganda machines, then Westerners should be even more skeptical that maybe that so-called brainwashed Chinese people impressions are merely one of the brainwashing propaganda results by your own Government.


These people should stop staring at my wavering flag and read my signature for once






[edit on 22/4/08 by IchiNiSan]



posted on Apr, 23 2008 @ 01:23 AM
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A picture that told me more than a thousand words was this one.



Not hard to tell who is the winning side.



posted on Apr, 23 2008 @ 07:08 PM
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It is today that Canberra braced for torch relay



The Australian capital, Canberra, is braced for protests a. of the Olympic torch's latest leg of its troubled progress around the world.

Security has been stepped up amid fears of a repeat of the anti-China protests that blighted relays in London, Paris and San Francisco.

The relay starts within hours but some acts of protest have already started.

Australian PM Kevin Rudd says the authorities will come down "like a tonne of bricks" on violent protesters.

The torch arrived at an air force base in Canberra on Wednesday before being taken to an undisclosed location.

A metre-high wire fence has been erected along the route of the procession, which has been shortened because of concerns about security. Hundreds of police will be deployed.


I predict this leg to be relatively peaceful with probably doubblefold supporters as protesters, like there was in San Fransisco ...and as there they won't get a chance.

Remains to be seen if it'll be with the skyblue Chin escort.



The BBC's Phil Mercer in Sydney says there has been confusion about the role of Chinese guards who are travelling with the torch.

The Australian government has insisted they will have no security role in Canberra, while the Chinese Ambassador has said they may have to intervene if the flame is attacked, he says.


Whatever will be -- for a peachful relay.

[edit on 23/4/2008 by khunmoon]



posted on Apr, 23 2008 @ 07:29 PM
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reply to post by khunmoon
 



Warning against violence, Mr Rudd said: "What I can say loud and clear, if any protester irrespective of their political point of view engages in unruly, disruptive, violent, unlawful behaviour then the police will come down on them like a tonne of bricks.


I'd just like to think that if you're going to protest on issues like this, that it shouldn't be centred around a particular event
Ian Thorpe
Olympian

"Peaceful protest, yes - violent protest, under no circumstances."


Rudd is a respectable man, if Brown, Sarkozy or Bush did make a firm stance, then the violence and chaotic scenes would have been much less in the Western cities.

Typically BBC reporting is to dedicated almost the whole article to the overly negative side of the torch relay. If BBC does mention that there are actually only TWO dudes going to accompany the Canberra torch relay for maintenance/litting/protecting, then I believe the whole impressions of Chinese invasions on the street is much less. (Note. Have not looked it up in other sources, but overheard it on the radio that there are only two "guards" for this relay.)

We have 11 out of 14 stations behind our backs without troubles, now where is my popcorn for this highly anticipated 15th show? Eager to see how Western MSM are going to report.

[edit on 23/4/08 by IchiNiSan]



posted on Apr, 25 2008 @ 07:28 AM
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reply to post by khunmoon
 

This is the whole picture of density of Han-Chinese in China.

BTW, I have been to Thailand, but I didn't find any discrimination there,
at least, Chinese descendants were treated well, right?


[edit on 25-4-2008 by gs001]



posted on Apr, 25 2008 @ 07:56 AM
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Originally posted by gs001
BTW, I have been to Thailand, but I didn't find any discrimination there,
at least, Chinese descendants were treated well, right?
Well.. yeah. Just look at Taksin.

Thailand is practicing a peaceful branch of Buddhism.. very different from that of Tibet. But, depending where you are, discrmination is visible. Especially, in the far south and North.



posted on Apr, 25 2008 @ 07:12 PM
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This is something that came across me. Which kinda express to some extend the voice of the Chinese people. (Please ignore the broken English, as I suspect it was translated by someone into English).


What do you want from Us? - A Poem Dedicated to the last 150 years of this planet. By a Slient, Silent Chinese.

When We were called Sick man of Asia, We were called The Peril.
When We are billed to be the next Superpower, We are called The threat.

When We were closed our doors, You smuggled Drugs to Open Markets.
When We Embrace Freed Trade, You blame us for Taking away your jobs.

When We were falling apart, You marched in your troops and wanted your fair share.
When We were putting the broken peices together again, Free Tibet you screamed, it was an invasion! (Note: When Woodrow Wilson Couldnt give back Birth Place of Confucius back to Us, But He did bought a ticket for the Famine Relief Ball for us.)

So, We Tried Communism, You hated us for being Communists.
When We embrace Capitalism, You hate us for being Capitalist.

When We have a Billion People, you said we were destroying the planet.
When We are tried limited our numbers, you said It was human rights abuse.

When We were Poor, You think we are dogs.
When We Loan you cash, You blame us for your debts.

When We build our industries, You called us Polluters.
When we sell you goods, You blame us for global warming.

When We buy oil, You called that exploitation and Genocide.
When You fight for oil, You called that Liberation.

When We were lost in Chaos and rampage, You wanted Rules of Law for us. When We uphold law and order against Violence, You called that Violating Human Rights.

When We were silent, You said you want us to have Free Speech.
When We were silent no more, You say we were Brainwashed-Xenophonics.

Why do you hate us so much? We asked. No, You Answered, We dont hate You.
We dont Hate You either, But Do you understand us? Of course We do, You said, We have AFP, CNN and BBCs
What do you really want from us?


For a Westerner to fully understand the whole poem, it would require someone to have a VERY open-mind and dig into certain things in history books.

Example 1: "When We were Poor, You think we are dogs."
During the colonial period, "special areas in the major (mainly port) cities were "leased out" to European empirialists. Back then, it was very common to put up a sign in front of restricted areas with "Chinese people and Dogs are forbidden."

Example 2: "When We were closed our doors, You smuggled Drugs to Open Markets."
This line reflects the Opium wars between China and Great Britain. Ironically personally I believe Hong Kong is the eventual winner out of these "colonial territories leasing".

And so on and so on,

A friend wrote something more hilarious in response and I wanted to share it with ATS too


When China was poor, the West was industiralizing and spewing pollution
When China was industrializing and spewing pollution, the West was going environmental
When the West was busy gaining territory, China was busy losing territory
When China was busy gaining territory, the West was busy giving up their colonies
When China tried Communism, the West already abandoned all authoritarianism and went for democracy

I think the problem is... the West is way too trendy!


And for your information, I believe China for once should not follow "democracy"
Too many flaws in democracies, which is bringing many so-called democratic countries at the brink of collapsing.



[edit on 25/4/08 by IchiNiSan]



posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 10:15 AM
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Great poem, you wrote it Ichi?

Anyway, talks about Dalai Lama representatives to meet Chinese officials. Please note the wording "representatives" to the previous prefered "clique."

Here's from NYT

In Shift, China Offers to Meet With Dalai Lama Envoys



Beijing - China appeared to bend to international pressure on Friday as the government announced it would meet with envoys of the Dalai Lama, an unexpected shift that comes as violent Tibetan demonstrations in western China have threatened to cast a pall over the Beijing Olympics in August.

China's announcement, made through the country's official news agency, provided few details about the shape or substance of the talks but said the new discussions would commence "in the coming days." The breakthrough comes as Chinese officials have pivoted this week and moved to tamp down the domestic nationalist anger unleashed by the Tibetan crisis and by the protests at the international Olympic torch relay.

"In view of the requests repeatedly made by the Dalai side for resuming talks, the relevant department of the central government will have contact and consultation with Dalai's private representative in the coming days," said an unidentified Chinese official, according to Xinhua, the official news agency.


Reuters version>
China to meet Dalai Lama aides amid Tibet tension

Maybe dialog will come out of this anyway.



posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 08:50 PM
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Khunmoon,

Not really, I am not as angry and disappointed about the Western world as this "silent silent Chinese", although I share with most of the messages behind the poem. I am afraid this guy sounds like he lost the faith in the Western world, while I have not (...yet).
I just hope the currently still small minority of xenophonics (not the poem author) nationalists in China will not get too extreme and rationality will start to come back in the Chinese population. Especially now the Central government actually got the people's mandate after the recent explosions and awakening of many Chinese at home and abroad, I have the confidence the Central government know what their limit should be and start to work on the mutual understanding between the West and East.

They also tried immediately after the explosions of anti-Carrefour protests in China. That's why top senior French officials came to China immediately afterwards, a lot of highlights on it for them giving the apologies to the amputee torch bearer. Unfortunately the lower-level short-term oriented vote-stealing Paris mayor sabotaged the efforts of Sarkozy by giving the honarary citizenship to the Dalai Lama.

This talking is the latest move for the Chinese government to work on the soothen of the tides between West and East and regain some initiative in the public relation game between the DL and China. However, what you might need to know is that China had been talking with DL's representatives very often and frequent. It is just that not much publicity is given to these kinds of meetings in the West (or the East), because the Chinese style prefer us to keep meetings as low profile as possible untill some real results are made.

This new start of meeting rounds should been seen in perspective as well. It came right after the EU president Barrosso met with Hu Jintao & WenJiaobao. It is more like giving a huge present to the EU and her members, so all the European politicians will have some leverage and room to take off the heat and pressure at home. For the USA and all the other countries idem dito. By the way, note that China is showing the USA that they give this gesture mainly to the EU, showing their dislike of the passed anti-China resolution in the House and telling the USA that China will not bow for the USA but will respect and give gestures to people who are willing to fly to Beijing to talk instead of mindless bashing from a far. To talk with the Chinese you should show respect and sincerity, and I bet that Kevin Rudd had made a lot of behind-the-scenes calls to help to inform those European leaders how to talk with the Chinese and maybe even advised them to fly to Beijing.

It is also very important to see the symbolic values behind this new acceptance of talkings. This also means that the Dalai Lama has in one or the other way showed the Chinese government that "tibet is an inseperable part of China", which was the most important condition for the Chinese government to pick up the talkings again. By having accepted this condition the Dalai Lama also distance himself from his hardliners (YTC), who has even openly admitted and expressed in an Italian interview that they will resort to terroristic suicide attacks. Just hope the Dalai Lama indeed have the control over his whole movements and that most of the YTC members will follow him into the nonviolent and discontinue any violence or terroristic acts.

Now, both parties have gained. The Chinese got her population mandate and satisfying some Western politicians, the Dalai Lama making a firmer stance against his hardliners and have new rounds of talkings a. of him, then the real work should be done. Both parties will have to compromise in one or the other way and add a lot of water in the wine. Let's hope for the best and a start to the new direction.





[edit on 28/4/08 by IchiNiSan]



posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 01:46 AM
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Well, the international Torch relay has finished and the Torch arrived at Chinese soil, first station Hong Kong. Let us give a short recap of the whole relay's results:

Olympia- opening ceremony disrupted
Athens- peaceful protests
Beijing - Olympic spirits arrived, cheerful day
Almaty - Olympic spirits arrived, cheerful day
Istanbul - Olympic spirits arrived, cheerful day
St.Petersburg - Olympic spirits arrived, cheerful day
London - Violence of London
Paris - Disgrace of Paris, half-heartedly efforts by the Paris Mayor
San Francisco - Not as violent, but still a farce
Buenos Aires - Olympic spirits arrived, cheerful day
Dar Es Salaam - Olympic spirits arrived, cheerful day
Muscat - Olympic spirits arrived, cheerful day
Islamabad - Olympic spirits arrived, cheerful day
New Delhi - Olympic spirits arrived, cheerful day - Indian government spend the right efforts!
Bangkok - Olympic spirits arrived, cheerful day
Kuala Lumpur - Olympic spirits arrived, cheerful day
Jakarta - Olympic spirits arrived, cheerful day
Canberra - Olympic spirits arrived, cheerful day - Again confirming Kevin Rudd is a great leader
Nagano - Olympic spirits arrived, cheerful day
Seoul - Olympic spirits arrived, cheerful day
Pyongyang - Olympic spirits arrived, cheerful day
Ho Chi Minh City - Olympic spirits arrived, cheerful day

So that is 16 out of 21 a succesful torch relay where the Olympics arrived in tn town and the people had a cheerful days. Only the British and French police could not do what countries like Australia and India could have pulled off.

For those who are claiming that there were "a lot of protests" in these 18 trouble-free stations, I will refer you to my post tackling the "perception and actual size of the pro-Tibetan protests"

And since the disgrace of Paris/London, you might also have noticed the Chinese all over the world are much more united and patrotism increased in the magnitude. Thank you CNN, BBC, biased Western MSM, Dalai Lama, Merkel, Nancy, short-term minded Western politicians and malevolent evil behind-the-scenes power.





[edit on 30/4/08 by IchiNiSan]




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